[ISTP] ISTP - "friends with benefits" relationships

[cafe]

LOL.

No. you've missed my point. ISTPs live in the moment...so there' s no relationship manipulation like there is with other types...esp the Fs. For us, no relationship ever ends completely. Doesn't mean we keep sleeping with former partners after we start another intimate relationship. After all, we do minimal emotional investing.

As for girls or boys of our deams...ISTPs are not romantics...we don't dream...we are simply with the person of the moment. The whole notion of soulmates is utter nonsense to us. Another NF Hollywood myth.

There is no past, no future, only NOW.

A bit hyperbolic, but only a bit.

I guess I don't actually believe that to be true. It may be true of you at the moment and you may not be able to imagine ever really falling in love with and wanting to settle down with someone and you may never actually have that experience, but I don't believe that, as a group, ISTPs never fall in love and want to settle down with another person or that they aren't willing to make the investment required to build and maintain that relationship, including, but not limited to dropping and reducing/ending contact with former lovers if that's what the relationship requires.

 

[McRumi]

I guess I don't actually believe that to be true. It may be true of you at the moment and you may not be able to imagine ever really falling in love with and wanting to settle down with someone and you may never actually have that experience, but I don't believe that, as a group, ISTPs never fall in love and want to settle down with another person or that they aren't willing to make the investment required to build and maintain that relationship, including, but not limited to dropping and reducing/ending contact with former lovers if that's what the relationship requires.

LOL.

That's not what I said either.

I realize that INFJs have a tendency to want to bend everyone to their internal vision, but other realities exist. I think INFJs invented the term soul mate, so I understand your unwillingness to accept a different reality.

Of course we can fall in love, "settle down" etc etc....but never in the way INFJs do. We are just wired differently. Very differently.

And I celebrate that difference.

 

[lasdf23]

The she devil was right on with the whole thing about just having fun.
Me? I never had a "girlfriend" till I had a fiance and I was 28 yrs old-just girls I was "seeing". Always sucked in the end because of the hard goodbyes-because you don't want to lie but don't want to insult by telling the whole truth.

I can tell you straight out that that's not the case with him. In fact, M had already had a girlfriend (the ex-girlfriend that he had to break up with after 6 months of dating?) that was significant to him, so significant that even after they broke up he kept a picture of her around his personal belongings (I don't know if that's still the case anymore though). That was half a year ago.

When I first had "the talk" with him, he said he "took things too fast." And honestly I think he is confused/needs to sort things out/doesn't want to think about it/or a combination of all of the above, because I can tell when he's around me he wants something to happen but then when I'm not around, he cools off again.

It's such a weird dichotomy with us, I know. But what keeps me so intrigued by him is the fact that I feel this dynamic with him...even when I don't know nearly enough about him! I cannot wait to get to know him better day by day. And I'm learning to be more patient at the same time.

After opening this thread and receiving so many good advices, I can confidently say that what we had was NOT strictly a "fuck buddy" situation, and I wish I had been sure of that from an earlier stage so I could act more naturally around him from the get go. And I will, from now on (I just hope it's not too late...). The fact that he took notice of my vulnerability and took active measures to break it off (though he's broken it once, he seems committed to it) really assured me that he does in fact respects me and is not just toying around with me. Too bad the only place I can interact with him is his house with his housemates and friends around all the time...otherwise I'm certain I can show him a good time besides the physical connection...if he wants to explore, that is.

 

[Chuckums]

You must think I was calling you "the she devil".

It's easy to misread ISTPs-leads to communication problems. I'm not trying to be insulting to you and I have a good idea of what I you are going through.

 

[McRumi]

Truth be told, ISTPs are misread because we suck at communication.

 

[cafe]

LOL.

That's not what I said either.

I realize that INFJs have a tendency to want to bend everyone to their internal vision, but other realities exist. I think INFJs invented the term soul mate, so I understand your unwillingness to accept a different reality.

Of course we can fall in love, "settle down" etc etc....but never in the way INFJs do. We are just wired differently. Very differently.

And I celebrate that difference.

I'm thinking in context of the original post. I'm married to an NT very happily and I don't even know if I would consider him my soul mate, so I'm not sure you can really project that idea onto me or that it's at all relevant to the discussion at hand.

What we've got is a girl (an NF girl) who is in a FWB relationship and thinks she might like it to be more, while the guy says he does not want it to be more. I think it is unwise to stay in such a relationship if she cannot be satisfied with it as it is.

Chances are, if he says he doesn't want a relationship, it isn't going to turn into a relationship regardless of how he behaves or what other things he says that may appear to contradict his original sentiment.

We're talking Ti Se here -- analytical thinking and seeing things as they are (unlike an INTP who thinks analytically but sees all the possibilities and has trouble choosing just one). There is a reason that he doesn't want a relationship. Probably a logical one and that probably isn't just going to magically go away. Of course circumstances could change and his reasoning with it. You just never know.

If she chooses to continue the relationship in the hopes that he may change his mind (and it will turn into a relationship) it could happen, because as you say, ISTPs tend to live in the moment and one day he could wake up and realize he is in love with and wants to settle down with her.

OTOH, there is just as good a chance he could wake up one day and decide he wants to settle down with someone else and she won't hear from again or he might decide he wants to settle down with someone else, but keep her around for sex unless and until he can't get away with it anymore.

Or he could be satisfied with the current status indefinitely or decide he's over it or any number of other possibilities.

If she is okay with that, it's cool, but it's not a comfortable situation for a lot of NFs to be in and, though I have little confidence in my ability to convince, I would like to help her avoid the wasted time and disappointment she's probably going to come to see this as in time. I may not be able to fully get my head around ISTPs, but I have a pretty good grasp of NFs and I have been around long enough to see how this kind of situation generally plays out. It's one of the few advantages of getting old.

 

[McRumi]

ISTJ-INFJ. Oil and water.

 

[Chuckums]

Truth be told, ISTPs are misread because we suck at communication.

So true!

In fact, M had already had a girlfriend (the ex-girlfriend that he had to break up with after 6 months of dating?) that was significant to him, so significant that even after they broke up he kept a picture of her around his personal belongings (I don't know if that's still the case anymore though). That was half a year ago.

If it were me you were talking about, this would mean I had made up my mind that she was "The One", but it would be wrong for me to speak for him and what his feelings were.

Here is an example that may or may not apply here:

The friend of a girl I was seeing years ago became enraged at me-I had hurt her friends feelings because I would not make a commitment or say I loved her. She was sure that I must have had deeper feelings for her friend because I "Acted like this" or "Said that like this" or "Did this".

She couldn't have been more wrong. They both absolutely misread me and were applying their thought process to me.

And then I'm thinking like-"So you can see guys, well you didn't like them as much, then just decide to stop right here with me, and somehow I owe you something emotional because you are feeling these emotions for me? And I'm an asshole because I don't reciprocate? WTF?"

Of course I didn't say this to them, it's just how I thought about the whole situation.

This chick was sure I loved her, and wanted me to tell her the "truth", and her friend thought I must have loved the chick too and was mad because it tore her friend all up inside.

The things I was forced to say to these two in order to keep from hurting their feelings were, difficult, to say the least. I couldn't tell them the truth and I hated that because I am an honest person.

Again, I can't speak for your boyfriend, but I can relate. Some of the things you are saying that he said sound so familiar to me that it's almost scary.

 

[Poki]

What I see here is just an unwillingness for him to "advance" the relationship and her not knowing if she wants to put in the time if she doesnt know if it will advance. They have a relationship, no questions about it. This isnt a decision about having one, its a decision about advancing it and its a give and take.

Honestly, enjoy what you have and move in the direction you want, if its with someone else then so be it, his loss, if its with him then try to enjoy what you have while you are trying to figure out how to advance it.

The best way is to just use your Ni and think of entirely new things and ways to make the situation work that is outside of the norm. I am always open to try anything, but try not to feel beat down if it doesnt work, just make it fun and enjoyable experience that you can laugh about. Keep changing things until you can get it to work.

From personal experience the best way to get me to open up is not to talk about something with me. Talk to me about it and I will start to chime in with suggestions, thoughts, ideas, etc. Be open in both parties ideas and the openness will follow. I also will not follow something if I get the impression you are just trying to get it out of me and you really dont want to do it. Talk about your wants and we can see what will work out. I do this with my wife to see what it is she decides to do and not do, but I dont try to make her feel like she has to do them. Its her choice if she wants to do them.

I will also try to push you in directions I want to go and if you fight it I will back off. I will figure out what you enjoy and like so I may push pretty hard on those things even if you fight back.

The harder you fight to compromise the more I will fight and close off to maintain autonomy between us.

 

[Poki]

ISTJ-INFJ. Oil and water.

They dont mix well, but when used in the right way can make for some pretty interesting results

 

[McRumi]

They dont mix well, but when used in the right way can make for some pretty interesting results

I have a looooooooooooooooong acquaintance with an INFJ. When they aren't saving the world (or thinking they are), they can be quite swell.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

istp =

 

[Salomé]

I agree that she's a big girl, etc, but relationships are not all that cut and dried. I have seen situations where a girl has a crush on a guy and he knows it and makes it clear verbally that he isn't interested in anything serious while all the time playing the girl like a violin -- non-verbally or with mixed verbal signals stringing her along and giving her hope. Yes, the girl is stupid for allowing herself to be played but it is, IMO, selfish and unkind to knowingly do this to someone and I fear that that is what could be happening in this situation.

I can see both sides. But only because he actually said it's "not just a friends with benefits thing". Which does sound like a line...
I still believe the onus is on her though.

You must think I was calling you "the she devil".

I assumed you were talking about me. And I didn't find it insulting.


All this discussion is ultimately pointless though. Because, despite all the excellent insight here, OP manages to somehow convince herself:

The fact that he took notice of my vulnerability and took active measures to break it off (though he's broken it once, he seems committed to it) really assured me that he does in fact respects me and is not just toying around with me.

Despite

Even the last time we hooked up (after we decided that we should work on being friends and NOT hook up), he was the one to make the move. I kept telling him no, you're not gonna get it, and tried to push him away, but he had to be insistent..for 3 hours until I finally gave in :-(

This is why I don't like giving advice to NFs.

 

[Chuckums]

I have a looooooooooooooooong acquaintance with an INFJ. When they aren't saving the world (or thinking they are), they can be quite swell.

The craziest thing I ever did was marry an INFJ! 18 years and counting.

istp =

Wife always says I'm "deranged"

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I can see both sides. But only because he actually said it's "not just a friends with benefits thing". Which does sound like a line...
I still believe the onus is on her though.


I assumed you were talking about me. And I didn't find it insulting.


All this discussion is ultimately pointless though. Because, despite all the excellent insight here, OP manages to somehow convince herself:
Despite
This is why I don't like giving advice to NFs.

We are pathetic in matters of the heart. This is the only realm I wish I had a T switch.

 

[cafe]

I can see both sides. But only because he actually said it's "not just a friends with benefits thing". Which does sound like a line...
I still believe the onus is on her though.

All this discussion is ultimately pointless though. Because, despite all the excellent insight here, OP manages to somehow convince herself:
Despite
This is why I don't like giving advice to NFs.

The onus is definitely on her, but it's sort of like taking candy from a baby.

I wish it was only NFs that were like this. Maybe it's F women in general, I don't know. It's very painful and frustrating to watch.

 

[Intricate Mystic]

In reading through this very interesting discussion, I just would like to point out a bit of a paradox concerning ISTPs. When an ISTP says they "don't want a relationship right now", that might very well be the case, or alternatively, it might be a response to feeling pressured about the relationship at that moment, or even that they have feelings for the person but haven't realized it yet. They take longer than other types to realize they have feelings for someone (as has been pointed out many times on the forum). This is the area that is such a challenge for NF's to deal with. I guess all you can do is go by their actions and forget about what they say, because actions speak louder than words for them. If their actions tell you that they have feelings for you, than you just have to be patient. Love is patient, love is kind.... that's the way to deal with them, I have found (married to one ). Here is a for the ISTPs reading this. I love you guys.

 

[Poki]

In reading through this very interesting discussion, I just would like to point out a bit of a paradox concerning ISTPs. When an ISTP says they "don't want a relationship right now", that might very well be the case, or alternatively, it might be a response to feeling pressured about the relationship at that moment, or even that they have feelings for the person but haven't realized it yet. They take longer than other types to realize they have feelings for someone (as has been pointed out many times on the forum). This is the area that is such a challenge for NF's to deal with. I guess all you can do is go by their actions and forget about what they say, because actions speak louder than words for them. If their actions tell you that they have feelings for you, than you just have to be patient. Love is patient, love is kind.... that's the way to deal with them, I have found (married to one ). Here is a for the ISTPs reading this. I love you guys.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

 

[lasdf23]

All this discussion is ultimately pointless though. Because, despite all the excellent insight here, OP manages to somehow convince herself:
Despite
This is why I don't like giving advice to NFs.

Well, yes true. We always hope/believe for the best in people. If somebody we care about said one good thing but acted the other way, we tend to believe that he intended the good thing he said but couldn't resist the urge to act the other way. And we FORGIVE HIM! (though won't forget). duh stupid me :-( but to us it's ultimately the intention that counts.

Like I said many times, right now I'm at a peaceful place as long as I'm assured that he didn't mean to toy around with me and that he does in fact like me (however little that feeling may be). Yes, I will stop sleeping with him. And yes, I would be incredibly disappointed and offended if he tried to convince me to sleep with him again without entering into a solid relationship. But until he makes the same mistake for the 3rd time (which will be the next time) I need to learn to set this matter aside and go on with my usual life. That's something I can actively do to keep this situation under control.

 

[McRumi]

In reading through this very interesting discussion, I just would like to point out a bit of a paradox concerning ISTPs. When an ISTP says they "don't want a relationship right now", that might very well be the case, or alternatively, it might be a response to feeling pressured about the relationship at that moment, or even that they have feelings for the person but haven't realized it yet. They take longer than other types to realize they have feelings for someone (as has been pointed out many times on the forum). This is the area that is such a challenge for NF's to deal with. I guess all you can do is go by their actions and forget about what they say, because actions speak louder than words for them. If their actions tell you that they have feelings for you, than you just have to be patient. Love is patient, love is kind.... that's the way to deal with them, I have found (married to one ). Here is a for the ISTPs reading this. I love you guys.

Yes indeedy.

You know an ISTP likes you when they start doing stuff for you.

Now here's the weird part...if an ISTP is REALLY into you, we usually freeze....we want to focus all our senses on you so not a thing escapes our attention. It' s very counter-intuitive behavior in terms of relationships. I remember dating someone years ago and all I did was sit and stare when we'd go out to eat. Freaked the other person out...but we ended being together for 3 years.

If an ISTP sits next to you and says nothing but is otherwise ok, it usually means they like you a lot.