[ESFP] Are all ESFPs total flakes?

[miss fortune]

I know several ESFPs (including my sister!) and I love them to bits, but they're so unreliable! They are frequently forget to show up to appointments,very rarely return phone calls and hardly ever pay back debts. Of course when I see them they're so damned pleasant that I forget how mad I am at them! This in itself kind of makes me mad!

Is this common ESFP problem or do I just hang out with the flakey ones? and how on earth is a person supposed to handle this?!

 

[Athenian200]

They should be flakes. It seems to fit the idea of them according to their functional order. I mean, Se and Fi? ESTP's might be a little better about this for practical reasons, but I think ESFP's have it worst. They think in terms of the present, and have only their subjectively derived emotional values to ground them. They are the most SP of the SP's, in my book.

The best way to handle it is to find someone to be their ground. Who'll constantly remind them of their responsibilities, organize everything for them. They need someone to lean on who's more organized and responsible than them. That's likely the only way they can function long term.

On the positive side, they're good at livening a conversation or providing certain kinds of emotional support.

 

[Splittet]

No, I know an ESFP with an 150-ish IQ ... She can do everything. They are rare though ...

 

[wildcat]

They should be flakes. It seems to fit the idea of them according to their functional order. I mean, Se and Fi? ESTP's might be a little better about this for practical reasons, but I think ESFP's have it worst. They think in terms of the present, and have only their subjectively derived emotional values to ground them. They are the most SP of the SP's, in my book.

The best way to handle it is to find someone to be their ground. Who'll constantly remind them of their responsibilities, organize everything for them. They need someone to lean on who's more organized and responsible than them. That's likely the only way they can function long term.

On the positive side, they're good at livening a conversation or providing certain kinds of emotional support.

Let go.

 

[Athenian200]

Let go.

Of what? My notions about ESFP's? My understanding of MBTI? My typical rigidity in my approach to life? That could mean anything.

 

[wildcat]

Of what? My notions about ESFP's? My understanding of MBTI? My typical rigidity in my approach to life? That could mean anything.

Yes.

 

[htb]

Is this [a] common ESFP problem or do I just hang out with the flaky ones?

Several other types are inclined to the kinds of irresponsibility you've described. But ESFPs can, probably depending on upbringing, be as trustworthy as any other.

I used to believe my father was an SJ because he was stable, upright and thoughtful. But working with him closely for several years showed him as optimistic, open-ended, carefree, short-term, irreverent, forgiving and fun-loving as SJs have never appeared to me. This fits him perfectly:

Outgoing and socially comfortable, ESFPs are happiest when around people and enjoy meeting and developing relationships with others. They easily engage in conversation, have a knack for remembering and relating stories, and communicate with confidence and poise when the center of attention. They persuade by generating practical solutions to immediate problems in an optimistic, passionate way. They are persuaded by current possibilities and alternatives as well as a need for direct action.

Capable, though in specific ways.

 

[Totenkindly]

I know several ESFPs (including my sister!) and I love them to bits, but they're so unreliable! They are frequently forget to show up to appointments,very rarely return phone calls and hardly ever pay back debts. Of course when I see them they're so damned pleasant that I forget how mad I am at them! This in itself kind of makes me mad!

Yes, it's rather the "why babies are cute" syndrome. (Answer: "Because then you won't kill them for being fussy.")

Their lovable persona is the counterbalance to the frustration they can cause... and they only cause that frustration because they're free spirits and that exuberance of life is why people enjoy being with them.

(So it's Catch-22, I'm afraid.)

My best friend growing up was an ESFP. They were the oldest in their family (so they acted more responsibility than they might have otherwise) and had good parents who gave them a good sense of accountability. Yes, they never call or respond to e-mails anymore and impossible to track down, but they were also faithful, accepting, never negative, always seeing the bright side of things. I really needed that balance growing up.

One of my children is an ESFP, and he is the same way. It can be frustrating when I need him to stick to a routine. he has learned somewhat, but still often everything is a fight with him, to have him carry out responsibilities or follow a rule system meant for his own good.

Is this common ESFP problem or do I just hang out with the flakey ones? and how on earth is a person supposed to handle this?!

I think you need to change your expectations somewhat. Focus on the positive they can offer, don't depend on them for the things you know they cannot easily provide... and then thank them for it when you expectedly DO get it from them.

(in general, that is probably the best way to deal with ANYONE... not just ESFPs.)

 

[niffer]

They should be flakes. It seems to fit the idea of them according to their functional order. I mean, Se and Fi? ESTP's might be a little better about this for practical reasons, but I think ESFP's have it worst. They think in terms of the present, and have only their subjectively derived emotional values to ground them. They are the most SP of the SP's, in my book.

The best way to handle it is to find someone to be their ground. Who'll constantly remind them of their responsibilities, organize everything for them. They need someone to lean on who's more organized and responsible than them. That's likely the only way they can function long term.

On the positive side, they're good at livening a conversation or providing certain kinds of emotional support.

Let go.

Of what? My notions about ESFP's? My understanding of MBTI? My typical rigidity in my approach to life? That could mean anything.

Yes.

LOL

To answer the OP though, no, of course not all are. Most are not *total* flakes in the first place. They are just simply far too occupied with social activities and immediate stimulation, and, according to many IXTs, not occupied enough with NOT doing exactly what they have been wired to do; what they enjoy doing.

Just calmly explain to them why something that they constantly flake out on is important to you until they agree, (and they are usually sorry after this). Then be persistent with reminding them when you need to. They also respond very well to well-thought-out threats.

 

[arcticangel02]

Strange. I'm pretty sure my younger sister is an ESFP, but out of the three of us (she's the middle child, and the youngest is an NF) she's the responsible one! Whenever the parents leave us on our own, she's invariably the one who'll get up on time, organise the food, remember to do this at a certain time, etc.

I mean, I'm an even bigger flake, so maybe she's just been forced into the role of the responsible child.

 

["?"]

I know several ESFPs (including my sister!) and I love them to bits, but they're so unreliable! They are frequently forget to show up to appointments,very rarely return phone calls and hardly ever pay back debts. Of course when I see them they're so damned pleasant that I forget how mad I am at them! This in itself kind of makes me mad!

I have heard ENPs are capable of this as well. I would throw ESFJs into the mix for uniformity and say that this may be the result of the "Get Things Going" interaction style:

The theme is persuading and involving others. They thrive in facilitator or catalyst roles and aim to inspire others to move to action, facilitating the process. Their focus is on interaction, often with an expressive style. They Get-Things-Going with upbeat energy, enthusiasm, or excitement, which can be contagious. Exploring options and possibilities, making preparations, discovering new ideas, and sharing insights are all ways they get people moving along. They want decisions to be participative and enthusiastic, with everyone involved and engaged.

When "ON" this can be a very dynamic type of personality, however when "OFF" they can appear two-faced slick Willies who are careless and irresponsible. I would think that the average type reader would throw ESTP into the fray, based on some of the descriptions. I think that MBTT and Keirsey offer this interpretation, whereas Socionics and Berens see ESTPs as being subdued.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I know several ESFPs, and I wouldn't rely on any of them for anything serious. With that said...some do know how to get things done and are capable of buckling down, but I think it depends a lot on their upbringing.

 

[substitute]

Having now spent the past two months since I first saw the OP of this thread, allowing my Ne to grasp any clue as to the meaning of "flake" (because it would've spoiled all the fun to look it up) in American culture, I'm now in a position to answer this thread.

My answer is "no".

And in a fuller sense, no, because my ESFP sister is a great mom and can always be relied on to keep agreements. My ENFP brother, however, is the original, definitive, makes you want to grab him by the lapels and shake him, biggest flake the world has ever seen.

 

[Ivy]

My sister's an ESFP I'm pretty sure, and she's very reliable. My brother, the ENFP, is much more "out of sight, out of mind."

 

[alcea rosea]

First of all somebody explain to this non-native-english-speaker-person what do you mean by flake?
Not corn flake I would assume?

Let go.

You would be good therapist by making people answering their own questions.

* * * *

I know several ESFPs and they are fun & helpful people.

 

[Ivy]

A flake typically means someone who is pleasant and good-natured, but unreliable.

I want to add to my comment about my ENFP brother that I know I can rely on him to be there when it REALLY matters. Same is true of my ESFP sister, but she's also there when there's no crisis.

 

[substitute]

First of all somebody explain to this non-native-english-speaker-person what do you mean by flake?
Not corn flake I would assume?

*puts on Hoshi Sato costume*

From what I can gather, it means someone who's generally unreliable, irresponsible, and generally a pain in the ass. An element of being a freeloader (i.e. always being broke and relying on charity of friends due to mismanagement of own finances) seems to be implied as well.

 

[alcea rosea]

*puts on Hoshi Sato costume*

From what I can gather, it means someone who's generally unreliable, irresponsible, and generally a pain in the ass. An element of being a freeloader (i.e. always being broke and relying on charity of friends due to mismanagement of own financecs) seems to be implied as well.

Thanks for the "translations"!
I think unhealthy ESFP's are pretty much flakes if flake is something that Substitute "translated" to me.

A flake typically means someone who is pleasant and good-natured, but unreliable.

Healthy ESFP could be like Ivy "translated" the word.

And by the way, I like the really old Star Treks.
I don't have a clue who these "new" characters are.

 

[substitute]

Thanks for the "translations"!
I think unhealthy ESFP's are pretty much flakes if flake is something that Substitute "translated" to me.



Healthy ESFP could be like Ivy "translated" the word.

And by the way, I like the really old Star Treks.
I don't have a clue who these "new" characters are.

Yeah I forgot to add the "likeable, which is why they get away with it" part.

I also didn't know about the new characters (beyond TNG) until last year when I decided to increase my Trek-Lore by buying all series and watching them in sequence

Ivy, my brother can be relied on when it REALLY matters, about 50% of the time. Which means he can't really be relied on... cos there's a large chance he'll fail you. He's getting worse as he gets older because his shrugging of responsibility and terror of commitment are increasing, but as people are getting wise to him and getting fed up of having to sub him and bail him out all the time, the goodwill he had from being likeable and friendly has diminished substantially. But he still doesn't see that it's his own fault and thinks people are being mean and judging him and stuff... when they just have families and commitments now and can't have him sleeping on their sofa and eating at their expense all the time any more.

I think there's nothing wrong with being a flake when you're young and nothing, really, wrong with it even when you're older... but it seems the longer you leave it before you buck your ideas up, y'know, the more likely you are to lose that goodwill and turn bitter, so you end up not having any redeeming features...

 

[Ivy]

Yeah I forgot to add the "likeable, which is why they get away with it" part.

I also didn't know about the new characters (beyond TNG) until last year when I decided to increase my Trek-Lore by buying all series and watching them in sequence

Ivy, my brother can be relied on when it REALLY matters, about 50% of the time. Which means he can't really be relied on... cos there's a large chance he'll fail you. He's getting worse as he gets older because his shrugging of responsibility and terror of commitment are increasing, but as people are getting wise to him and getting fed up of having to sub him and bail him out all the time, the goodwill he had from being likeable and friendly has diminished substantially. But he still doesn't see that it's his own fault and thinks people are being mean and judging him and stuff... when they just have families and commitments now and can't have him sleeping on their sofa and eating at their expense all the time any more.

I think there's nothing wrong with being a flake when you're young and nothing, really, wrong with it even when you're older... but it seems the longer you leave it before you buck your ideas up, y'know, the more likely you are to lose that goodwill and turn bitter, so you end up not having any redeeming features...

Yeah, that doesn't really describe my brother at all. He got his ass in gear when he became a father and is very successful IT manager now. (In fact, that's how I know he'd be there for me in a crisis- he made it possible for my husband to get certifications through his company, without which we would've been up a creek. He even bought the books.)

He's sweet and enthusiastic but NEVER calls (there's the ISFJ in me!) or return my messages or emails, except for sometimes. It's not because I bug him often- it's seriously only once a month or less. He's just very busy being sweet and enthusiastic where he physically is, 300 miles away from me. He and his wife are both ENFPs, and they're both very out-of-sight-out-of-mind (plus super-busy in their lives), but when we're together in the same physical location it's like no time has passed.