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[ISFP] ISFP who lacks empathy?

countrygirl

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NO FREAKIN WAY!
:hug:
I'm not alone!!!!

I was actually trying to figure out my husband, ISTP by the way, and decided to read about some other types.

On test I come out as an ISFJ, but my lifestlye, my everyday life does not reflect this.

When I read the ISFP profile, it just clicked with me.
 

ayoitsStepho

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I was actually trying to figure out my husband, ISTP by the way, and decided to read about some other types.

On test I come out as an ISFJ, but my lifestlye, my everyday life does not reflect this.

When I read the ISFP profile, it just clicked with me.

:yes: That happened to me too. I tested as an ISFJ, but I really couldnt connect with it. lol I thought I was a loser because of it. Seriously, I almost got upset at the discription xD
But when I actually looked for myself, i realised I was an ISFP. I looked up all this stuff just to be sure and bam, I got it.

So welcome to the ISFP circle. Its small, I think smaller than ISFJ on this forum, so I'm converting people ;)
 

compulsiverambler

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I think I empathise more than I sympathise. And that leads me to want to solve the source of discomfort, to alleviate it in some way.

It really is just me. I'm quite reserved in general. I've sometimes been accused of not caring by the more expressive types.
I do think this is likely an Fi-dom thing. I have had the same problem. And what Quinlan said rang very true for me as well. As a child I had rogue empathy. I was constantly attributing human experiences to inanimate objects, and I was better at knowing how to not hurt people's feelings than most children, and avoided doing so to my own detriment more than most, yet I did and do get accused of a lack of empathy or caring, mainly by Fe types, because it doesn't come naturally to me to socially express emotion all the time on cue and on demand. I don't like to bring (force) feelings out into the open that aren't leaking out of their own accord.

It's easier for me to process emotion by capturing and examining it in one place, under a microscope, privately, not when by immediately sharing it and so inviting outside interference. Because it doesn't come naturally I also worry that doing so will only look quite obviously forced and uncomfortable anyway. I'm also very poor at keeping emotions inside when they are pushing their way out, but not necessarily because I don't want to suppress them as much as other people do, as men sometimes think is the case for women. Sometimes, for example at work or school situations, I desperately want to keep them secret, they just overpower my defences anyway.
 
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compulsiverambler

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Fe preferrers I think deliberately mine their own emotional reserves when the social situation calls for it. I think Fi users prefer to deal with it as it comes, not to play with any emotion before we understand it. We see feelings as something complicated and potentially destructive that should be respected. What Fe users do (encouraging each other to dig and dig for more shared feeling) seems like poking a lion with a stick to make it roar. At least, that's how I feel. Sometimes I feel it so strongly I want to rebel against Fe expectations, when they start to seem self-indulgent, irresponsible and oppressive. The kind of social game that tabloids encourage. Maybe that's what happened with the person in the OP, and what you're seeing isn't a rejection of Fi, but a protest against Fe.
 

wolfy

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I do think this is likely an Fi-dom thing. I have had the same problem. And what Quinlan said rang very true for me as well. As a child I had rogue empathy. I was constantly attributing human experiences to animate objects, and I was better at knowing how to not hurt people's feelings than most children, and avoided doing so to my own detriment more than most, yet I did and do get accused of a lack of empathy or caring, mainly by Fe types, because it doesn't come naturally to me to socially express emotion all the time on cue and on demand. I don't like to bring (force) feelings out into the open that aren't leaking out of their own accord.

I think you are on the right track here. I was reading this thread Empathy and Sympathy

This quote by Jenocyde cleared it up for me

" 'Sympathy' and 'empathy' refer to two distinct and complex psychological capacities that have quite distinct meanings. Nevertheless, philosophers and psychologists have had tremendous difficulty keeping the two concepts distinct. Since the classic works by Max Scheler on sympathy and by Edith Stein on empathy, theorists have been trying to define the terms by supposing empathy is merely a type of sympathy... In empathy, the self is the vehicle for understanding, and it never loses its identity. Sympathy, on the other hand, is concerned with communion rather than accuracy, and self-awareness is reduced rather than enhanced. In empathy, one person reaches out for the other person, whereas in sympathy the sympathizer is moved by the other person... To know what something would be like for the other person is empathy. To know what it would be like to be that person is sympathy. In empathy one acts "as if" one were the other person. (Rogers, 1957, p. 3) In sympathy one is the other person. (Macfie, 1959, p. 213). The object of empathy is understanding. The object of sympathy is the other person's well-being. In sum, sympathy is a way of relating."
Sympathy and empathy
Irene Switankowsky. Philosophy Today. Celina: Spring 2000. Vol. 44, Iss. 1; pg. 86, 7 pgs

It seems there is no need to express empathy. It is not that we block empathy, it is just that we experience it and don't always feel the need to express it.
 

countrygirl

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I think you are on the right track here. I was reading this thread Empathy and Sympathy

This quote by Jenocyde cleared it up for me....It seems there is no need to express empathy. It is not that we block empathy, it is just that we experience it and don't always feel the need to express it.

That right. Since there is no need to discuss ourselves. But, if sympathy is needed, we show our concern because it is about the other person.
 

countrygirl

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:yes: That happened to me too. I tested as an ISFJ, but I really couldnt connect with it. lol I thought I was a loser because of it. Seriously, I almost got upset at the discription xD
But when I actually looked for myself, i realised I was an ISFP. I looked up all this stuff just to be sure and bam, I got it.

So welcome to the ISFP circle. Its small, I think smaller than ISFJ on this forum, so I'm converting people ;)

LOL. Glad to be converted! It is hard being this different from society with no need to fit in.
 

Bamboo

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To the OP

I'm seeing an INFP. Well, at least I was sure I typed her correctly. She's definitely an INP, but she lacks the sharp precision in thought that I associate with ITP types.

She keeps going on at very great length about how she "just doesn't understand people, nor feel like trying to sometimes", or how she finds it easier to feign concern in a variety of situations, because it's so much easier to fake it instead of saying what she means; she calls them "shallow words". It seems like she almost brags about how uncaring and unromantic she is. Unimpressed ISTP is unimpressed.

I hear about how INFPs are naturally empathetic people, and she sounds quite the contrary. I'm guessing that it is possible for an IFP to behave this way, with a highly developed Fi but underdeveloped Ne to gather information from people, resulting in a self-centred person. When we're talking, her input is always revolved around herself, rather than asking about me. She loves to talk about herself. All the time, at great length. She turned out to be extremely self centered.

This doesn't sound odd, but she is telling me this as a form of verbal armour. As in, she's actually a soft and caring individual, but she's overcompensating inorder to save face and avoid getting hurt.

She could be an INTP, but I'm still confident that she's an INFP.


Fixed to reflect my own first hand experience. Nearly the same thing.

INFP, INTP, ISFP, ISTP, whatever, she's more than likely a very self centered, insecure, unhappy person.

She was fun (beyond all the bad stuff), but ultimately her insecurity and neediness became really uncomfortable. And she made very little effort to meet my needs, maybe 15% to my 65% (it wasn't a long lived situation).

If you want to go down that road, it's your call, I don't know the details of your situation and she might be only slightly self centered and insecure, making it more bearable. But I'd move on to better things. It stung a little, but a week or so later, I was happy I did.
 

Bamboo

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As an aside, my view on ISFPs have changed as a result of this thread.

I've frequently considered if I'm more ISTP or ISFP. I test strong T (65-70%).

Of course, I'm probably a little of both. I'm not a conglomeration of four letters.
 

Grungemouse

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Hm? Oh, she isn't insecure at all. She is in fact more laid back than I am.

We had a conversation earlier this week, and I couldn't help but dabble into the topic again. I tried to keep it light-hearted, but I think she picked up on my disapproval. She said:

I am secretly caring. There are a few people who I wouldn't mind snuggling up to and giving some TLC to. [Friend's name] always needs a dose of love. Mama [Her name] can be motherly. Interwebs makes it so easy to like people. All the things I like about them, with none of the embarresing interactions.

Honestly? She lacks the fluid Ne on Ne conversation I have with other NP types, plus she doesn't speculate half as much as us. She just dives straight in.

ETA: I'm sorry to hear about your rough experience with an INFP. I think the main problem with IFP/ITP relationships is the dom-Fi/inferior-Fe clashing.
 

Bamboo

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Hm? Oh, she isn't insecure at all. She is in fact more laid back than I am.

We had a conversation earlier this week, and I couldn't help but dabble into the topic again. I tried to keep it light-hearted, but I think she picked up on my disapproval. She said:



Honestly? She lacks the fluid Ne on Ne conversation I have with other NP types, plus she doesn't speculate half as much as us. She just dives straight in.

Well I guess I'm just projecting the details of my situation onto yours.

My fault. They seemed externally similar.

She sounds forthcoming enough. (EDIT) I think our situations are different but I would point out that I did have a similar "earnest moment" where she told me about how she acts like "a b****" to cover herself up and distance herself from others, but she really enjoys helping out her friends and being close to family.

Perhaps I'm making connections where there aren't any.

What do you mean by the last paragraph?
 
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Grungemouse

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Simple case of "reader-response". Don't worry.

At least it gave me an insight on the potential pitfalls of IFP/ITP relationships.

What do you mean by the last paragraph?

As in the "Ne on Ne" point? Well, with the function as my primary conversational tool, most of my conversations are abtract, pointless, and hypothetical nonsense. I can't give an example, because it just... happens. I make comical connections between what the person just said and with something that seems entirely unrelated. Other NP types seem to understand where I'm coming from, and have a similar response branching from my input until the conversation is a tangled mess of verbiage. :D With the ISFP, I can get away with it for a bit, but she can't add anything on; she just cracks up at the absurdity of it all.

I think the most amazing conversation I've had was with an ENTP. It was so ridiculous I can't even remember what we were talking about; the memory just resonates awesome.
 

compulsiverambler

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I forgot to say, it's also possible she has an autism spectrum disorder or is borderline autistic. Feeling types can have it too.
 

Bamboo

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That's exactly what I wanted to describe it as but didn't have the words. Reader-response.


As for the 'pitfalls' concept, as I've seen in this thread, I don't know enough about Fi and Fe to really understand it. Maybe.

Regarding the Ne-Ne, yeah, I know what that is. I grew up with it: my dad is ENTP. Trust me, puns non-stop. I remember him talking with some other NP type (not my INFJ mom, she never can follow a joke/pun) and it was just total pun over pun over tangent.

My standard response is getting the joke but not responding to it.
 

Grungemouse

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I forgot to say, it's also possible she has an autism spectrum disorder or is borderline autistic. Feeling types can have it too.

I'm aware of this; I know an ISFJ male with Aspergers. Come tho think of it, I know an INFP who might well be autistic.

We both jokingly suggested that we must both be "secretly autistic", but... I never gave it much serious thought. Hmm. I know I'm not autistic because I was very responsive as a child, and loved being hugged. As for her, a lot of her traits sound potentially autistic, but her behaviour around people is too... natural? She helps with tourist information where she lives, plus she works as a cashier. Both demanding people skills. Argh, now my over-active imagination is going to be reading "autistic traits" into her behaviour. Nice one. :D
 

Jeffster

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I think you are on the right track here. I was reading this thread Empathy and Sympathy

This quote by Jenocyde cleared it up for me

That's funny because I think the article she quoted had it exactly backwards. Empathy is the one that's about "being" another person, sympathy is more like just feeling bad that they feel bad.
 

compulsiverambler

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I'm aware of this; I know an ISFJ male with Aspergers. Come tho think of it, I know an INFP who might well be autistic.

We both jokingly suggested that we must both be "secretly autistic", but... I never gave it much serious thought. Hmm. I know I'm not autistic because I was very responsive as a child, and loved being hugged. As for her, a lot of her traits sound potentially autistic, but her behaviour around people is too... natural? She helps with tourist information where she lives, plus she works as a cashier. Both demanding people skills. Argh, now my over-active imagination is going to be reading "autistic traits" into her behaviour. Nice one. :D
:D Okay, this post might help you stop. One of my friends has been told by an educational psychologist (who was reassessing her for specific learning disabilities, not AS) that she has AS traits, and she doesn't seem impaired in any way that bothers her. I mean, people misjudge her often - as miserable or aloof because she usually wears one facial expression and holds a level tone of voice, or as badly mannered or ungrateful, especially at first - but not badly enough to outright accuse her of being rude, and she doesn't really seem to notice. That's what I mean by borderline autistic: no impairment or distress yet, just noticeably different in ways shared by autists. She has many friends and hates to have to amuse herself alone for any period of time, and so far in her life at least, doesn't seem less capable of anything she's tried as a result of the traits she has.

The fact is though, having to feign sympathy because you prefer not to get immersed in other people's feelings and can deliberately limit the degree of empathy you engage in (like many Ts, for example, or highly emotional or depression-prone people, or people with certain kinds of upbringings) is different to having to feign sympathy because you are genuinely less capable of seeing or imagining how other people feel than is reasonably expected. Someone might be in the latter category with or without warranting a diagnosis of autism; that's not really the point. Their brain may still, in that one respect, work in the same way and have to be understood in that way. That's why I brought it up. With people who are doing and feeling fine, it doesn't matter about the label so much as pinning down and understanding the process behind what you're observing.
 

wolfy

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That's funny because I think the article she quoted had it exactly backwards. Empathy is the one that's about "being" another person, sympathy is more like just feeling bad that they feel bad.

I don't know. I'll think about it when there is less vodka flowing threw me. I'm more interested in pointing out that I experience the feelings of others and a feeling of empathy but don't feel the need to express it.
 

Grungemouse

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Thanks, CR (I don't know what else to call you). I will give your advice a lot more thought (naturally), which goes against your intention. We haven't been going out that long, but if it gets to the point of "seriousness", then I'll begin to consider speculating a plan of action. :D In all seriousness though, I've taken what you said on board.
 
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Julie1962

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Hmmm... as a child, teenager and possibly a young adult I was not the most empathetic person. However, as a middle age woman, I am alot more empathetic than I was in my younger days. I have had many struggles during marriage, having kids with special needs, caregiving for elderly parents, etc. As long as I have experienced what someone is going through, I am exceptionally empathetic. Otherwise, I can come across as a bit callous. I'm not good at pretending. And you are right, she may just be BSing you. Sometimes it's embarressing to feel for and care for someone who is not as demonstrative of their feelings in return. Maybe she is just trying to look tough to be like you. Does she know you are attracted to sensitive personalities?

Finally, I can come across as a cold turd when I am feeling deep pain. I don't want to express that pain to someone; I don't like to cry in front of someone. For instance, my elderly parents are moving far away in two days to an assisted living facility near my brother. I have been living with this knife in my chest for the past 2 weeks as moving day draws near. Yet my mother keeps telling my sister how I don't appear to care a bit. That could be further from the truth. My heart is breaking in two.

Anyway, good luck. Hope you get to know her better and can get a true picture of who she is and isn't.
 
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