[ESTP] ESTPs and competitiveness

[sculpting]

I have encountered a problem with an ESTP woman who I thought I was close friends with.

I liked a man very much last spring. Total puppy love crush. He is quite crazy and hit on me all the time so I thought he liked me back. He can be very emotive and confusing, since he has no idea what he feels most of the time anyways.

I would talk to this ESTP, share my thoughts, my feelings, my confusion about this what this man wanted from me. It was very strange as in the past she had implied they were close which prompted me to ask on several different occasions if they were sleeping together. (She sleeps with lots of people who are in relationships with others-no judgment, just her style)

She always said no, they were just friends. I explained I was avoiding him, as although I care much for him, he was unhealthy for me to spend too much time around. When I say avoid-I mean I talk to him less than once a month, always about business.

So after several months:
I realized that yes, they were hooking up. I am the only dumb ass he didnt know this it turns out.-Honestly this doesnt bother me.

I realized she had lied to me-this didnt bother me either honestly. She lies a lot.

What bothers me is that in the last few months-without ever admitting she has lied, without admitting she is sleeping with him, she started "bragging" for lack of better word.

"look S texted me..."
"Look S called me..."
"I went out with S in LA and partied like crazy.."
"S and I sat on a beach by the ocean looking at the stars..."

Anytime I talked to the guy one-on-one for work related stuff, she would interrupt and seek attention, or even slap him on the ass or other weird stuff. I just ignored all of this. I ignore him and only interact as needed to be polite or productive.

Then it was like she cranked it up a bit-she started hanging on the guy when we would be anywhere as a group-and watch me to see if I noticed. He seems uncomfortable. I just dont look at them.

The finale was my birthday in which they invited me out-as an outlook invite to our whole department, she hung all over him throughout the first round of beers and then they ditched me, instead of meeting me downtown as planned for the party-which they invited me to.

My entp friend says that the estp is very competitive and that she is trying to show me she has "won". Is this true?

(Just fyi, an enfp will let you win if it makes you happy. We thrive off others happiness and are not competitive. However if you keep pushing it, I dont ever really compete as in a cute little one-up game...Te makes me destroy instead.)

 

[Halla74]

She sounds like an immature bitch, a slut, and a control freak, regardless of her MBTI type.

I am die hard competitive, and I am also very direct. If I'm on a mission to do something it is wide out in the open. I detest liars and people that try to aggrandize themselves at the expense of others, especially in situations like the one you are experiencing as this woman is going through alot of effort to prove to everyone that she is a cheap bimbo.

Sorry, this is class-less behavior. If I were in charge I'd ex-communicate her from the ESTP family, as she is a very poorly motivated individual. Are you sure of her type, or are you guessing? Have you asked her point blank what her MBTI type is, or had her take a reputable online test or something? Just curious.

I'd guess this as more of an ESTJ control freak female. I know one first hand, tested, witness to the madness of her life, etc. She is one crazy beeyatch and a pathological liar and a control freak and a histrionic bimbo.

 

[Arilee]

Well if she's an ESTP, she give the rest of us a bad name.... I would hope that her behaviour is not seen as typical of ESTPs....

I am fairly competitive, but like Halla74 says I am quite open about what I'm doing. I don't like backstabbing, and would certainly never put a friend through what you're going through right now.

If I'm competing openly with someone and I think they haven't played fair - if I win, I do get the urge to rub their nose in it sometimes , but if its a fair fight I would never try to put someone down, and if lose I always try to be gracious in defeat - no matter upset I am. .

Your friend sounds very immature and I suspect she may have serious self confidence issues given the behaviour you are describing.

 

[sLiPpY]

hmm...sounds like you got mixed up with a couple of sociopaths to me.

How to deal with common everyday sociopaths. (article)

 

[Domino]

Very interesting link, Slippy. And possibly applicable to HP's dilemma.

I'd say cut this woman loose as soon as possible.

 

[sculpting]

If I'm competing openly with someone and I think they haven't played fair - if I win, I do get the urge to rub their nose in it sometimes , but if its a fair fight I would never try to put someone down, and if lose I always try to be gracious in defeat - no matter upset I am. .

Your friend sounds very immature and I suspect she may have serious self confidence issues given the behaviour you are describing.

Could it be she thought I wasn't "playing fair" somehow? If I had known they were in a "relationship" I would have never engaged and totally rebuffed him. At any point had she been honest I would have shut him down cold as I respect my friend's relationships-even really strange ones. Since this wasnt clear I did engage-but only mentally and playfully-I never even kissed the guy. Once I realized he was unhealthy for me, I detached significantly.

She sounds like an immature bitch, a slut, and a control freak, regardless of her MBTI type.

I am die hard competitive, and I am also very direct. If I'm on a mission to do something it is wide out in the open. I detest liars and people that try to aggrandize themselves at the expense of others, especially in situations like the one you are experiencing as this woman is going through alot of effort to prove to everyone that she is a cheap bimbo.

Sorry, this is class-less behavior. If I were in charge I'd ex-communicate her from the ESTP family, as she is a very poorly motivated individual. Are you sure of her type, or are you guessing? Have you asked her point blank what her MBTI type is, or had her take a reputable online test or something? Just curious.

I'd guess this as more of an ESTJ control freak female. I know one first hand, tested, witness to the madness of her life, etc. She is one crazy beeyatch and a pathological liar and a control freak and a histrionic bimbo.

I have seen a few of the ESTJs you describe-oddly I can make Te connections with them and I sort of understand them, even if I too cringe at their behavior. Two of them have been my bosses and one almost destroyed our company. I learned avoidance.

This woman is totally an ESTP, but an odd one, almost childlike. If I had to guess she is SeTi with very little, poorly developed Fe. She plays endlessly and is always living in the moment. She will run down hallways and jump up and down spastically yelling. She loves adventure and has lots of EXTP guy friends that she does outdoor/adventure/active things with. When she "thinks" it almost feels reptilian it is so pointed and sharp with very little Fe soothing. Like being pecked by a chicken. Interestingly, when she is hiding something from you, she will stare at you trying to see if you know-I never would have if she hadn't been looking at me so funny. She justifies lying to others as "I never want to look back and know I missed out on something I wanted to do. Besides they are all lying too."

hmm...sounds like you got mixed up with a couple of sociopaths to me.

How to deal with common everyday sociopaths. (article)

This is hysterical-yes they do have some interesting behaviors-however I try to be open and accepting of alternative mindsets on life....although my Fi cringes at the pain I know they inflict, even if I never meet the other person. They both at times have done very kind things for others, they just seem to see things really strangely.

I shut her out after the birthday party. However in turn she has starting being competitive on our workplace projects which becomes more concerning to me.

 

[Jaguar]

She sounds like an immature bitch, a slut, and a control freak, regardless of her MBTI type.

I wish you would learn how to be direct.

 

[jenocyde]

Hahaha, I love my ESTP sisters and I'm sorry you fell prey to one.

I know this situation all too well...

I would talk to this ESTP, share my thoughts, my feelings, my confusion about this what this man wanted from me. It was very strange as in the past she had implied they were close which prompted me to ask on several different occasions if they were sleeping together. (She sleeps with lots of people who are in relationships with others-no judgment, just her style)

She always said no, they were just friends. I explained I was avoiding him, as although I care much for him, he was unhealthy for me to spend too much time around. When I say avoid-I mean I talk to him less than once a month, always about business.

They probably were just friends through all that. Then hearing you talk about him so much maybe sparked some of her own interest in him.

What bothers me is that in the last few months-without ever admitting she has lied, without admitting she is sleeping with him, she started "bragging" for lack of better word.

I still don't get why anyone does shit like this, but I have seen it in my STP female friends. I just don't know the timeline - was she already sleeping with him when you were confiding in her, or is she just sleeping with him now? Also, how do you know for sure that she's even lying to you? Is it possible that this could just be a rumor? What sort of advice did she offer you when you came to her?

Stuff like this fascinates me.

The finale was my birthday in which they invited me out-as an outlook invite to our whole department, she hung all over him throughout the first round of beers and then they ditched me, instead of meeting me downtown as planned for the party-which they invited me to.

Bitch.

My entp friend says that the estp is very competitive and that she is trying to show me she has "won". Is this true?

That was my first guess. Hell, I've been guilty of the same behavior, albeit in a far less shady manner. But when I win, I let people know.

She sounds like an immature bitch, a slut, and a control freak, regardless of her MBTI type.

You're the best.

I'd guess this as more of an ESTJ control freak female. I know one first hand, tested, witness to the madness of her life, etc. She is one crazy beeyatch and a pathological liar and a control freak and a histrionic bimbo.

I know quite a few ESxJs with a lot less moral conviction than suits me, but I've never known one to rub it in. They tend to do their dirt in secret. But that's just my observation and everyone is different.

I guess it's quite obvious that you need to ditch this girl, Puppy. But do you want to talk to her first, destroy her or just freeze her out?

 

[sLiPpY]

This woman is totally an ESTP, but an odd one, almost childlike. If I had to guess she is SeTi with very little, poorly developed Fe. She plays endlessly and is always living in the moment. She will run down hallways and jump up and down spastically yelling. She loves adventure and has lots of EXTP guy friends that she does outdoor/adventure/active things with. When she "thinks" it almost feels reptilian it is so pointed and sharp with very little Fe soothing. Like being pecked by a chicken. Interestingly, when she is hiding something from you, she will stare at you trying to see if you know-I never would have if she hadn't been looking at me so funny. She justifies lying to others as "I never want to look back and know I missed out on something I wanted to do. Besides they are all lying too."

What you are describing is clearly Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as an element of the bundle of joy sociopaths bring to daily living.

Realize as you have observed and described in your own words:

1. You are not dealing with an emotionally integrated rational adult, the emotional development of this individual stopped at the age of five.

2. Almost feels reptilian...aka the narcissist gaze. There's nothing in there but that little five year old child measuring your reaction to what they're projecting or manifesting as the reality they're attempting to create.

3. Another sign are behaviors or actions that are so baffling and odd in comparison to dealing with most other human beings. You have to pinch yourself.

If the disconnected brat is becoming more overt in competing at work, I suspect it's sharpening it's knife because it perceives you as a threat to the reality it is attempting to create.

Narcissist are easy to handle and manipulate once one fully understands what they're dealing with, albeit tiring...and a bit dangerous when others in a group also make the mistake of perceiving that they're dealing with a fully functional adult. But, outing or confronting them is not a wise option...

A narcissist will smile and act like they're a good friend to your face, then walk into your managers office...close the door and stab you in the back. Or try to isolate you from your co-workers, etc.

 

[Halla74]

hmm...sounds like you got mixed up with a couple of sociopaths to me.

How to deal with common everyday sociopaths. (article)

Ohhhhhh that's a dandy article! Have you read this one?

Dealing with a Critic, Control Freak or Verbal Bully? Tongue Fu! |you might want to compare his/her behavior to the following checklist to see how s/he stacks up.

I wish you would learn how to be direct.

HAAA! I'm working on it. I've been so passive and soft spoken most of my life, so cracking out of my shell is a little difficult, but I'm getting better at it day by day.

You're the best.

I know quite a few ESxJs with a lot less moral conviction than suits me, but I've never known one to rub it in. They tend to do their dirt in secret. But that's just my observation and everyone is different.

I guess it's quite obvious that you need to ditch this girl, Puppy. But do you want to talk to her first, destroy her or just freeze her out?

You're the bestestestest!

Interesting you have seen ESTJs execute their dirty little plans in private. I'll remember that. It's good to know it can happen both ways. There are some crazy people in this world, and I try to deal with them as efficiently as possible. Knowledge and experience are power.

 

[Sinmara]

That doesn't sound like an ESTP at all. Most of us tend to be very blunt about what we're doing. My friends know exactly what I think of them, both the good and the bad -- which isn't always so easy to hear, but it means they can never doubt where they stand with me. It's a pretty ESTP thing to do.

Now, we can be pretty damn manipulative if we decide we don't like the person and want to screw with them, but it's not a competitive thing so much as it is our mean streak surfacing.

And to be honest, everything you've described of her is just sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Maybe she's an exception to the rule, but ESTPs aren't usually that reckless. We're planners when it comes to doing such things so we usually come off as more polished than that.

Like I said though, that's jsut ingeneral. She could be a very immature, very bitchy and very selfish ESTP who needs to be stripped of her rank and flogged in town square for making the rest of us look bad.

Honestly though, her actions don't read as ESTP to me. It sounds more like she's trying to get a rise out of you to see how much she could get away with. That sounds more like a Fe type screwing around with you to create drama.

I'd guess this as more of an ESTJ control freak female. I know one first hand, tested, witness to the madness of her life, etc. She is one crazy beeyatch and a pathological liar and a control freak and a histrionic bimbo.

ESTJs are of the devil. O_O

 

[jenocyde]

No one ever wants to claim a crazy person as one of their own, so I get it. But in all honesty, are you telling me that if you wanted a man and you knew a girl who wanted the same man, you would really stop and tell her straight out to back off? Is it really that hard to believe that an STP girl would compete for him? Any girl would, just in different ways - and this seems to be the STP way. I've sat at a table with my boyfriend-at-the-time and had a silly ISTP bitch running her hands all over his knee - and she was my bff at the time. Please. Not all bad behavior means mental disorder. Some people are just assholes.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

Just solve it all with much untactfull ultra-violence. Righteously engage in a cat duel, swiftly ramming your two left fists in her to create a momentum for the right hook. When she is down, proceed to savagely tear off the left lower chunk of her face, with your frontal teeth supported by K-9's. It should effectively eliminate her as your opponent.

 

[sLiPpY]

Ohhhhhh that's a dandy article! Have you read this one?

Dealing with a Critic, Control Freak or Verbal Bully? Tongue Fu! |you might want to compare his/her behavior to the following checklist to see how s/he stacks up.

Tonguefu! Sounds like a welcome addition for my "crazy peeps" tool pack and arsenal. Nuking wof's is fun!

oh, wof = waste of flesh

Everyone else is safe.

 

[Jaguar]

I've sat at a table with my boyfriend-at-the-time and had a silly ISTP bitch running her hands all over his knee - and she was my bff at the time. Please. Not all bad behavior means mental disorder. Some people are just assholes.

I'm sorry to hear that Jen. That's horrible.
Jag's rule: NEVER EVER fuck over a friend.

 

[jenocyde]

I'm sorry to hear that Jen. That's horrible.
Jag's rule: NEVER EVER fuck over a friend.

It's ok, I spit in her food when she went to the bathroom. You don't even want to know what I did to him for not breaking her fingers off.

But yeah, loyalty means everything to me.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

But more importantly... is why do consider your potenial partner worth a conflict for?(you are implying that you want win this person back). If she truly truly want's him, let her have him. If she crosses you again though, you should do everything in your power to destroy, humiliate and expose her.

 

[sculpting]

They probably were just friends through all that. Then hearing you talk about him so much maybe sparked some of her own interest in him.

I still don't get why anyone does shit like this, but I have seen it in my STP female friends. I just don't know the timeline - was she already sleeping with him when you were confiding in her, or is she just sleeping with him now? Also, how do you know for sure that she's even lying to you? Is it possible that this could just be a rumor? What sort of advice did she offer you when you came to her?

I think they were casually hooking up last fall. Then he started avoiding her and paying attention to me through the spring, then didn't interact with her much until I cut off interactions in early summer. I confided in her in the spring. She just said "well I am sure you'll get over that..."

Two of my coworkers and my ENTP said the interactions they observe between the two and the history are indicative.

Also-the first time he hit on me it was after he told her "you were being more intimate with CG than me". He was trying to make her envious but I was too naive to understand.

She also will list all of the men she is intimate with-and says "well there is another, but that is just too close to home." Or the great story about the "guy who has a girlfriend" who she was in the elevator with and said "you and I are both in relationships-wanna hook up?".

She will tell us this stuff off hand-like she is too spastic to recall what she has said in the past. The inconsistent part is that as she talks (brags?) about all of the guys around her that she is sleeping with, admits she lies to them, she will tell you names of every single guy-except one and she shies away, but will say details like the above.

She also sleeps over at company events-in the town we live in. She will sneak luggage upstairs like we are too stupid to notice-she doesnt have a room... She also arranges travel to be in the town the guy is in.

She is not a clever ESTP.

I know quite a few ESxJs with a lot less moral conviction than suits me, but I've never known one to rub it in. They tend to do their dirt in secret. But that's just my observation and everyone is different.

I guess it's quite obvious that you need to ditch this girl, Puppy. But do you want to talk to her first, destroy her or just freeze her out?

Freeze her out is my choice. Talking just precipitates more lies. Destruction-well I try not to go there.

ESTJ women will fake Fe and are not very good at playing games. They are noisy?? But manipulative and power hungry.

 

[sculpting]

That doesn't sound like an ESTP at all. Most of us tend to be very blunt about what we're doing. My friends know exactly what I think of them, both the good and the bad -- which isn't always so easy to hear, but it means they can never doubt where they stand with me. It's a pretty ESTP thing to do.

Now, we can be pretty damn manipulative if we decide we don't like the person and want to screw with them, but it's not a competitive thing so much as it is our mean streak surfacing.

This could be it-perhaps she never really was my friend.

Just solve it all with much untactfull ultra-violence. Righteously engage in a cat duel, swiftly ramming your two left fists in her to create a momentum for the right hook. When she is down, proceed to savagely tear off left lower chunk of her face, with your frontal teeth supported by K-9's. It should effectively eliminate her as your opponent.

This would be a good description of Te destruction...

But more importantly... is why do consider your potenial partner worth a conflict for?(you are implying that you want win this person back). If she truly truly want's him, let her have him. If she crosses you again though, you should do everything in your power to destroy, humiliate and expose her.

Oh no, that really is the funny part-I do not want this guy. When she does these things, for a second I do feel a touch of envy or sadness, but logically and emotionally snuff it out. I chose to run from him, to avoid him. I want him and even her to be happy. If that means they are together, so be it. I am okay with it, even happy for their hapiness.

However to keep having shoved in your face gets a little old. Each time it hurts a touch.

 

[jenocyde]

Also-the first time he hit on me it was after he told her "you were being more intimate with CG than me". He was trying to make her envious but I was too naive to understand.

Yeah, I have a whole bunch of theories about all this, but I am really wondering what advice or counsel she gave you when you talked about him. Did she encourage you to pursue him? How did she treat you?

I'm just trying to understand her angle.