[MBTI General] ISFP and ESTP Realtionships

[sulfit]

That's funny because I never said anything about Fi at all, I was talking about Si yet you bring Fi into the matter. It's not Fi that socionics and MBTI stuggle with it's Si. The definitions of Si are different. It's funny how you try and turn things around that you can't explain.

It seems as though semantics and descriptions is something that you can't comprehend properly because there is a clear cut difference in the description of SI in mbti and socionics that are different from one another. Not everybody interprets words in the exact same way both socionics and MBTI are proof of this due to their different modeling system of Jung's theory.

This is a false assumption you can't just assume they operate in the same way, they are two different systems with different meanings attached to them. You have to understand what the theorists are talking about and referencing before you make assumptions about their thoery. If you read the socionics description about it's 8th function you would see that they claim the 8th function (FI in ISFP) is just as strong as their primary(ego) function. MBTI makes no reference of the 8th function being just as strong as their primary. In socionics ISFP DO have FI seen as strong but it's not seen as their primary function. You clearly live in your own bubble not everyone interprets theory in the same way.

*facepalm* Both MBTI and Socionics are describing same cognitive phenomena. The very same one that Carl Jung has elucidated. Apparently you're just too dense to comprehend it.

Yes Si is same in both systems. Socionics Si has a link to concrete memory just like MBTI Si. This has been discussed numerous times on socionics forums but once again it sounds like you're completely uninformed in socionics matters. Here's an educational video for you: http://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...cionics-It-s-All-in-the-Mind?highlight=memory

 

[jixmixfix]

*facepalm* Both MBTI and Socionics are describing same cognitive phenomena. The very same one that Carl Jung has elucidated. Apparently you're just too dense to comprehend it.

Yes Si is same in both systems. Socionics Si has a link to concrete memory just like MBTI Si. This has been discussed numerous times on socionics forums but once again it sounds like you're completely uninformed in socionics matters. Here's an educational video for you: http://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...cionics-It-s-All-in-the-Mind?highlight=memory

If you had any real world practical experience you would see that ESTJs act like supervisors to ISFPS.

 

[sulfit]

If you had any real world practical experience you would see that ESTJs act like supervisors to ISFPS.

I have had plenty of "practical experience" - 7 different jobs across 2 continents, plenty of interactions.
If you think ESTJs supervise ISFPs then you have mis-typed either person.

Neither does it make any sense from logical pov. Here are functions of these types:

ESTJ Te-Si-Ne-Fi
ISFJ Si-Fe-Ti-Ne - where ISFJ is seeking Ti the ESTJ will slam ISFJ down with dominant Te
ISFP Fi-Se-Ni-Te - but for ISFP this is not the case because Te is one of ISFP's valued functions

ergo: ESTJs supervise ISFJs, with ISFP their relations are that of semi-duality (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/89-Semi-duality-Relations)

Before you start another round claiming that socionics functions are not the same, I've already shown in previous posts that yes, they are, which is not a surprise since both of these typologies are based on Jung's functions. The same inter-type relations described in socionics can be also observed in MBTI (and Jung himself, many years before socionics was created, has commented that Te-dominant males get attracted to Fi-dominant females).

 

[jixmixfix]

I have had plenty of "practical experience" - 7 different jobs across 2 continents, plenty of interactions.
If you think ESTJs supervise ISFPs then you have mis-typed either person.

Neither does it make any sense from logical pov. Here are functions of these types:

ESTJ Te-Si-Ne-Fi
ISFJ Si-Fe-Ti-Ne - where ISFJ is seeking Ti the ESTJ will slam ISFJ down with dominant Te
ISFP Fi-Se-Ni-Te - but for ISFP this is not the case because Te is one of ISFP's valued functions

ergo: ESTJs supervise ISFJs, with ISFP their relations are that of semi-duality (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/89-Semi-duality-Relations)

Before you start another round claiming that socionics functions are not the same, I've already shown in previous posts that yes, they are, which is not a surprise since both of these typologies are based on Jung's functions. The same inter-type relations described in socionics can be also observed in MBTI (and Jung himself, many years before socionics was created, has commented that Te-dominant males get attracted to Fi-dominant females).

It's obvious that you fail to see the logical inconsistencies that arise between MBTi, socionics and Jungs theory. Stereotyping has many flaws and holes in it, like broken telephone Jungs thoery isn't properly translated perfectly into each system. There is clear substantial evidence of this by the way each system portrays it's functions. A function is merely a stereotype that tries to explain the behaviors of people. The way one theorist views a concept differs in the way another theorist view a concept, this is the fundamental reason why MBTI and socioncs differ from each other. Both are trying to explain the same thing but in different ways. Jung's theory like any other social science theory can be interpreted in many ways.