[MBTI General] ENTPs and ESTPs

[onemoretime]

Well, I see my particular quirks - I do enjoy food, but certainly am not a "live to eat" type. I like cooking more for the fun of it than going to restaurants, and absolutely can't stand my Dad's habit of going to the same restaurant weekly. I usually have a shirt on, but that's just because my back got itchy as a kid (contact allergy), so it's more habit than anything. I'm also guessing that I'm fairly used to being hot all the time, growing up in a very warm climate.

One thing that ESTPs and ENTPs consistently bond over, in my experience, is that we both have the same sick, depraved sense of humor that most people grew out of years ago. I've got two confirmed ESTP buddies, one's going to be a lobbyist, one I keep trying to get him to be a sports agent (encyclopedic sports knowledge). Both I can make the most horrible jokes with imaginable without any sense of discomfort. In fact, I get in trouble when I can't tone it down when other friends are around.

 

[Halla74]

One thing that ESTPs and ENTPs consistently bond over, in my experience, is that we both have the same sick, depraved sense of humor that most people grew out of years ago.

Of all the things to have in common, that is one of the most wonderful. It's nice to be among the sickest of the sick! :yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[yenom]

I don't know if this has to do with Se,but I seek experiences that can put me on the edge and help me conquer my fear. I also wanted to overcome my introversion and seek experiences that can push me to my limits, whether physically or mentrally.

 

[Qre:us]

An ENTP will try it for the novelty of it. To satiate the mental curiosity and say, okay, that's off my list.

I'm CONSTANTLY on the lookout for opportunities to experience new things. But it's nothing to do with crossing things off a metaphorical list. I'm not an experience collector, per se. I do it, and knowingly, because I want - REALLY want and NEED - to understand the world and reality, and the more of it I see, the greater the sample of it I have to go on, the better my understanding becomes. The closer it gets to complete.

He wants to enjoy it. I don't just want but need to understand it. The strength of that need can't be overstated!

Maybe my one-liner didn't really flesh out this ^ key motivation, that you described so well, as I do agree with you. When I spoke of the novelty that is motivated by mental curiosity...it is to tackle something new, to engage mentally and learn, to satiate that mental curiosity to know, to learn. The sigh that comes when I can say: I understand. Otherwise, it would be the same motivation as the ESTP, which was not what my one-liner was aiming to explain for the ENTPs.

For me, I do have a list (although it is constantly changing) of things that I want to explore more, learn more about, understand....and crossing those off the list, in that sense.

 

[onemoretime]

Maybe my one-liner didn't really flesh out this ^ key motivation, that you described so well, as I do agree with you. When I spoke of the novelty that is motivated by mental curiosity...it is to tackle something new, to engage mentally and learn, to satiate that mental curiosity to know, to learn. The sigh that comes when I can say: I understand. Otherwise, it would be the same motivation as the ESTP, which was not what my one-liner was aiming to explain for the ENTPs.

For me, I do have a list (although it is constantly changing) of things that I want to explore more, learn more about, understand....and crossing those off the list, in that sense.

It's less a sense of crossing things off a list for me (though I do constantly have a set of new experiences I want to try). It's more a need to constantly collect information, whereby at some point I'll figure something out subconsciously, have my "eureka!" moment (which is the greatest feeling of all), and then go forth with further understanding.

For example, I figured out how radians in geometry worked the other day. I've never been one to love math, particularly disdaining the procedural fashion in which it's taught in most public schools in the US. I haven't taken geometry in 10 years, and have hardly thought about circles, angles or radians in any other context than the year of AP Calculus I took (and then, only enough so I'd get a 3 and not take any math in college).

So I was thinking about polygons, and how a circle was in essence an infinitely sided regular polygon - that is, if you wrote an equation which output a regular polygon, it's limit as x approached infinity would be a circle. So I was trying to figure out how to map out the relationship between vertices in a regular polygon as they related to pi, as there has to be some sort of way to write that relationship out into some sort of equation. As I was thinking about that, I was thinking about circumference, and how that would factor in. Thinking about how the equation for circumference was 2(pi)r, it all of a sudden hit me - that's how radians work. If the radius were one, all those portions of circle, and the angles that defined them, could be indicated by the division of that 2(pi).

First thing I thought - "holy crap, I figured out radians". Second thing I thought - "too bad I took Geometry in 9th grade, back in 1999". Third thing I thought - "damn, it took me ten years to figure that out"?

Still, the overall "eureka!" moment was fantastic. It's too bad our educational system doesn't play to those moments, preferring proceduralism - take this equation, stick a number in it, don't bother knowing why that works.

 

[Halla74]

Still, the overall "eureka!" moment was fantastic. It's too bad our educational system doesn't play to those moments, preferring proceduralism - take this equation, stick a number in it, don't bother knowing why that works.

Absolutely. Our educational system is exceptionally poor at teaching students to apply knowledge. That is why so many graduate high school, and even from college with little or no transferable skills.

 

[Sachetan]

My ESTP friends are great fun but feel so normal compared to me. They have much more conventional hobbies and goals in life. Me and my ENTP friends talk a lot about that outsider feeling in life in general and that's when the ESTPs don't get it at all. They feel they belong when we are planning a revolution

Maybe it has to do with the fact that the world is 40% SP but only 10% NT?

 

[Winds of Thor]

PRICELESS! Imagine what they could do if they chose to cooperate. It would be like two bulls trying to kill the same matador.

Ninja 3: The Domination

 

[Riva]

ENTP - Makes witty remarks in/at the middle of an argument which they are losing to humor you, change the facts a bit, come back to the argument and beat you.

ESTP - Makes personal attacks in/at the middle of an argument they are losing to win the argument.

 

[Halla74]

ENTP - Makes witty remarks in/at the middle of an argument which they are losing to humor you, change the facts a bit, come back to the argument and beat you.

ESTP - Makes personal attacks in/at the middle of an argument they are losing to win the argument.

Really? Interesting. I think doing as such is the mark of an amateur.

Most ESTPs are very much on an emotional even keel, especially during conflict, of which arguing is a type. We are comfortable in conflict, because we love it, so we can stay objective and cool headed when most lose it.

I make it a point to win my arguments objectively and do not feel it necessary to deliver a personal attack unless provoked. It especially irritates me when someone makes claims/demands that you know they don't adhere to themselves. I nail people for that. I hate hypocrites.

I'm sure there are some hot headed ESTPs out there, but I am not one of them.

 

[Clonester]

I love ESTP's. They're one of the few types that can keep up to me. And if they think they can outdo me I turn it into a competition- which we both love. It's a win-win combo really.

 

[mcmartinez84]

It's funny that the one ENTP I know LIVES to eat food and here you guys are more eat-to-live types (which is very much like me....eating is practically a chore). He's quite the large man, a bottomless pit of a stomach who will eat just because he likes the food and it's there - I'm not sure he's very aware of the whole "leftovers" concept.

One thing that bugs me about the ENTP is that he can't lose an argument. If he's wrong the topic is either completely changed, slightly modified so that he's right, or he outright contradicts himself (probably just to be an ass 'cause he thinks it's funny - and I'll be darned if he and I think the same things are funny). All of that said....we have lunch together an average of 3 times a week, if not more.

He also wants to make something of nothing. If I say anything there's CLEARLY SOME DEEPER MEANING that I was unaware of.
The ESTP doesn't do that.

Also, the ENTP definitely has a slight God complex of wanting to be the mastermind behind stuff. My God complex is only extended to stuff like video games...i.e. Age of Empires. I think the same pretty much applies to the ESTP. We're more go-with-the-flow where the ENTP wants to make certain things happen (which generally involves a lot of wanting to make people feel awkward so he can laugh about it).

 

[EcK]

^that entp does sound super healthy

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

ESTPs and I are dissimilar in nearly every way. They're fun and easy-going, and I appreciate them for those reasons, but I can't fathom being confused for an ESTP ... ever ... ever. I'm too much in la-la-land.


I've been confused by others for INTP, ENFP, ENTJ, and ENFJ (and INFJ and INTJ once each). But my "N" is too strong for me to ever be mistaken for a Sensor. I can't even remember if I ate today.

 

[Synarch]

ESTP's seem more easy going. ENTP's seem to have a darkness to them.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

ESTP's seem more easy going. ENTP's seem to have a darkness to them.

Dark how?


My sense of humor is dark. But probably no darker than most NTs.

 

[Synarch]

Dark how?


My sense of humor is dark. But probably no darker than most NTs.

I just see ESTP's as more carefree.

 

[sculpting]

I work with about ten ESTPs and fifteen ENTPs. Below are workplace observations about them.

ENTPs say Funny clever things. ESTPs say Funny crude things. (Ie one of my ESTPs talks about fisting folks over lunch, another talks about "pallets of babies die every year" as an ad slogan and so on. It is utterly hysterical and utterly crude.)

ESTPs are shinier than ENTPs. They are very polished with every detail proper. Very good external front. More solid facade and less neurotic than the ENTPs.

Both play politics quite well but the ESTP will play a nastier, more brutal game where the ENTP plays a more clever game. Both will read politics into a nonpolitical situation. This actually creates political situations. But-as jeno-noted interestingly above-the ESTPs sort of get caught in a very static mindset. The ENTPs can be talked through politics more easily and see different views.

ESTPs-mostly-seem limited in long term vision. They cant see Ne style into the future so will want to "see more data" as a way to avoid making a decision. This can go on forever. ENTPs excel at long term vision, but need some Te folks around and Fi folks to keep the vision scheduled and nondestructive.

Both can be good at sales, but it comes more natural to the ESTP.

ESTPs can come across more "normal" and grounded. I think of ENTPs as the quantum particles that havent been measured so you can only calculate probabilities. The ESTPs got measured and are now firmly stuck in one state with location known but velocity undefined.

Both love to party-but the ENTPs act more crazy than the ESTPs. Both love sex, some of each are having affairs, with each other entertainingly, and most of them hit on me.

ESTPs cant see past the immediate data, but are great at Sales/margin/quarter to quarter revenue. ENTPs see and build systems and processes. They rock in Bus Dev positions, with some ESTP back up.

Both have issues seeing that the whole company is a team. If there are issues, the ESTPs are very bad about saying "well that is so-and-so's problem, not mine". The ENTPs will instead still say it is somebody else's problem but then try and find ways to collect data that will force a change in process or system to resolve the issue, forgetting that people are the system pieces.

For both, if a person is the problem, they will cut the person loose. "Just replace them" is the solution. Not for people they care about, just for troublesome employees.

The ENTPs really love NeFi, The ESTPs oddly, like NeTe. Like they admire the fact that I kick ass dominantly as they are so indirect. It takes the ESTPs are really long time to warm up to me, but once they do, it is like moths to a flame. I have tried cutting them off honestly as it can be painful to watch the endless games, but then they come back as they really do care.

Mind, this is a small data set so could be flawed and not representative.

 

[mcmartinez84]

I work with about ten ESTPs and fifteen ENTPs. Below are workplace observations about them.

Wow! What line of work are you in?!?!?! I'm kinda jealous that you work with so many ESTPS. One ENTP is more than enough for me tho

ENTPs say Funny clever things. ESTPs say Funny crude things. (Ie one of my ESTPs talks about fisting folks over lunch, another talks about "pallets of babies die every year" as an ad slogan and so on. It is utterly hysterical and utterly crude.)

The ESTP is quite crude! My ESTP says "I'd pee in her butt" when he sees a hot girl....all....the...time... It's pretty funny 'cause it's so gross! (Basically the girl is so friggin' hot that he'd stoop to peeing in her butt if she asked him to. Uh, altho he just says it for shock/funny value. Not 'cause he'd actually do that...I don't think! )

ESTPs are shinier than ENTPs. They are very polished with every detail proper. Very good external front. More solid facade and less neurotic than the ENTPs.

Definitely. The ENTP can't stand to keep his shirt tucked in. He's big on food and usually has some form of it on his shirt, doesn't shave too often, gets a haircut every 2-3 months (when it should be every 1-2 months)....
ESTP doesn't mind dressing up a little for work and maintaining the look. Not saying he's super into it or anything, but he'll do the occasional ironing, or slap on a sweater vest, perhaps spring for the tie. The ENTP wouldn't ever do that.

ESTPs-mostly-seem limited in long term vision. They cant see Ne style into the future so will want to "see more data" as a way to avoid making a decision. This can go on forever. ENTPs excel at long term vision, but need some Te folks around and Fi folks to keep the vision scheduled and nondestructive.

ESTP had a hard time when his girlfriend kept talking about marriage awhile back. He was like "omg, you still have a bunch of college and post-college education left, what's the rush?!" It bothered him that she was pressuring him into a decision he wasn't ready to make that was so far off in the future...not to mention quite life-changing!

Both can be good at sales, but it comes more natural to the ESTP.

The ESTP could sell the worst used cars to anyone! I'm sure the ENTP could do it too, but the ESTP has a better way about it, imho. I'd end up feeling better with an ESTP convincing me to do something than the ENTP.


And that's all I've got.

 

[Riva]

Most ESTPs are very much on an emotional even keel, especially during conflict, of which arguing is a type. We are comfortable in conflict, because we love it, so we can stay objective and cool headed when most lose it.

I make it a point to win my arguments objectively and do not feel it necessary to deliver a personal attack unless provoked. It especially irritates me when someone makes claims/demands that you know they don't adhere to themselves. I nail people for that. I hate hypocrites.

you just proved my point.