[ISTP] ISTP - "friends with benefits" relationships

[Rachelinpa]

You are the only one stressing/agonizing, don't you see that? NFs, why are you always obsessing over this stuff? And why do you ask questions when you don't really want the answers? I don't know how many posts I've read along similar lines. If you are the kind of person who needs a lot of reassurance and stability and emotional support, you shouldn't be in a relationship with an ITP. You won't get what you need and you'll annoy the hell out of them.

um, wrong. that was my female istp friend who was obsessing over the text. not me. although, i am prone to obsession. generally, i try not to take myself to seriously... ha. at any rate, i think you can be "the kind of person who needs a lot of reassurance and stability and emotional support" (i.e. an NF) and be in a successful relationship with an ITP. that's not to say there wouldn't be any issues, but it depends on how much of a priority that need is and where else you can gain that emotional support (from yourself or others).

 

[McRumi]

I have found that most people initially distrust ISTPs.

ISTPS are voracious information gatherers. And yet we give very little information out about ourselves. Many assume we do this to manipulate others...but that is usually other types projecting their own issues onto us. We gather information so we can use it later to solve problems that may arise or to help others out. And we do not offer information about ourselves because it threatens our autonomy which is one of our highest values.

It usually takes a year or two for those who initially distrust us to realize we are not manipulative or cold-hearted at all. But it does take time.

There are some who never see it. But that is because they themselves are lacking in self-knowledge and empathy.

I consider ISTPS to be the gargoyles of the world. We appear frightening...indeed we scare off the insincere and half-hearted (as gargoyles were meant to do in the Middle Ages), but once others get past our unpleasant and stony exterior, they find a vast cathedral of light and joy, that will stand forever and always be there no matter how often they come and go.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I have found that most people initially distrust ISTPs.

ISTPS are voracious information gatherers. And yet we give very little information out about ourselves. Many assume we do this to manipulate others...but that is usually other types projecting their own issues onto us. We gather information so we can use it later to solve problems that may arise or to help others out. And we do not offer information about ourselves because it threatens our autonomy which is one of our highest values.

It usually takes a year or two for those who initially distrust us to realize we are not manipulative or cold-hearted at all. But it does take time.

There are some who never see it. But that is because they themselves are lacking in self-knowledge and empathy.

I consider ISTPS to be the gargoyles of the world. We appear frightening...indeed we scare off the insincere and half-hearted (as gargoyles were meant to do in the Middle Ages), but once others get past our unpleasant and stony exterior, they find a vast cathedral of light and joy, that will stand forever and always be there no matter how often they come and go.

Really? ISTPs are often the most chill people in the room, and I find people feel at ease with them instantly. My brother is one, and some other acquaintances, and that's the overall effect I see.

Contrasted with me, which is, "What the hell is wrong with that guy."

 

[Salomé]

^Substitute "dark, miserable basement" for "cathedral of light and joy" and you could be describing INTPs.

um, wrong. that was my female istp friend who was obsessing over the text. not me. although, i am prone to obsession.

Ah. I apologize. I completely misread your post.

 

[McRumi]

Really? ISTPs are often the most chill people in the room, and I find people feel at ease with them instantly. My brother is one, and some other acquaintances, and that's the overall effect I see.

Contrasted with me, which is, "What the hell is wrong with that guy."

I see your point. I was talking more about long-term situations...rather than momentary social events. It's when relationships, at work or otherwise, begin to develop that the emotional/informational stone wall is encountered.

 

[mcmartinez84]

Um, long post! I had to catch up and reply to things

pretty much. i'm not asking for a lot though. i would enjoy a relationship founded on acceptance (both ways). more or less at least. i'd like to meet someone who gets to know me, and yet still sticks around.. i mean, like, really know me (if i even got to that point at all). what i'm not about to do is play up my good side, or cater to someone's need for a perfect partner or soulmate, or whatever. too much work.. relationships suck because it's easy to get carried away with what's ideal, and not truly accepting someone as they are.

A-freakin'-men. Take it or leave it.

It is a completely casual thing. What part of that have you failed to understand? ISTPs are good at compartmentalizing. Right now, you're just a fun lay he's not going to turn down in a hurry. You shouldn't count on that changing, given the way the relationship started and has developed. If you find that difficult to deal with, you need to think about ending it now. If not, just enjoy it for what it is. The whole "we musn't do this again" thing he probably just views as a challenge/way out when he gets bored.

I agree with the compartmentalizing. I've noticed that it's exactly with relationships that I can do it really well. Or, I guess with *non*relationships. If he's not attracted, if he has a significant other of any kind... It's an instant turn off. There are a few others in the list of instant turn-offs, but those are the biggest most obvious ones. I can have a crush on a guy for awhile, but as soon as I know he's not attracted or that he's taken, the crush pretty much ends instantly. I'm wasting my time on the guy, moving on! There *are* other fish in the sea.

I can detach from feelings and get past things really easily. I can move into the moment very easily and move beyond things from the past in regards to being in the moment. I can do this with feelings toward people and compartmentalize on a situational basis. If you change the situation my feelings and actions will tend to change along with it. I tend to live in the moment in this regard. I can be pissed at someone for something and then turn around in a different situation like nothing happened with that same person.

Yep! +1

My thought in this regard, if your ok, and I am ok, then thats all that matters in a relationship and a relationship is between 2 people.

I like your stance of just accepting the complication instead of arguing about the complication.

I've got a couple of friends who don't really understand that about me. I was telling a friend of mine about a (2nd) date I had recently and he asked me if "yall smooched"...which at this point isn't information I care to dole out to this friend 'cause of how he's used information in the past. He gives me crap about things, and makes fun of things and he's really nosey... The only good solution is to not tell him things. I was (ugh) kinda testing him to begin with by telling him about the date at all...which I feel kinda bad doing. I'd *like* to share these things with him, but he pushes and pushes for information that I'm not willing to give and it's frustrating. At that point I informed him that the smooch status was of no relevance 'cause I thought it was a successful date regardless, while he argued that to *him* it would be an indicator of success...but his rating doesn't matter 'cause he was no part of my date (and doesn't even know the guy).

Actually, that story doesn't really address the compartmentalizing thing. But with regards to that - A while back he was trying to set me up with a mutual friend and he kept asking and asking and asking about how I felt about the guy. I said "Well, I don't think he's attracted to me, so it's really a moot point." And he kept asking what *my* feelings were and I was just like "Dude! Seriously! Not relevant!!!" I couldn't get that thru his head tho.

ISTP's never look for anything serious. That's why we are single for long periods of time. Yes. He stated he didn't want a relationship and I agreed with that. My point was letting her know that just because he doesn't want one doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings for her.

A lot of these threads paint ISTP's as cold and unfeeling. We do feel and have emotions. I would say intense ones. The difference is we just don't feel the need to show, talk about or act on them very much.

Yep. My stance is ALWAYS "We'll see what happens." At some point if I still don't want a relationship with someone it's probably 'cause I'm just not that into them - either 'cause there's someone else or 'cause I don't see it going anywhere with them. I do agree that not wanting a relationship and not having feelings for someone are different things.

That went on for about eight years, and I dated and I FWB...but never brought those up when hanging out and never dissed her in-between. Never once hid the fact that friendship existed in telling my girlfriend of the moment, that I couldn't go out because my old friend and I had plans.

Wasn't ever sure of exactly why I couldn't say to my old friend, I'm dating so and so and...we did this or that or whatever. Wasn't that I thought she couldn't handle it, and/or would reject being friends. Hell I don't know why...[/B]

Y'know, I've had some close friends that there are just some topics we don't really bring up. Girl I've known since I was 5 (so 20 years now)...we RARELY talk relationship stuff. We just check in to see what the status of the other's relationship is. We definitely don't go into feelings or anything. At some point it would be kinda weird to divulge that type of information. Not like it would make me feel awkward or anything, but it seems like it might change the dynamic of the friendship. If I'm happy with the way it is and I have another outlet for whatever topics, then I'm ok with not talking about some stuff.



Last, but certainly not least, regarding the OP... I agree with what almost everyone else has said wholeheartedly. You really need to figure things out for you and not for him. Having said that, I'd quit wasting my time. Sure, it might be fun, sure, he *might* have feelings somewhere, but I'd back off and if he comes back around, then maybe he's ready...otherwise, he's not interested. Stating that I don't want a relationship (as I said earlier in my post) prolly means I'm not into you and don't see it going anywhere romantically. I've said it before and that's been exactly the case for me. It's not a particularly easy thing to say when I know the guy has feelings for me, so I've definitely meant it when I've said it. I know everyone is different, but that's my experience with it.

Phew!

 

[cafe]

ISTPs do not drop people like hot potatoes. In fact they are likely to remain friends with whomever they've encountered in life for all their life. ISTPS are egalitarians and highly attuned to issues of fairness and justice. There's a lot of NF and NT projection going on here.

So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .

 

[Sinmara]

If he knows she has feelings for him that he is unwilling or unable to reciprocate and knows she is probably going to be hurt, but is still willing to engage in the relationship so he can have a convenient piece of ass, that is, IMO, a pretty jerky thing to do. It's not unfair or dishonest, but it is unkind and selfish.

You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.

 

[Sinmara]

So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .

Correct.

For example, my father knew my mother (and was interested in her) for a few years before they began dating and got married. In the meantime, he had all sorts of flings and girlfriends, even though he was only interested in her.

No point in not enjoying yourself while you're making up your mind about someone.

Granted, he stopped seeing them even on a friendly basis (doorslammed them, basically) after he married my mother because it wasn't fair to her to keep the strumpets around after he had made his wedding vows.

 

[mcmartinez84]

You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.

Well you hit all of the nails on the head, didn'tcha?!

 

[cafe]

You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.

I absolutely am projecting my own values onto the situation. I agree that she's a big girl, etc, but relationships are not all that cut and dried. I have seen situations where a girl has a crush on a guy and he knows it and makes it clear verbally that he isn't interested in anything serious while all the time playing the girl like a violin -- non-verbally or with mixed verbal signals stringing her along and giving her hope. Yes, the girl is stupid for allowing herself to be played but it is, IMO, selfish and unkind to knowingly do this to someone and I fear that that is what could be happening in this situation.

 

[cafe]

Correct.

For example, my father knew my mother (and was interested in her) for a few years before they began dating and got married. In the meantime, he had all sorts of flings and girlfriends, even though he was only interested in her.

No point in not enjoying yourself while you're making up your mind about someone.

Granted, he stopped seeing them even on a friendly basis (doorslammed them, basically) after he married my mother because it wasn't fair to her to keep the strumpets around after he had made his wedding vows.

You are saying the same thing I am saying. The poster I was replying to seemed to be saying that ISTPs wouldn't drop a FWB just because they met someone they like better because they are loyal and fair. You are saying they will keep the FWB around because they are pragmatic and self-interested, not because they are loyal and fair. It is probably because they are loyal and fair that your dad dropped the other girls when he decided to settle down -- that is the scenario I was talking about when I said the guy would drop her like a hot potato.

 

[Sinmara]

Well you hit all of the nails on the head, didn'tcha?!

Haha, yes, I've had just a liiiittle bit of experience with you guys.

You're such emotional retards sometimes. "But she SAID she was fine! Why would she say she was fine if she didn't mean it! That's stupid!"

 

[lasdf23]

Thanks everybody for sharing such deep insights into an ISTP mind. It's extremely refreshing to see you ISTPs be so true to yourself and can stand up to your will/actions. I'm often the one compromising for others (and in doing so expecting the others to compromise for me as well, which often is not the case) and that's why you ISTPs so attractive...M is everything that I'm not. He lives in the moment, he takes a pretty laid-back approach to everyday life, knows clearly what makes him happy and what doesn't, and lives by it. I admire that.

But with that said, I do have to disagree on what Pettycure said

He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his.

Yes, we talked about the relationship, but so far it has ALL been HIM that initiated physical contact (though I do agree I'm particularly bad at initiating that and when we do get physical with each other we have hell of a good time). Even the last time we hooked up (after we decided that we should work on being friends and NOT hook up), he was the one to make the move. I kept telling him no, you're not gonna get it, and tried to push him away, but he had to be insistent..for 3 hours until I finally gave in :-(

No, I don't willingly subject myself into this pathetic situation, and frankly, I've considered just being strictly sexual with him because there are definitely some aspects to M that scream non-relationship material (i.e. his lack of responsibility, moderate drug abuse problem, etc). Still, I just like being around M, because he's so different from me. He's told me he finds me interesting too, probably for the same reasons that I find him interesting, only in the opposite direction. But I'm starting to realize my feelings for him isn't necessarily love or desire for a relationship at this point (heck, I can deal with all of his problems but honestly I don't know enough about him!), and he probably knew that all along...the whole compartmentalizing thing.

Last night when I saw him things were normal. Maybe because there were other mutual friends around too, but he didn't make body contacts with me in any way (which is a relief). But he did pop up here and there around me, definitely not the mutual avoidance that was a week ago. That's enough to make me happy.

I'll continue building on the friendship with him, and if he wants to take this a step further, he will. Otherwise I won't sweat it. That kind of attitude doesn't come naturally to me, so I have to learn...but I can already tell, no matter what happens between us, he will remain one of the memorable people in my life.

 

[mcmartinez84]

Haha, yes, I've had just a liiiittle bit of experience with you guys.

You're such emotional retards sometimes. "But she SAID she was fine! Why would she say she was fine if she didn't mean it! That's stupid!"

LOL, that IS stupid!!!

My BFF ESTP put it really well. I was going to him for some emotional support/advice/whatever and he says... "It's like that Indian girl on The Office said, Kelly...yeah... 'I mean, who says exactly what they're thinking? What kind of game is that?'" Well, I say what I'm thinking...why wouldn't everyone else? But when ESTP said there was a lot of truth to it, I couldn't help but see he was right. I was like " So...it's *not* true? Why would anyone do that? "

 

[McRumi]

..but I can already tell, no matter what happens between us, he will remain one of the memorable people in my life.

true that.

good on you!

 

[Chuckums]

Some of my rambling, disjointed thoughts and philosophy's that this thread has caused me to share. Want to know the truth? Probably not, but you may not be able to stop yourself from reading this.

The she devil was right on with the whole thing about just having fun.
Me? I never had a "girlfriend" till I had a fiance and I was 28 yrs old-just girls I was "seeing". Always sucked in the end because of the hard goodbyes-because you don't want to lie but don't want to insult by telling the whole truth.

Because it is all just black and white to me-"Your either gonna marry this girl or your just seeing her." No middle ground in my mind and there was no way to justify a commitment that really is a promise that I can't keep. Not fair at all to the girl and not realistic either.

How do you tell some girl your seeing-"One of the things I want the most is a girl to love and marry, but it's not you."

Slippy mentioned tit bars-hate 'em too. Dancing-have to get extremely liquored up for that, but that is action, so better 'cause I'm an action kind of guy-I don't want to watch-I want to "DO"!!

OK, I'll admit it:

Prostitutes? Now we're talking!- good stuff with a built in way out, no difficult goodbyes. No commitment, pay the money and when your done it's time to leave-a prearranged way out.

"You want to go to a titty bar?"

"Hell no-let's slam some drinks and go find some f@ckin whores!"

 

[McRumi]

So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .

LOL.

No. you've missed my point. ISTPs live in the moment...so there' s no relationship manipulation like there is with other types...esp the Fs. For us, no relationship ever ends completely. Doesn't mean we keep sleeping with former partners after we start another intimate relationship. After all, we do minimal emotional investing.

As for girls or boys of our deams...ISTPs are not romantics...we don't dream...we are simply with the person of the moment. The whole notion of soulmates is utter nonsense to us. Another NF Hollywood myth.

There is no past, no future, only NOW.

A bit hyperbolic, but only a bit.

 

[sLiPpY]

What is that cool breeze? And where are my clothes!

 

[McRumi]

Some of my rambling, disjointed thoughts and philosophy's that this thread has caused me to share. Want to know the truth? Probably not, but you may not be able to stop yourself from reading this.

The she devil was right on with the whole thing about just having fun.
Me? I never had a "girlfriend" till I had a fiance and I was 28 yrs old-just girls I was "seeing". Always sucked in the end because of the hard goodbyes-because you don't want to lie but don't want to insult by telling the whole truth.

Because it is all just black and white to me-"Your either gonna marry this girl or your just seeing her." No middle ground in my mind and there was no way to justify a commitment that really is a promise that I can't keep. Not fair at all to the girl and not realistic either.

How do you tell some girl your seeing-"One of the things I want the most is a girl to love and marry, but it's not you."

Slippy mentioned tit bars-hate 'em too. Dancing-have to get extremely liquored up for that, but that is action, so better 'cause I'm an action kind of guy-I don't want to watch-I want to "DO"!!

OK, I'll admit it:

Prostitutes? Now we're talking!- good stuff with a built in way out, no difficult goodbyes. No commitment, pay the money and when your done it's time to leave-a prearranged way out.

"You want to go to a titty bar?"

"Hell no-let's slam some drinks and go find some f@ckin whores!"

Lots of ISTP truth here.