[ESTP] Changing into an ESTP?

[BlackCat]

It's hard to be honest with yourself. When I started being honest though some things started being lower and lower as I took it... When I first took the test Fe and Ni were very high up there. I was lying to myself. Then I realized what I was doing, now I answer things as they are and realize my weaknesses. Thus Fe being at the bottom now.

It's your choice as to how to use an instrument. Anyone can lie to themselves to be a certain type too.

 

["?"]

Duh...? So then are you asserting that BlackCat was either lying or mistaken?

Take the test and put in whatever you want. I am not saying that Black Cat is lying, I am saying that the test does not have preventive measures to keep you from remaining objective. It will allow you to claim 0-100% any functions. Hell anyone can claim any function order. However, Jung and Myers-Briggs both state you cannot.

From that passage I see that Jung is saying that you can only have one dominant function. I never disagreed with that.

Then keep reading, because he clearly says that a feeling function cannot equate to the thinking function if dominant and vice-versa.

I disagreed with your assertion that the functions were zero sum. That increasing one function decreased it's opposite.

And I am only in agreement that one or the other per Beebe and/or Thompson may agree. However, as stated the test given by Black Cat will allow me to purport any function(s) to be dominant or equal to even the dominant function.

You are the one who made this assertion, therefore the burden of proof is on you to prove that this is the case.

Thought I just did. He says that feeling and thinking functions cannot be equal. Your turn.

 

["?"]

It's hard to be honest with yourself. When I started being honest though some things started being lower and lower as I took it... When I first took the test Fe and Ni were very high up there. I was lying to myself. Then I realized what I was doing, now I answer things as they are and realize my weaknesses. Thus Fe being at the bottom now.

It's your choice as to how to use an instrument. Anyone can lie to themselves to be a certain type too.

Thanks for the honesty Black Cat, but it was never in question and thanks for appreciating the principles of Jung's theory.

 

[Costrin]

Take the test and put in whatever you want. I am not saying that Black Cat is lying, I am saying that the test does not have preventive measures to keep you from remaining objective. It will allow you to claim 0-100% any functions. Hell anyone can claim any function order. However, Jung and Myers-Briggs both state you cannot.

Yes. This is obvious. This happens in all assessments of this nature.

Then keep reading, because he clearly says that a feeling function cannot equate to the thinking function if dominant and vice-versa.

If dominant. Ok, yeah. I didn't disagree with this.

And I am only in agreement that one or the other per Beebe and/or Thompson may agree. However, as stated the test given by Black Cat will allow me to purport any function(s) to be dominant or equal to even the dominant function.

All such tests will allow you to be untruthful. What do you propose then would be a good way of providing evidence to you?

Thought I just did. He says that feeling and thinking functions cannot be equal. Your turn.

You quoted Jung. Where is Jung's evidence?

 

["?"]

You quoted Jung. Where is Jung's evidence?

Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.

 

[Costrin]

Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.

First, I believe it is role, not strength that determines type. Second, I never stated that opposite functions could be used equally. Perhaps it is true that that is the case, but I am not prepared to make that claim. However, it is clear that even if not equally, an increase in one function does not automatically decrease the use of its opposite, as you claimed. Third, perhaps it is bunk, then what?

 

[Jeffster]

Everytime we have a conscious thought. If what you claim to be true Costrin, then the entire system is bunk since there can be no hierarchy of functions per Myers-Briggs, no shadow functions per Naomi Quenck and Joe Butts, no succession of functions per Lenore Thompson, Dario Nardi, Linda V. Berens and John Beebe and let's face it no type theory per Jung. The system would be for naught since any cognitive function could equate to any other at any given time. If I can use Ti-Fe equally, then I can use Se-Ni, Te-Fi, Ni-Se equally well.

I think you're finally barking up the right tree!

 

[Little Linguist]

As a kid before the age of of 13-14 I was defiantly not an ESTP. I used to avoid people and day dream! Yes thats right I was an INTP

I'd like to challenge those who think your MBTI type cannot change over time. I decided I didn't like who I was back then at all. I remember having very few friends...

So I stopped being that daydreamer that was constantly thinking of all sorts of random ideas, started living in the now, became more aware of my surroundings and finally started interacting more with people... and you know what.

ITS GREAT

Heres to being ESTP!
Luke

| E 60% | S 60% | T 90% | P 95% |

Of course your MBTI can change over time. And I'm changing mine to ESFP...!

 

["?"]

First, I believe it is role, not strength that determines type. Second, I never stated that opposite functions could be used equally. Perhaps it is true that that is the case, but I am not prepared to make that claim. However, it is clear that even if not equally, an increase in one function does not automatically decrease the use of its opposite, as you claimed. Third, perhaps it is bunk, then what?

Sorry Costrin, I have to disagree. If it is roles then, how can you determine best fit type? Am I the person that my co-workers see, my family observes or who I am when alone with no need to put on a facade? I choose the latter since clearly the role(s) that I play do not define me and I know when I am playing a role.

I am not sure what you meant to imply but if you say that with the increase of one function, another function of opposite value (Ti-Fe) does not increase then logically I would infer that regardless of how strong my Ti my Fe doesn't weaken, ergo it can develop equally. Or are you saying that there is a limit to how developed a weaker function can become? Not sure what you are saying at this point. As for your final assertion, then if you claim the whole type system is bunk clearly we are having a moot discussion.

 

[Unique]

Bump

Reason?

<<<

 

[Athenian200]

Huh. Now that you mention it, I was different when I was a kid as well. Difference is, I became MORE the daydreamer/quiet type.

When I was younger (6 or less)... let's just say I did things like squirt my mom in the face with a squirt gun and take a picture of her because I thought she looked funny when she was mad. Oh, and I also took advantage of an opportunity to runaway from daycare while the teacher was out of the room, even sidling under a security camera and crawling in front of a counter to avoid being detected. I apparently also took advantage of a low net on the outside wall of a playground in a bookstore to steal a book (didn't get caught, and they didn't believe it had been stolen when she tried to pay for it), though I don't remember it. My mom says I did it, though. I'd NEVER do anything like that now.

I basically went from being like that, to being like I am now. I think it was basically because I realized on some level, "Okay, planning stuff out ahead of time, thinking before you act... leads to good things happening. Taking advantage of an opportunity without knowing what you're getting yourself into... gets you in trouble and makes bad things happen." So I adopted the former approach over the latter. And I actually do prefer the way I am now.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Bump

Reason?

<<<

What's your reasoning behind this type change? I recall you saying intuition was useless and the world could do without it. And you seem as blatantly not N to me (no offense).

This reminds me of something:

I think that many S's feel they need to change to N after reading this forum for a while.

I agree. And Fs to Ts, Es to Is, and Js to Ps. Until we reach le ultimate type -- INTP

I'm enjoying how everyone seems to be all of a sudden having this relevation that they are INTP.

 

[ajblaise]

I'm enjoying how everyone seems to be all of a sudden having this relevation that they are INTP.

Yup. It's totally lame. We should have an INTP entrance exam.

 

[Athenian200]

Yup. It's totally lame. We should have an INTP entrance exam.

There was a time when I thought INTPs were considerably dumber than INTJs because of their poor spelling/grammar, seeming inability to use a dictionary, and the fact that everything I said seemed to go over their head unless I made it simple and obvious. I noticed that most of these INTPs seemed to rely mostly on their right-brain (and were actually very intelligent in this regard), but had horrendous left-brain skills.

Then I saw another group of INTPs who spelled/punctuated correctly, and sometimes described things so technically I had to read them more than once to understand them. So I decided, "Okay, some of these people are obviously different types... they just CAN'T all be the same type."

You definitely need to start screening these people, lest someone else hit a pocket of "INTPs" like the ones in the first paragraph.

I think what attracts a lot of people to the INTP description, is that they see "INTP" and "Ti-Ne" as meaning "Ooh! I think for myself, don't let anyone tell me what to do, and I'm creative, I must be an INTP. Durr."

 

[Unique]

What's your reasoning behind this type change? I recall you saying intuition was useless and the world could do without it. And you seem as blatantly not N to me (no offense).

This reminds me of something:

I'm enjoying how everyone seems to be all of a sudden having this relevation that they are INTP.

You are mistaken, my theory was that you don't need intuition to operate everyday life as much as you need sensing my view on this has not changed.

You will notice this thread is quite old, its not a recent discovery I've suspected that something was inconsistent

I expected such ludicrously and hostility for no reason from you though

Edit. It should be noted that I have never said that "intuition was useless" and lauren ashley is wrong headed

There was a time when I thought INTPs were considerably dumber than INTJs because of their poor spelling/grammar, seeming inability to use a dictionary, and the fact that everything I said seemed to go over their head unless I made it simple and obvious. I noticed that most of these INTPs seemed to rely mostly on their right-brain (and were actually very intelligent in this regard), but had horrendous left-brain skills.

Then I saw another group of INTPs who spelled/punctuated correctly, and sometimes described things so technically I had to read them more than once to understand them. So I decided, "Okay, some of these people are obviously different types... they just CAN'T all be the same type."

You definitely need to start screening these people, lest someone else hit a pocket of "INTPs" like the ones in the first paragraph.

I think what attracts a lot of people to the INTP description, is that they see "INTP" and "Ti-Ne" as meaning "Ooh! I think for myself, don't let anyone tell me what to do, and I'm creative, I must be an INTP. Durr."

I have not been one of those people who jumped up straight away and yelled I'm INTP! This discovery has taken me a long time.

It's so human really, to question those who took the longest rather than people who claim they are a certain type after reading one description

This has been the 3rd and final adjustment to my personality (Oh and mind you I still see ESTP as one of the most ideal personalities and envy those with it)

It's not like I'm making a sudden random move, I am simply on the road of self discovery

Though I suspected this would be treated rather hostilely

I find it humorous that people think I want to be INTP to be part of some kind of 'internet' fan club, on the contrary I've found it impossible to fit in anywhere and hardly see INTP as the ideal personality type but its something rather than I have to live with being different

I hope however that I can find some people to relate to

I also hope that others are not so hostile

 

[BlackCat]

I hope however that I can find some people to relate to

I also hope that others are not so hostile

Well, I'm sure you remember that talk that we had over Vent, and how much we related.

Welcome to the borderline S and N train. It is quite difficult to find common ground with anyone isn't it? Since you're also on the border of T and F (like me). Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[Unique]

Well, I'm sure you remember that talk that we had over Vent, and how much we related.

Welcome to the borderline S and N train. It is quite difficult to find common ground with anyone isn't it? Since you're also on the border of T and F (like me). Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Yeah indeed thank you for reminding me, it should be noted that I've always tested borderline on the S/N

We do relate well I actually score high on T though lately have been more F due to some personal things I've been going through

We should chat soon man

Edit. Thought I might quote myself and note how long ago this post was made 12-03-2008, 05:34 PM

I've realized its possible I'm an ENTP but my N/S has always been very close.

Hardly making this a spontaneous or frivolous decision

 

[BlackCat]

Yeah definitely, been going to school and having to wake up at 6 am... so a weekend would be best or a Thursday/Friday night via vent. If I see you in there I'll get ya.

But really, good luck on finding common ground. Here's a question- How exactly did you relate to ISTPs before? And how do you relate to INTPs now?

Also the interaction styles for ISTP vs INTP are different, here they are-

Chart-the-Course Is the ISTP's.

Behind-the-Scenes Is the INTP's.

Also be sure to check out their type profiles.

For now I have to leave, damn early classes.

 

[Halla74]

Hey my Brother, please see my notes below your quotes. Remeber, Halla does not care what type you are, I'll always think of you as "The Monopoly Man!"

This has been the 3rd and final adjustment to my personality (Oh and mind you I still see ESTP as one of the most ideal personalities and envy those with it)

It's not like I'm making a sudden random move, I am simply on the road of self discovery...

Understood, so your journey has been:

ESTP -> ISTP....

...and then...

Yeah indeed thank you for reminding me, it should be noted that I've always tested borderline on the S/N

ISTP -> INTP

Am I correct?

So, I cannot help to be compelled to ponder on the possiblilty that you are:

XXTP

What are the odds of that? A good friend of mine is balanced on E/I, and I know when he is choosing one mode of thought over another as I hear from him less when he is in the "I" zone.

By your own admission your N/S scores are "middle of the road" so maybe a type of "X" is warranted there too?

Thus XXTP might be your "base" or your "default" and what your are experiencing in your life causes a shift in your E/I or N/S preference.

How's that sound?

I hope however that I can find some people to relate to

I also hope that others are not so hostile

You've related to people here very well for a long time methinks. Remember, anyone who is unecessarily hostile is either rude or uncomfortable in their own skin. Ignore them, or simply point out that their commentary is not warranted or desired. Don't risk getting naughty points.

Take it easy fella! You can always chat with your ESTP Bro over here! :hi:

 

[phoenity]

my theory was that you don't need intuition to operate everyday life as much as you need sensing my view on this has not changed.

That sounds to me like a natural preference for sensing.

Everyone has both S and N functions. But type is dependent on which we use dominantly. Don't bother relating to people or type descriptions. Understand the functions, then actively observe yours and others thinking to see how yours compare.

The older I get, the more I seem to be in my head daydreaming or thinking, and realizing this always makes me second-guess myself. How do I know I don't have a preference for it? Because I can wake myself up out of it.

Do you primarily use Ne or Ni?

INTPs and ENTPs use Ne, dominantly. XSTPs use Ni, subconsciously. I know, without a doubt, from hanging around my INTP and ENTP friends and observing the jumps they make in their conversation and thoughts, that I absolutely do not have a dominant preference for Ne. In fact, I have to ask them to go back sometimes when describing something, because they jump too far ahead, skipping important details that help me understand.

While we are all thinkers, I approach things from a completely different angle. They see big-picture possibilities. I see the realistic application and holes in those possibilities.