[SP] What do you think, SPs?

[StephMC]

Oh yeah... and if you plan on confronting him, here's a little trick into getting what you want to know from an ISTP (Note: Use wisely): Ask him VERY specific questions. When we don't want to answer something we'll be very vague. Which could mean anything. I hate lying. But if I don't want someone to know something, I talk myself into believing being vague isn't exactly lying. But if they ask me very specific questions... I can't help but answer. (not to say we don't lie, but I, for one, really don't like to.)

So be wary of an ISTP that answers vaguely... as we are hiding something

 

[stellar renegade]

Same with ESTPs, too, that's something that's distinctive about us and is actually described by Keirsey. It was interesting for me because although my expression of my type has fluctuated over the years (quiet, or emotional), that's one of the things I've always been very good at.

"As noted, Promoters are directive rather than inquisitive, which means Promoters do not hesitate to tell others what to do. A seemingly necessary consequence of being directive is that Promoters tend to be rather uninformative. They can even be deliberately disinformative on occasion, facile as they usually are in doubletalk, a way of talking that is equivocal, ambiguous, obscure, and even evasive, such as to lack in clarity, expliciteness, and definitiveness. After all information and directives do not mix very well. If Promoters attach more than a little information to their directives they risk undermining the force of their directives."

 

[Coeur]

Oh yeah... and if you plan on confronting him, here's a little trick into getting what you want to know from an ISTP (Note: Use wisely): Ask him VERY specific questions. When we don't want to answer something we'll be very vague. Which could mean anything. I hate lying. But if I don't want someone to know something, I talk myself into believing being vague isn't exactly lying. But if they ask me very specific questions... I can't help but answer. (not to say we don't lie, but I, for one, really don't like to.)

So be wary of an ISTP that answers vaguely... as we are hiding something

I've noticed that with him. Unless I am very specific, he may not even answer a direct question. Or statement. Or anything that a normal person would know to reply to.

I don't think he'd lie to me. He is rather blunt. I don't want to confront him, though, unless it goes further.

 

[StephMC]

Same with ESTPs, too, that's something that's distinctive about us and is actually described by Keirsey. It was interesting for me because although my expression of my type has fluctuated over the years (quiet, or emotional), that's one of the things I've always been very good at.

Interesting.... I've always known that about myself, but I never read anything about it with MBTI yet. So yay! Finally found proof

I've noticed that with him. Unless I am very specific, he may not even answer a direct question. Or statement. Or anything that a normal person would know to reply to.

I don't think he'd lie to me. He is rather blunt. I don't want to confront him, though, unless it goes further.

That's pretty fair. If I were in his shoes, I would want that too. I feel kinda awkward and silly if people misinterpret me... and it's almost like negative reinforcement. So I'd confront him only if this continues or gets worse

 

[Coeur]

Interesting.... I've always known that about myself, but I never read anything about it with MBTI yet. So yay! Finally found proof


That's pretty fair. If I were in his shoes, I would want that too. I feel kinda awkward and silly if people misinterpret me... and it's almost like negative reinforcement. So I'd confront him only if this continues or gets worse

Yeah. Because I love the affection. I got nothing for 2 years, and so the difference is wonderful.

 

[Kingfisher]

well i really agree strongly with almost everything you are saying, Steph.

here is a though i have, though-

Basically, I don't -think- he's trying to be more than just friends. Believe it or not, I'm very loving and affectionate with friends I value, especially if I know they're struggling. I freely use "I love you" with my guy friends (I try with my girl friends.. but it's weird.) Physical affection from us does not equal romantic. However, I will only use physical affection with my CLOSEST, most VALUED friends.

my first sense was that his showing affection, kissing and etc, was a pretty strong sign of a romantic interest. that is not something i feel comfortable doing with friends, i don't dislike hugging people, but i never initiate it unless it is a totally romantic thing. and kissing, that is always 100% romantic for me, same with saying i love you - that is a rare phrase indeed for me. i guess i will say it in a joking way often, but not in my grown-up voice.
so my impression was that there is a romantic interest, but he may be waiting for you, Coeur, to show romantic interest in return. or he may be holding back his romantic attention/feelings for you because he knows it will soon turn in to a long-distance relationship. i think ISTPs are very poor at maintaining long-distance relationships, and we see them as a bad idea, or at least an impossibility.

When we don't want to answer something we'll be very vague. Which could mean anything. I hate lying. But if I don't want someone to know something, I talk myself into believing being vague isn't exactly lying. But if they ask me very specific questions... I can't help but answer.

yeah, that really rings true for me. i will be very vague about things i don't want to share, but when somebody asks me a direct question (that is impossible to interpret any way but literaly), i just flat out answer the question. it is like our kryptonite. "shit, i don't want to tell you, but you are being so direct! damn it! i guess i have to tell you." hahaha!

by the way, i am sure vagueness is an SP thing, not just STP. we don't have the market cornered on this one, SFPs make vagueness an ART. they are not only vague as hell, they are CONFUSING at the same time! haha! it is great though, i think it's hilarious!

 

[KarenParker]

If he was really happy with his current girlfriend, he would not be kissing you and saying I love you to you. UNLESS he just likes the attention and doesn't give a crap about how his girlfriend would feel about that or possibly you for that matter.

 

[stellar renegade]

Interesting.... I've always known that about myself, but I never read anything about it with MBTI yet. So yay! Finally found proof

Haha, I know, right?

That's pretty fair. If I were in his shoes, I would want that too. I feel kinda awkward and silly if people misinterpret me... and it's almost like negative reinforcement. So I'd confront him only if this continues or gets worse

Yep!

yeah, that really rings true for me. i will be very vague about things i don't want to share, but when somebody asks me a direct question (that is impossible to interpret any way but literaly), i just flat out answer the question. it is like our kryptonite. "shit, i don't want to tell you, but you are being so direct! damn it! i guess i have to tell you." hahaha!

Yep! I have a strict standard of honesty, but avoiding giving a real answer is perfectly fine with me as long as I can get away with it.

Here's what I wrote about it on the Keirsey forum:

Somebody found out our secret!!!

Dude, seriously. If you want to avoid being conned, be very, very demanding for concrete, extremely detailed answers, because it will spoil the Promoter's natural use of ambiguous language to hide what's really going on. I use this tactic quite often if I want to get away with something. It works quite well until somebody keeps pushing for extremely detailed answers, looking for a practical result. Eventually I can't be ambiguous enough anymore and just have to give up the game.

Which sucks when I feel like they have no right to know...

by the way, i am sure vagueness is an SP thing, not just STP. we don't have the market cornered on this one, SFPs make vagueness an ART. they are not only vague as hell, they are CONFUSING at the same time! haha! it is great though, i think it's hilarious!

Hm, you might be right... I've noticed my brother seems to have a handle on this, as well...

 

[stellar renegade]

Actually, I'm probably not the best person to ask about this anyway, that's why I kept going back and forth on this. I just failed in reading a girl's signals a couple weeks ago when I thought that she liked me (guess I was too hopeful or cocky?) only for her to now send some more signals. Girls can be strange like that.

I also tend to let my emotions get the best of me in this one area.

Anyway, probably the best determining factor to consider is how willing he is to show any level of this affection in front of his girlfriend. Probably not at the same level, understandably, especially if he feels she wouldn't understand, but my inclination is that if these are signs that he likes you that he won't be willing to even give the quick hug or other more subtle shows of affection in front of her for fear of giving himself away (an STP would be able to read it, so they're watchful in case others might be able to read it, too).

 

[phoenity]

I don't think he'd initiate a romance without you pretty much asking for it. We don't like to assume things, so even if you gave him subtle hints that's what you wanted, he probably still wouldn't do it. Now if -he- wanted something from you, he probably would search for data from you. Ask you weird questions, try to spend more time with you, etc., etc.

Basically, I don't -think- he's trying to be more than just friends. Believe it or not, I'm very loving and affectionate with friends I value, especially if I know they're struggling. I freely use "I love you" with my guy friends (I try with my girl friends.. but it's weird.) Physical affection from us does not equal romantic. However, I will only use physical affection with my CLOSEST, most VALUED friends.

He obviously holds your friendship highly. He just wants you to feel loved by him. I know it can be confusing, but if you want to know, just come out and ask... just e-mail him or something. He won't bullshit around.

Then again.... maybe a guy ISTP has a totally different view on this.

This was essentially my thinking after reading Coeur's initial post. I'm not surprised I'm agreeing with you yet again Steph

So you've known this guy for two years now. Personally, that's a reasonable amount of time required for me to get close to someone, especially someone I consider only as a friend.

I don't have any close friendships with women, but I can say that I would likely be physically affectionate towards them if I perceived them as the type who would appreciate it, without perceiving it to be something it wasn't. My guy friends don't want any physical affection because that's just not manly.

As I'm maturing, I'm becoming more open to my friends and family, not necessarily saying since it's difficult to find the words, but doing things to let them know I care and value them. They know I'm very reserved and private, but I don't want them to perceive me as cold and disconnected because that's not me at all, so I'm slowly finding my ways to give love.

Your friend told you he loved you, and expressed how special and rare that was for him to say it. I would completely agree this is the same for me, especially with close platonic friendships. It would be much easier for me to tell a close friend I loved them, than it would be to tell a woman, whom I was in love with , that I loved her because I feel much more vulnerable in that situation.

There are many possibilities in this situation. Since I am not part of it and don't have all the details, I will not say with certainty that any is correct.

It's entirely possible that he has romantic interest in you, and has taken his sweet time expressing it, but has finally found some guts. I think this is unlikely if he's anything like me though. Even if I have feelings for someone, I need LOTS of cues from them that they feel the same way before I make myself vulnerable expressing those. So I will likely not be the one to make the first move like you may perceive him to be doing here. He also has a girlfriend, and I while I can't speak for him, I just don't play like that.

What I think is more likely is that his new girlfriend has softened him up a lot. Expressing love to her has maybe opened him up to realizing all the other people in his life who he values. If he's comfortable in his relationship, personally I wouldn't see any reason why he wouldn't be comfortable being physically affectionate to his friends that he knows would respond well to it.



I would say just enjoy it for what it is. If you aren't sure what it is and what it means, and you really must know, there are a few ways to go about it. Ask him about his relationship in a friendly way. If he talks openly about it, especially about how happy he is with her, chances are good that he's not after a romantic relationship with you. If he's vague and avoids the conversation, it could be the other way. If you absolutely have to know, and perceive these things to be mixed signals, ask him directly. He will understand and probably appreciate you clearing up the confusion.

Yeah. Because I love the affection. I got nothing for 2 years, and so the difference is wonderful.

My bet is that he can tell you're a sweetheart and appreciates those little things, and that he's secure with his relationship so he's comfortable doing those things for you.

But really only you two know for certain and only time will tell.

 

[StephMC]

This was essentially my thinking after reading Coeur's initial post. I'm not surprised I'm agreeing with you yet again Steph

As I'm maturing, I'm becoming more open to my friends and family, not necessarily saying since it's difficult to find the words, but doing things to let them know I care and value them. They know I'm very reserved and private, but I don't want them to perceive me as cold and disconnected because that's not me at all, so I'm slowly finding my ways to give love.

Your friend told you he loved you, and expressed how special and rare that was for him to say it. I would completely agree this is the same for me, especially with close platonic friendships. It would be much easier for me to tell a close friend I loved them, than it would be to tell a woman, whom I was in love with , that I loved her because I feel much more vulnerable in that situation.

Yep, that's pretty much I was basing everything off of... I aspire to be more Fe, but because it's still developing, it comes off as awkward, forced, or out-of-no-where sometimes. I'd feel pretty comfortable telling a friend of 2+ years I was very close to that I loved them. I may even use a situation where they're feeling vulnerable or down about something to first say I love them and be affectionate (like how you lost your friend) because... well... I'm an opportunist, and I'd feel like I finally needed to let them know I care (because I know my indifferent persona may come off as uncaring to some). After that, I'd probably be more frequent with my affection. However, if I was -in- love with someone, I'd need a HUGE amount of reassurance from that person and their feelings for me before I felt comfortable telling them I loved them. That's probably one of the more vulnerable and exposed positions I can be put in, and I would not act as casual as you described your friend to be.

 

[rhinosaur]

All you stps are wacko.

Yeah......... pretty much.

 

[Coeur]

I don't have any close friendships with women, but I can say that I would likely be physically affectionate towards them if I perceived them as the type who would appreciate it, without perceiving it to be something it wasn't. My guy friends don't want any physical affection because that's just not manly.

Same with him. I am the ONLY female friend that he is close to. He has an extremely hard time "liking" girls. He's very cuddly with his close guy friends, though.

What I think is more likely is that his new girlfriend has softened him up a lot. Expressing love to her has maybe opened him up to realizing all the other people in his life who he values. If he's comfortable in his relationship, personally I wouldn't see any reason why he wouldn't be comfortable being physically affectionate to his friends that he knows would respond well to it.

Very, very true. He's become SO much nicer ever since he started dating her. Which is why I love them together. He's a lot happier with her than he was when he was just hooking up with random people. He talks openly about her in the same way I talk openly about other guys.

The affection level increased gradually. Instead of only insulting me, he'd say something nice. Then, he'd say nice things more often. After he said I love you was when the affection level escalated to the current state. I said it back to him, of course, so maybe that is what made him comfortable?

 

[phoenity]

Same with him. I am the ONLY female friend that he is close to. He has an extremely hard time "liking" girls. He's very cuddly with his close guy friends, though.



Very, very true. He's become SO much nicer ever since he started dating her. Which is why I love them together. He's a lot happier with her than he was when he was just hooking up with random people. He talks openly about her in the same way I talk openly about other guys.

The affection level increased gradually. Instead of only insulting me, he'd say something nice. Then, he'd say nice things more often. After he said I love you was when the affection level escalated to the current state. I said it back to him, of course, so maybe that is what made him comfortable?

Insulting you?? Hmm...perhaps you mean friendly teasing, something he would do with his guy friends?

He can probably just see that you respond well to his compliments, you take them for what they are and you aren't awkward about it, pondering the intent behind them. He can probably see you blush, your eyes light up, and your smile widen, and knows that it makes you happy.

I'd just enjoy it for what it is. If you think there's more to it and you really need to know for sure, ask very specifically like Steph said.

 

[Coeur]

Insulting you?? Hmm...perhaps you mean friendly teasing, something he would do with his guy friends?

He can probably just see that you respond well to his compliments, you take them for what they are and you aren't awkward about it, pondering the intent behind them. He can probably see you blush, your eyes light up, and your smile widen, and knows that it makes you happy.

I'd just enjoy it for what it is. If you think there's more to it and you really need to know for sure, ask very specifically like Steph said.

Yeah, I mean teasing. But he would ONLY tease me. No compliments at all. We went to a dance together and he didn't tell me I looked nice until I brought it up. XD

 

[stellar renegade]

Same with him. I am the ONLY female friend that he is close to. He has an extremely hard time "liking" girls. He's very cuddly with his close guy friends, though.

Okay, that makes a whole lot more sense now! Thanks for providing that information (why didn't you think of that before?? )

Very, very true. He's become SO much nicer ever since he started dating her. Which is why I love them together. He's a lot happier with her than he was when he was just hooking up with random people. He talks openly about her in the same way I talk openly about other guys.

The affection level increased gradually. Instead of only insulting me, he'd say something nice. Then, he'd say nice things more often. After he said I love you was when the affection level escalated to the current state. I said it back to him, of course, so maybe that is what made him comfortable?

That's great.

Yeah, I have a friend who I think is an ISTP, and he's VERY cuddly in person. On the net he can be a real ass on purpose but in person he's very affectionate and friendly, even somewhat shy (at least reserved).

But he and his ex (they were really close) whenever they saw me, I was sure to get several hugs and love you's, from both of them. It was amazing and I could never wait until the next time we hung out.

 

[Coeur]

Okay, that makes a whole lot more sense now! Thanks for providing that information (why didn't you think of that before?? )

I don't know! XD

I'll add more, though. He used to be a really nice guy, but he got screwed over by this girl he had a huge crush on. After that he was a jerk to anyone to wasn't his friend. He's only had one girlfriend [the current one] since that.

 

[Jeffster]

Next time you're with him, you should take your shirt off. If he laughs and gives you the wtf face, then he's not interested and you can just tell him you were messing with him. If he makes a move, then he's interested in you.

Either way, you have your answer.

 

[Coeur]

Next time you're with him, you should take your shirt off. If he laughs and gives you the wtf face, then he's not interested and you can just tell him you were messing with him. If he makes a move, then he's interested in you.

Either way, you have your answer.

I really can't imagine doing that.

But you're right, it would give me a clear answer.

 

[Halla74]

Next time you're with him, you should take your shirt off. If he laughs and gives you the wtf face, then he's not interested and you can just tell him you were messing with him. If he makes a move, then he's interested in you.

Either way, you have your answer.

Jeffster, you are wise and great and good...