[ESTP] An ESTP's attempt at easy money (and the resulting worry we're experiencing)

[Ghost of the dead horse]

My fiance and her dad have inherited the fortune of the late mother of the family. This ESTP, although generous, haven't perhaps spent a thought on how the inheritance should lawfully be conducted, and what can and what can be forced to happen under law. He's trying his limits. He's suggesting my fiance to leave the whole inhered fortune to him, etc.

He already lost one fight in the inheritance of another person, when he never wanted to open a book about law to see what's really his. He lost part of his inheritance and had to pay the legal fees, as well.

Now we're trying to understand the situation and to stay in good terms with him, if possible. I believe there's a way to crush him, if needed, but as he's kind of gregarious and fun, I'd rather just do the minimum thing possible to keep him at his proper place.

Here comes personality and typology. I'm trying to understand the mindset.

-He has an incoherent view of what part of the money is his.
-gets excited of a seemingly good chance for a quick euro
-Has happily asked my fiance to let go of his part to inheritance
-Was surprised and a bit offended to learn that he was legally obliged to co-operate
-More exactly, it was demeaning to him to have to gain his daughter's permission for some use of the co-owned money
-the daughter co-operated, and the co-operation has been good
-gives the feeling that he's trying to push his limits, he attempts some things carefully, ready to back off if it doesn't seem promising
-emotionally, hastily expresses that it's "his money". As said, that's an easily contested POV.
-he is in the situation to delay the process a bit.
-is in possession of a cheque directed to a co-owned legal entity. He can't use it to withdraw any money without the consent of the both parties.
-The ownership of the money is clear, and there are several eyewitnesses to his possession of the cheque.
-it seems easy to establish criminal liability from losses caused by anything but full co-operation.
-seemingly jovial, happy, easy-going, good-humored, gregarious, gives gifts.
-I've helped him with legal & financial advice about apartment sale, inheritage and other things
-He's agreed to my advice and found them helpful.

He's a very nice man, if incompetent with law and money, and we're evaluating how to let him go of his schemes the way he saves his face. We could throw a lawyer at him, and he would probably just pay everything.

He's probably good with little tricks, like the thing how he got hands of the cheque in the first place. I think it's because it was there-and-then, part we don't concentrate that much on. There's all these legal safeguards anyway.

So, we've thought of few things to do
-appealing
-giving a hint, i.e. how I've handled some issues with the money and won
-asking nicely if it would be the best to obey the law
-asking why he's convinced all the money "is his"
-asking why he tries to get money that is so easily proven not to own
-reminding of the criminal liability for any losses caused by his actions
-listening and letting him express his views, then putting in some quiet strength and calmness

He already appreciates my legal & financial understanding, so none of that has to be proven.

Sorry for the long post, there's just quite much with this. Many angles to this. Opinions?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Hmm, I better do another sum-up to a long post.

My fiance's dad is trying to get a hold on some inherited money that isn't his, but my fiance's. The legal and practical issues are quite clear, and he can be forced to drop it.

I'm trying to understand the mindset that makes him attempt such a thing, and if possible, negotiate him to stop being an ass, persuade him to co-operate so we can have fun & good relations in future with this otherwise fun & charming person, most certainly an ESTP. (really, no joke. He is a great fun guy. Apart from this thing obviously.)

 

[Shimmy]

I don't really know what motivates him. What he does sounds a bit silly if you ask me. But then again. I only know your side of the story now.

[YOUTUBE="QYg8khfc9Fs"]Proof of the value of cooperation[/YOUTUBE]

 

[wildcat]

My fiance and her dad have inherited the fortune of the late mother of the family. This ESTP, although generous, haven't perhaps spent a thought on how the inheritance should lawfully be conducted, and what can and what can be forced to happen under law. He's trying his limits. He's suggesting my fiance to leave the whole inhered fortune to him, etc.

He already lost one fight in the inheritance of another person, when he never wanted to open a book about law to see what's really his. He lost part of his inheritance and had to pay the legal fees, as well.

Now we're trying to understand the situation and to stay in good terms with him, if possible. I believe there's a way to crush him, if needed, but as he's kind of gregarious and fun, I'd rather just do the minimum thing possible to keep him at his proper place.

Here comes personality and typology. I'm trying to understand the mindset.

-He has an incoherent view of what part of the money is his.
-gets excited of a seemingly good chance for a quick euro
-Has happily asked my fiance to let go of his part to inheritance
-Was surprised and a bit offended to learn that he was legally obliged to co-operate
-More exactly, it was demeaning to him to have to gain his daughter's permission for some use of the co-owned money
-the daughter co-operated, and the co-operation has been good
-gives the feeling that he's trying to push his limits, he attempts some things carefully, ready to back off if it doesn't seem promising
-emotionally, hastily expresses that it's "his money". As said, that's an easily contested POV.
-he is in the situation to delay the process a bit.
-is in possession of a cheque directed to a co-owned legal entity. He can't use it to withdraw any money without the consent of the both parties.
-The ownership of the money is clear, and there are several eyewitnesses to his possession of the cheque.
-it seems easy to establish criminal liability from losses caused by anything but full co-operation.
-seemingly jovial, happy, easy-going, good-humored, gregarious, gives gifts.
-I've helped him with legal & financial advice about apartment sale, inheritage and other things
-He's agreed to my advice and found them helpful.

He's a very nice man, if incompetent with law and money, and we're evaluating how to let him go of his schemes the way he saves his face. We could throw a lawyer at him, and he would probably just pay everything.

He's probably good with little tricks, like the thing how he got hands of the cheque in the first place. I think it's because it was there-and-then, part we don't concentrate that much on. There's all these legal safeguards anyway.

So, we've thought of few things to do
-appealing
-giving a hint, i.e. how I've handled some issues with the money and won
-asking nicely if it would be the best to obey the law
-asking why he's convinced all the money "is his"
-asking why he tries to get money that is so easily proven not to own
-reminding of the criminal liability for any losses caused by his actions
-listening and letting him express his views, then putting in some quiet strength and calmness

He already appreciates my legal & financial understanding, so none of that has to be proven.

Sorry for the long post, there's just quite much with this. Many angles to this. Opinions?

Give in.

 

[FDG]

Well, with ESTPs that are in that psychological position, in these situations, you shouldn't try to motivate their actions by "real" logic of how the law of society works. He's simply trying to use the quickest and most effective way to get all the money, whatever the law says.

 

[jenocyde]

Just figure out what money is hers and what is his, and then split the accounts. You don't want father and daughter fighting over money - that's a really crass way to look at your family.

Also, maybe she should just take a smaller percent anyway - after all, he raised her for free. Whatever.

I get the suspicion that you are hell bent on "winning" and I hope that you are trying to be objective and are taking your own wants out of this equation.

 

[sLiPpY]

Amazes me how greedy, selfish and self-centered relatives can be. Not really though, people that suck have to be apart of someone's family.

There are relatives I haven't seen or spoken to in fifteen years for those very reasons.

 

[McRumi]

Definitely ESTP behavior.

The best way to deal with this is to stick to the law. Unswervingly. But also graciuously and good humoredly. The ESTP will in the end acknowledge the finality of the law. Because face-to-face dealings with ESTPs can be unending and frustrating, it is also best to leave it to the lawyers so he can have someone else to blame and rant at.

It can get tricky...just remember that when all the dust has settled (if you have not made any personal attacks on him) all will be well.

MOST importantly, write down everything. What i mean by that is...every time you have a discussion about this matter with him, send a follow up email or physical letter repeating what was said. SPs do respect facts, esp facts on paper. If you haven't already done so, do so now. But again, in an affectionate tone.

Don't let him wear you down. In some ways it's a high stakes game for him..exciting and fun. All about who wins and who loses. Appeal to his need to be Lord Protector and dispenser of all that is good...but hold your ground. He'll respect that even if he doesn't show or say it.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Had a nice day with three of us plus the dad's wife.. I really do second guess my interpretation a lot. We didn't talk almost anything about the money though.

On the basis of this, I'd take his previous talk only as a heated expression, perhaps because of something that was said or done at the moment. What I've heard of his plans to keep the money, it's all hearsay, I realize. Heard from my fiance.

It might be what FDG said, attempt at a quick euro, or perhaps it's just a figure of expression, not even meant as a threat. Buh. I have too little info.

So, I've just heard my fiance's word on this.. her dad hasn't wanted to express his plans openly, and I haven't pushed it yet. We have just planned how to deal with it.

Well, she has confidence it will turn out ok, now.. afterall, they have enough money, my fiance has almost none, and the family relations seem good on the surface.

But, good analysis McRumi, thanks! Sounds sensible. Your advice doesn't include a fight as a necessity, so I like it. I'm still hoping he wants the respect of being in charge, the mood, or something like that. Perhaps he wants to be recognized for supporting my fiance at her financial difficulties, not to mention during her childhood (thanks, Jenocyde).

Perhaps I can relax .. they made a deal about the day to cash the cheque. I'll hear how it went, later.

I'd lie if I didn't care about a win. But, he's not an enemy.I try to keep my anger tightly checked. Actually, I was relaxed after dinner today. I'll see. We'll see. I'll think about what you said, all of you. Thanks.