• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Intuitards: Do all Sensors suck?

sassafrassquatch

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
961
Most people here are iNtuitives and don't seem to think much of Sensors and I thought that was a bit harsh. Today it occured to me that most of the S types do acutally suck.

There are 4 SJs (tyrants :rules:) and 2 ESxPs (loud :banana:) not to mention the overlap of ESxJs :peepwall:.

So that's 6 out of 8 Sensors with the potential to be very annoying people. That Leaves the ISxPs, who I don't think would be exceptionally annoying since the ISTPs would be off by themselves tinkering and the ISFPs would be alone doing creative ISFP things. None of this is to say that Ns are the pinnacle of human evolution or anything. I shouldn't have to remind you that the ENTJ Evil Overlord is in your camp.
 
Last edited:

Sahara

New member
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
I personally don't look down on someone just for being an S, my closest friend is an SJ, who although falls into the SJ online description, doesn't actually fall into the way some people at these N forums describe them.

My issue isn't with the S and N divide lol, it's one of the other functions that I am more judgemental of.:D
 

sassafrassquatch

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
961
How could an ISxJ be a tyrant? We're introverted and unassuming people who sometimes have issues with low self-confidence.


Maybe ISFJs aren't tyrants but ISTJs are.

ISTJ: The Thought Police

ISTJs are characterized by loyalty, duty, and civic responsibility. As an ISTJ, you have a natural understanding of the value of civil harmony and order, and a deep-seated dislike of non-conformity, anarchy, and chaos.

For an ISTJ, work is very important to a sense of self-satisfaction. Happiness comes most easily for you when you have a job that allows you to express your ethic. Whether it's blasting traitorous rebel scum as a proud Imperial Stormtrooper or monitoring the population's cerebral implants searching for evidence of unauthorized thought patterns as one of the Thought Police, you're most satisfied when you are crushing the population beneath the iron boot heel of oppression on behalf of your masters.

RECREATION; ISTJs approach leisure with the same dedication they bring to spreading tyrrany and oppression. Common ISTJ pasttimes include cleaning their rifles, improving their marksmanship, betting on political dissidents in the Gladiator Arena, and macrame.

COMPATIBILITY: ISTJs are capable of stong emotional connections, bonding closely with the other ISTJs in their unit, platoon, or sector.

Famous ISTJs include TK-421, Torquemada, and Yuri Andropov.
 

Brendan

Guerilla Urbanist
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
911
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Most people here are iNtuitives and don't seem to think much of Sensors and I thought that was a bit harsh. Today it occured to me that most of the S types do acutally suck.

There are 4 SJs (tyrants :rules:) and 2 ESxPs (loud :banana:) not to mention the overlap of ESxJs :peepwall:.

So that's 6 out of 8 Sensors with the potential to be very annoying people. That Leaves the ISxPs, who I don't think would be exceptionally annoying since the ISTPs would be off by themselves tinkering and the ISFPs would be alone doing creative ISFP things. None of this is to say that Ns are the pinnacle of human evolution or anything. I shouldn't have to remind you that the ENTJ Evil Overlord is in your camp.
Hm. No.
 

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
Maybe ISFJs aren't tyrants but ISTJs are.

No, not necessarily. Being responsible, loyal and duty minded doesn't make one a tyrant. It can make living with one interesting, though. I imagine if you didn't have a strong will or sense of yourself it might be harder; and it would depend on how rounded the ISTJ was. But you can say that about any type.

While my husband can be trying, so can I. But when it comes to conflict more often than not he's the peacemaker or the one to back down (usually because I'm always right [lol]).
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
How could an ISxJ be a tyrant? We're introverted and unassuming people who sometimes have issues with low self-confidence.
I agree that's definitely a stretch. Surely ISFJs can't be guilty of everything - both martyrs and tyrants? Wow.


********************************
The history of this site is...
1. iNuitive Central, which eventually went belly up then everyone flocked to the existing ...
2. INTP Central, where some got frustrated having too many non-INTPs around necessitating...
3. MBTI Central.

There has never been a balanced representation of Sensors on these sites, from what i understand. Because of this, the concept of S has become a bit of a dumping ground for those traits the majority of posters don't care for. In this cyber-culture there is a distortion of information regarding what Sensing is actually all about. It's why so many posters are mis-identified as iNtuitives.

My impression of these sites along with what I know so far about MBTI suggests that a significant percentage of people identifying as Ns on all the above mentioned sites, are actually Ss and either don't realize it, or don't care to admit it. The percentage of ISTPs or at least IXTPs on INTPcentral is significant imo - including some rather high profile posters. (I could be wrong, since I can only base it on online personas). The same could well be true here. INFs can often be ISFs in reality. For some reason, the introverted types seem to most often get mis-identified between N and S.

There have been a few Sensors who have stuck it out through all the slap happy negativity, keeping a reasoned and sensible ( :D ) position. They do more to represent the Sensing preference than all the negative stereotypes do to tear it down.
 

Lateralus

New member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,262
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
Not all sensors suck, but I think a substantial majority of them are sheep. Sensors are more likely to believe government and corporate propaganda, because it's "practical". Sensors are more likely to submit to authority than to challenge it. That's a major problem with this country.

I find most sensors to be uninteresting and annoying. Not all are, and I appreciate most on this forum (and INTPc). This is just my horribly biased opinion from my interaction with them.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
There has never been a balanced representation of Sensors on these sites, from what i understand. Because of this, the concept of S has become a bit of a dumping ground for those traits the majority of posters don't care for. In this cyber-culture there is a distortion of information regarding what Sensing is actually all about. It's why so many posters are mis-identified as iNtuitives.

My impression of these sites along with what I know so far about MBTI suggests that a significant percentage of people identifying as Ns on all the above mentioned sites, are actually Ss and either don't realize it, or don't care to admit it. The percentage of ISTPs or at least IXTPs on INTPcentral is significant imo - including some rather high profile posters. (I could be wrong, since I can only base it on online personas). The same could well be true here. INFs can often be ISFs in reality. For some reason, the introverted types seem to most often get mis-identified between N and S.

There have been a few Sensors who have stuck it out through all the slap happy negativity, keeping a reasoned and sensible ( :D ) position. They do more to represent the Sensing preference than all the negative stereotypes do to tear it down.

I agree with you, I think there are many mistyped ISTPs on INTPc and and quite a few depressed ESFJs.

I've said this before but the S/N divide is the hardest to discern unless you're dealing with a person who is very heavily Sensing or Intuiting. I hate to pull my ace, but I talk to people A LOT. I probably talk to more people on a daily basis than most people here encounter in a week. If there's anything I do it's get out and interact with people and I'm telling you while most people have their default S or N, they very easily slide from one place to the other. I've taken the very same topics that come up on this forum to my coworkers and we get into very good discussions about them. I've brought topics that we talk about at work here and the same replies. Most people lie on the bell curve of S/N.
 

sassafrassquatch

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
961
I read a few other threads and this one seems kind of redundant now.

Meh. Too late. I was just airing an epiphany I had.
 

Economica

Dhampyr
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,054
MBTI Type
INTJ
I've said this before but the S/N divide is the hardest to discern unless you're dealing with a person who is very heavily Sensing or Intuiting.

Have you considered that as an ENFJ perhaps you're stellar at drawing out the iNtuitiveness of the Sensors you meet? :)

I know I have a hard time getting my S friends, acquaintances and coworkers interested in MBTI, let alone getting them to discuss the kind of topics we discuss here. And it's not because I disparage Sensing. I think I just present MBTI in too N a way. :(
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
No, not necessarily. Being responsible, loyal and duty minded doesn't make one a tyrant. It can make living with one interesting, though. I imagine if you didn't have a strong will or sense of yourself it might be harder; and it would depend on how rounded the ISTJ was. But you can say that about any type.

I understand where the martyr/tyrant concept for [male] ISTJs came from, at least in regards to the ones I have had as friends and/or acquaintances.

For many, there was an odd mix of passivity and not wanting to break the peace, coupled with very strong opinions about the way life and/or the world should be. (Often the topics of politics or religion will bring this conflict to the surface.) So they feel like the world is changing around them and things are going to hell in handbasket (either in their home, or in their workplace, or in society, or in their religious culture, etc... some sort of "institution" of which they have a clear internalized Si definition).

But when it comes to personal issues and strong emotions, they usually try to rein them in and not express them, because of the "illogic" -- and stuff them, become martyrish sometimes and usually just grumbling about their fate. When they finally cannot deal anymore, they can become very demanding and tyrant-like, clamping down on everyone else. And then they're prone to stuffing it again, if the demands do not change anything, going back to the martyr extreme and grumbling.

Other types do undergo similar stresses, but tend to react differently or not as extreme of a flip.

For an ISTJ tyrant with some martyr features, you could look at Ricky's father in "American Beauty," who actually would be considered actively abusive. But most ISTJ males are not dysfunctional like that, they just have the same level of issues as any other type.

Basically, the response depends heavily on the ISTJ's ability to deal with change in the external world, compared to his internal idealized world.

I cannot describe female ISTJs too well because I have only really known one in real life, and known OF another... and I think the female brain and socialization helps them to better mediate between the internal and external worlds and communicate better. The men tend to think more just in terms of power ("Do I assert myself, or do I just sit passively and hold my tongue?"), whereas the women are more willing to not internalize the entire thing.

Have you considered that as an ENFJ perhaps you're stellar at drawing out the iNtuitiveness of the Sensors you meet? :)

PM's post was good, but this factor must also be taken into consideration.
 

luridlemur

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
52
Bah. People are people. The type doesn't define the person; the person resembles aspects of the type. S's aren't inherently dumb (though to believe so, is), nor are intuitives necessarily brilliant. We usually assume that people with beliefs in accordance with our own, or who exhibit traits we admire, are more intelligent than the majority, but that mindset is at least a bit elitist and ego-stroking.

For instance I can't stand reading all the "Sure, coming from an S..." shit Shrimpei gets for being an SJ, when she is one of the more reasonable members on the forum. If you read a brilliant post, then look over and see the poster's type is ESFJ, would you dismiss what you just read and agreed with?

This sort of thinking is what gives MBTI and any kind of typology a bad name.


Okay, okay. /rant
 

Wolf

only bites when provoked
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,127
MBTI Type
INTJ
Not all sensors suck, but I think a substantial majority of them are sheep. Sensors are more likely to believe government and corporate propaganda, because it's "practical". Sensors are more likely to submit to authority than to challenge it. That's a major problem with this country.

I find most sensors to be uninteresting and annoying. Not all are, and I appreciate most on this forum (and INTPc). This is just my horribly biased opinion from my interaction with them.
Although this is true, you're seriously overestimating non-sensors. I had a discussion with an ENFP the other day that basically proved to me that they can be government/leadership-following sheep just like our sensor majority.

There is some difficulty relating, but I'm very introverted, and quite intuitive, so my jumps are often quite confusing to many a sensor, even many intuition-leaning people are left confused. I've worked to change myself so I make more sense, because when growing up my mix of intuitive leaps and intelligence resulted in a lot of difficulties with those rare times that I interacted with other people. The combination bothers me sometimes, and drove some of my method-teachers crazy because my mind could flat skip steps without ever cognitively touching the intermediate steps that they wanted to see. I somehow entirely automated these processes without thinking about it. I'm sure I still do it (in fact, I can think of a few examples this week), but it's not as glaringly-obvious due to the differences between academia and professional settings, since the latter doesn't care as much about the process as correct results, while the former is the opposite.
 

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
I suspect with the ISTJ I have the most interaction with the martyr aspect isn't an issue; the man loathes passive aggressiveness as much as I do. Perhaps growing up in a home with ESFPs tempered him? He is a lot more touchy feely than I am, and when it comes to communicating his feelings I think he does a better job than I do... I suspect the interaction we have plays a large part in things - how could it not.

I could see him running roughshot over someone else, if pushed far enough, though. His desire to get along and make things right seems stronger than his need to have things 'his way'. He will debate something until the cows come home, and he thinks if he talks long enough, and rationally enough he'll get you to see it his way. He's had to modify his approach dealing with me ;)
 

Lateralus

New member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,262
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
Although this is true, you're way overestimating non-sensors. I had a discussion with an ENFP the other day that basically proved to me that they can be government/leadership-following sheep just like most others.
I don't doubt this happens. I just think it's more likely for Ss than for Ns.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
For instance I can't stand reading all the "Sure, coming from an S..." shit Shrimpei gets for being an SJ, when she is one of the more reasonable members on the forum.

Word.

If you read a brilliant post, then look over and see the poster's type is ESFJ, would you dismiss what you just read and agreed with?

I would hope no one here would do something so stupid.

I suspect with the ISTJ I have the most interaction with the martyr aspect isn't an issue; the man loathes passive aggressiveness as much as I do. Perhaps growing up in a home with ESFPs tempered him? He is a lot more touchy feely than I am, and when it comes to communicating his feelings I think he does a better job than I do... I suspect the interaction we have plays a large part in things - how could it not.

It's hard to tell what is impacting what, honestly.

There are different flavors of ISTJ men even based on generation (Baby Boomer, Gen X, etc.), and the nuclear family in childhood (parents and siblings) has a profound influence as well. That's what makes delineating between type and environment so difficult.

My FIL tends to not get too aggressive -- he is mostly docile, and very kind-hearted. His parents died in a car accident when he was 2; he was adopted by a judge (a very strong and assertive xxTJ type; he got sent to military school in his teens; and so he has always been more of a follower and "not rock the boat" person, who just sometimes gets cranky when his environment is disturbed.

One of my friends growing up was a single child. His parents were the age of most of people's grandparents. His father was kind but very gruff, his mother was very doting. He tended to be more chatty like his mom. He was a Gen X'er, so he was more relaxed in his appearance and social conventions... but he was more irritable and prone to complaining and grumbling and waxing on about the ills of society.

What is the "normal" type of ISTJ? Did having an imposing authority figure as a father, who was obviously very demanding and rigorous in the home, cow my FIL and make him more docile.. coupled with the emotional pain of losing his parents, making it harder for him to want to broach emotional topics (because he tends to cry)? Or was the attachment to the mother (and her more chatty nature) accompanied by the relational reluctance of the father, coupled with him being a bit spoiled because he was the only child, allow my friend to feel more free to voice his own opinions, even if they were very negative? What exactly is the "natural" ISTJ, and what is the environmental influence?
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
I would hope no one here would do something so stupid.

:huh: Of course not.

This has never come up before... and it's not like the line right above this quote refers to it happening.

Nope. :steam:

(To be fair, if they agreed with the stance because it matched their own, they wouldn't dismiss it... they'd patronize the poster. "Wow, an enlightened ESFJ, who would of thought?")
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
(To be fair, if they agreed with the stance because it matched their own, they wouldn't dismiss it... they'd patronize the poster. "Wow, an enlightened ESFJ, who would of thought?")

All right. I concede THAT point. That happens a little too often for my tastes... although some types of people (we won't confine it to an MBTI type, to reduce controversy) get their jollies off poking fun at stereotypes by acting stereotypical.

[It is the stereotype being made fun of, NOT the ESFJ.]
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Not all sensors suck, but I think a substantial majority of them are sheep. Sensors are more likely to believe government and corporate propaganda, because it's "practical". Sensors are more likely to submit to authority than to challenge it. That's a major problem with this country.
Everyone is sheep. :yes: Sensors follow their shepherds while iNtuitives are those floaty, imaginary sheep you try to count when you fall asleep. Which ones are better? It's a tough call. :party2:


:harhar:
 
Top