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[ISTP] ISTPs need relationships too!

janey_girl

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
MBTI Type
INtJ
Wow, that sounds incredibly selfish when you put it that way, but ultimately I can't deny that it's true. Doing the things I love will always come first...hmm...maybe that's why I've not really had a serious relationship yet?
I don't really see it as selfish that his hobbies are important to him - well most of the time anyway.... It is part of who he is and I need to accept him "hobbies and all"... I don't see that I come second, but I know I'll never be out there ahead of his hobbies, it's either accept or move on...

I love my bicycle. I frequently fantasize about her beautiful curves and my next opportunity to get her between my hips and pump away.

Sometimes I think I would love for my partner to be into cycling, but then at the same time I don't. It's one of the things I do to get away from everything and everyone else in the world, and if I couldn't use it as an escape there could potentially be some issues.

He has used his motorcycle as an "escape" from being in his box - I understand it, although the first time he did this I can't deny I wasn't hurt. It is always going to be his thing so he always has somewhere to go, understanding this made it easier for me to understand a bit more about him.

Mostly, I think it's just him wanting to show you what he loves and for you to experience it the way he does. You don't have to love it, but he wants to show you his world. I'd say it's his way of opening up and letting you in.

I feel very privelidged that he wants to show and share this part of his world with me - to try and make me understand why he has a love for it, a love I'd never be able to compete with. I do feel let in and it means more to me than shallow romantic gestures which he never indulges in...

And who knows...motorcycling may not be your thing. Ultimately, what I think is important, for me at least, is that there is some kind of activity that both my partner and I enjoy doing together.

It might not be my thing, you're right... We do need to find that "mutual interest" we can appreciate together and by experimenting outside of comfort zones this could be achieved....

Is he aware of your need to see him? I'm only used to being receptive to my own needs because I can identify them. However, were I in a relationship I would want to be as receptive as possible to my partners' needs, because isn't that the point? But I can't do that if I don't know what they are...

Then again maybe you guys aren't that serious yet.

I have told him about this NEED by telling him that I miss him (usually in texts on an "evening off") he is ok with it... His usual (and very annoying) pattern is that say, we'll arrange to see each other on Thursday - this will be the Tuesday, then on the Thursday he'll go all weird and at about 2pm say he doesn't want to see me - I get upset as I've been looking forward to seeing him... Then at about 5:30/6pm he'll say he wants to see me.... Now I know this happens I don't contact him on the Thursday with a huge list of when I'm coming over etc as this is usually the thing that makes him go nutty - I leave it and wait for him to initiate the final plan... It's a control and power thing - he needs control and power and if he feels boxed in then he fights it... By taking away restrictions and letting him think there is no plan it makes planning easier - this sounds really :doh: but it works....

We are only in month 3 and I don't pretend to understand all of him, I tend to use my intuition and feeling to help me and it sort of works....

Thanks for your input phoenity - always good to hear it from the "other side"



He's not thinking longer term because that's not what he does. He only vaguely knows how he feels right now, that he enjoys the feeling of being with you. But he doesn't yet know what that means, or what the future might make of it. If it's substance you need to find, it'll come along. So just keep enjoying each other for now :)
 

phoenity

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Feb 27, 2008
Messages
472
I have told him about this NEED by telling him that I miss him (usually in texts on an "evening off") he is ok with it... His usual (and very annoying) pattern is that say, we'll arrange to see each other on Thursday - this will be the Tuesday, then on the Thursday he'll go all weird and at about 2pm say he doesn't want to see me - I get upset as I've been looking forward to seeing him... Then at about 5:30/6pm he'll say he wants to see me.... Now I know this happens I don't contact him on the Thursday with a huge list of when I'm coming over etc as this is usually the thing that makes him go nutty - I leave it and wait for him to initiate the final plan... It's a control and power thing - he needs control and power and if he feels boxed in then he fights it... By taking away restrictions and letting him think there is no plan it makes planning easier - this sounds really :doh: but it works....

We are only in month 3 and I don't pretend to understand all of him, I tend to use my intuition and feeling to help me and it sort of works....

Thanks for your input phoenity - always good to hear it from the "other side"

You're absolutely right. We need control and power over ourselves.

Unwillingness to commit to do something sounds just like me. I don't want to commit to doing something until I know I want to do it, which is usually at the last minute. This irritates the hell out of my J friend, but he understands that's just the way I am.

In an intimate relationship I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with this, especially if I knew how it made the other person feel. I would expect there to be more giving of myself and my time, ie commitment. And if I am unwilling to commit to something as simple as a request for my time on a single evening, then I would feel undeserving of the relationship.

It's important to let him know how you feel. Were someone send me a text message of "I miss you", I wouldn't quite know how to respond to that. Is that a simple statement? Or is there more to it - (as in your case) a longing for more of my time? Let him know how his unwillingness to commit to simple things makes you feel. If he truly cares, he will make an effort to be accommodating.

Please take this advice with a grain of salt. I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
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phoenity, your responses have been very insightful. Thank you for sharing them. :)
 

janey_girl

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
MBTI Type
INtJ
You're absolutely right. We need control and power over ourselves.
This is the crux of it, the power he needs is of himself...

Unwillingness to commit to do something sounds just like me. I don't want to commit to doing something until I know I want to do it, which is usually at the last minute. This irritates the hell out of my J friend, but he understands that's just the way I am.
It irritates me a lot - I am a planner (although more recently I have managed to "let go" of long term planning in favour of short term plans) - but even I need to have an idea of what I'm doing in the week... I try to "chill out" (very hard but I at least try!)

In an intimate relationship I wouldn't expect to be able to get away with this, especially if I knew how it made the other person feel. I would expect there to be more giving of myself and my time, ie commitment. And if I am unwilling to commit to something as simple as a request for my time on a single evening, then I would feel undeserving of the relationship.
I think he is a less mature ISTP than you are and is learning that others do need to know what they are doing and that they do have plans. I find "giving a taste of ones own medicine" works well with him, if he experiences what the other person is feeling he has a greater understanding of it.... Last week I was very vague about seeing him, he had an essay he needed to complete and needed my help with and I indicated I might not be over, this made him flip ever so slightly - but gave him an insight into how his need to "control" can make me feel... It sounds pretty manipulative, but I have tried other methods without success...

It's important to let him know how you feel. Were someone send me a text message of "I miss you", I wouldn't quite know how to respond to that. Is that a simple statement? Or is there more to it - (as in your case) a longing for more of my time? Let him know how his unwillingness to commit to simple things makes you feel. If he truly cares, he will make an effort to be accommodating.
I tell him what I mean by "missing him" - he is still not sure on the concept and there have been times when I have sent him sweet texts and he can't handle the emotion in them - it's almost as though, if I'm not physically there he can't take them in the same way if he is involved in something else. He calls it his "one focus mindset" as an INFJ my mind can often be very involved in a great number of concepts without issue - I do need to remember he doesn't function in the same way.

Please take this advice with a grain of salt. I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
Your advice is very useful and insightful - knowing what limits I can push and what ideas he might be willing to accept and what I should put up with is all useful stuff....
 

phoenity

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Feb 27, 2008
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472
I think he is a less mature ISTP than you are and is learning that others do need to know what they are doing and that they do have plans. I find "giving a taste of ones own medicine" works well with him, if he experiences what the other person is feeling he has a greater understanding of it.... Last week I was very vague about seeing him, he had an essay he needed to complete and needed my help with and I indicated I might not be over, this made him flip ever so slightly - but gave him an insight into how his need to "control" can make me feel... It sounds pretty manipulative, but I have tried other methods without success...

Wow, I must say that sounds oddly familiar. :D

Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

Kind of like how you might deal with a child or a pet...wait I'm comparing myself to a what? :doh:







Your advice is very useful and insightful - knowing what limits I can push and what ideas he might be willing to accept and what I should put up with is all useful stuff....

Thank you and good luck in your relationship :)

Beautiful avatar by the way!
 

janey_girl

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
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INtJ
Wow, I must say that sounds oddly familiar. :D
Hmmm - so it's not just my ISTP then?

Some people just have to learn things the hard way.
It took me time but I found out that it is the only way he really can learn/understand.... Not a route I would naturally choose, but if it works on him I think it's the best way forward....

Kind of like how you might deal with a child or a pet...wait I'm comparing myself to a what? :doh:
LOL - thing is, even his friends sometimes say I have a big kid on my hands...

Thank you and good luck in your relationship :)

Beautiful avatar by the way!
Thanks for that! Your Avatar "inspired" me as I felt a bit bare not having one before!
 

phoenity

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Feb 27, 2008
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472
Hmmm - so it's not just my ISTP then?


It took me time but I found out that it is the only way he really can learn/understand.... Not a route I would naturally choose, but if it works on him I think it's the best way forward....


LOL - thing is, even his friends sometimes say I have a big kid on my hands...


Thanks for that! Your Avatar "inspired" me as I felt a bit bare not having one before!

When I was much less mature and more self-centered, I had trouble seeing things from another point of view, especially when I wanted something, until the tables were turned on me and I could see first hand.

I eventually changed when it became apparent to me that not everyone thinks the same way I do or has the same values. It's all about being considerate of others (Fe), and realizing the appreciation you receive in return feels awesome and is usually reciprocated :)


I still consider myself the same child I was when I was younger. The only difference being I get to play with the big-boy toys and nobody can tell me "No"! :D
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
580
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4w5
I still consider myself the same child I was when I was younger. The only difference being I get to play with the big-boy toys and nobody can tell me "No"! :D


Last weekend, when I was driving on the highway, a guy on a motorcycle came zooming by (way over the speed limit) then started tilting his motorcycle back and forth way up ahead. After that I saw him riding it standing up. In the past, I would have dismissed him as being an idiot who was going to end up getting himself killed. After reading more about ISTPs, however, I realized that he was probably an ISTP, and was experiencing pure Se joy weaving in and out of the traffic, feeling the air rush by and the sun shining on his body. He was probably very in control of that motorcycle and very aware of the movements of all of the cars around him. Cool. Then, I started thinking about what it must be like to experience life that way, and realized that I sort of had that kind of intense sensory experience when I was a child. Maybe ISTPs retain that kind of intense awareness of things that we all experience in childhood?
 

phoenity

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Feb 27, 2008
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experiencing pure Se joy weaving in and out of the traffic, feeling the air rush by and the sun shining on his body.

Just a few of the things I love so much about riding my bicycle. :D

Grinding away at 25mph powered only by my body, I get into this hypnotic rhythm, where everything else but my immediate surroundings disappear. As aero as can be slicing through the air, I no longer feel bound to the earth, and it's the closest I've ever been to feeling like a bird in flight.

It's even better if I sit up, close my eyes, and spread my arms out like wings.

He was probably very in control of that motorcycle and very aware of the movements of all of the cars around him. Cool. Then, I started thinking about what it must be like to experience life that way, and realized that I sort of had that kind of intense sensory experience when I was a child. Maybe ISTPs retain that kind of intense awareness of things that we all experience in childhood?

:yes:

:yes:

:yes:

I'm sure it's still with you.
 
Joined
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Just a few of the things I love so much about riding my bicycle. :D

Grinding away at 25mph powered only by my body, I get into this hypnotic rhythm, where everything else but my immediate surroundings disappear. As aero as can be slicing through the air, I no longer feel bound to the earth, and it's the closest I've ever been to feeling like a bird in flight.

It's even better if I sit up, close my eyes, and spread my arms out like wings.


:yes:

:yes:

:yes:

I'm sure it's still with you.

Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

My Se has been neglected for a long time... I'd like to do something about that. It would be nice to experience life in a different way for a change and not have my head in the clouds.:)
 

maliafee

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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
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Well, according to theory, ESFJ should match best with ISTP for long-term "fulfilling" relationships.

But I wonder how well that works out in practice...?

That can't be right. The same theory says I (ISFP) am matched best with ENFJ. DISASTER!

I think ISTPs are best with ISFPs and ISFJs. Just a thought. Both types will probably let them be themselves and give them the space they need.

When I was 17 I had an enormous crush that lasted two years (well, forever, really) on this ISTP 19 year old. OH GOD. How did he not realize? We both never spoke of it. I guess he was unaware. OR HE DIDN'T LIKE ME?! OH NO!!! THE HORRORS...
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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Mar 20, 2009
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7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
ISTPs are really attractive to me on the surface (yet another one has caught my eye recently), but then I get to know more about them & they seem like robots to me.

I've tried dating some and the whole relationship being on their terms and extreme need for independence/alone time seems so selfish and detached. I can't imagine putting a hobby over other human beings either. Thinking about ISTPs in those terms makes me feel sad, since again, I tend to like the idea of them when I meet them.

It's funny, because I think they can be drawn to me since I also need a lot of alone time to daydream and whatnot, but then they cannot understand how I seemingly do "nothing" with that time. And while on the surface we may have similar interests, the reasons seem to be opposite. I also don't like what feels like a "game" to me in a relationship, and so the whole "don't call me, I'll call you" vibe they give is a big turn-off. I need someone who is more emotionally available and sensitive to my needs.

I also notice ISTPs seem to value friendships more than romantic relationships.... I suppose friendships are easier for robots :devil:
 

janey_girl

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Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
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INtJ
the whole relationship being on their terms and extreme need for independence/alone time seems so selfish and detached.
I think this I am having the hardest time dealing with - I realised yesterday that our whole relationship has been on "his" terms... I fold when he says "I want to see you" but it doesn't feel reciprocated at all... We spend time with his friends, in his space, doing his things - I mentioned this a while back, that I'm in his world, but he's not in mine - sometimes I think that he thinks I don't have anything outside of him - and he sort of said this as well...

I can't imagine putting a hobby over other human beings either.
It is strange - to me people are what I'm about, I lack any real materialism or "nostalgia" for places or things or hobbies - these things make up his world utterly.

I also don't like what feels like a "game" to me in a relationship, and so the whole "don't call me, I'll call you" vibe they give is a big turn-off.
Hmmm - hate this with a passion - especially when I try my darndest to "not" contact him and he then decides he'll get in touch... But if I invade his space (even when it hasn't been clear this was an issue) he gets really upset...

I need someone who is more emotionally available and sensitive to my needs.
Even though you said they are robots - I do think there is something underneath - life, just not as we know it. It totally intrigues me...

I also notice ISTPs seem to value friendships more than romantic relationships.... I suppose friendships are easier for robots :devil:
Totally spot on - the relationship he has with his best friend is deeper than the one he and I will ever have - I think I've resigned myself to this (well in the most part anyway)...

But the exhileration of the ride with an ISTP, living like that, being really in the here and now - THAT cannot be topped... In another thread someone equated being with an ISTP to being like being fed sweets and candyfloss the whole time - OK for a while and real fun, but after a while you realise you cannot survive on it and need "real" substance... Unfortunately even though I love my ISTP to bits - I think, sorry, I know that down the road I will get a hankering for something with more substance to fulfill my emotional needs - that makes me so sad, so I try not to think about it and just enjoy the here and now as he does....
 

Pancreas

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Nov 8, 2008
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We spend time with his friends, in his space, doing his things - I mentioned this a while back, that I'm in his world, but he's not in mine - sometimes I think that he thinks I don't have anything outside of him - and he sort of said this as well...

But if I invade his space (even when it hasn't been clear this was an issue) he gets really upset...

He sounds kind of immature...

Well, very immature actually.
 

janey_girl

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Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
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INtJ
He sounds kind of immature...

Well, very immature actually.

I hear ya! I hear ya loud and clear.... This weekend though I am bringing him into MY world - I am sick of hearing how he is "bored" and by Sunday afternoon he is picking holes in stuff (verbally) just for something to do... I am painting a very bad picture of him aren't I? Thing is for every thing about him that winds me up, there is another I adore....

Any suggestions on how I can help him mature?
 

Pancreas

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Nov 8, 2008
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I hear ya! I hear ya loud and clear.... This weekend though I am bringing him into MY world - I am sick of hearing how he is "bored" and by Sunday afternoon he is picking holes in stuff (verbally) just for something to do... I am painting a very bad picture of him aren't I? Thing is for every thing about him that winds me up, there is another I adore....

Any suggestions on how I can help him mature?

Uhh, not really. :D

I know for me, personally, I get upset when I’m being treated unfairly. When I make an effort and someone else doesn’t. If you can get him to see your side of it, how you’re making an effort, something might click. Explain it and if that fails, physically do to him what he does to you. He’s probably not going to want to hear it. He’ll probably get defensive and try to turn things around on you. At least, that’s what I used to do when I was younger. But don’t back down. Don’t let him get fired up, don’t get emotional about it. It’s not fair, but if he’s going to learn, he needs to learn his way, and that’s not through emotion.

Of course, I don’t know how helpful or useful that is. Or whether you've already tried.
 

janey_girl

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Feb 18, 2009
Messages
74
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INtJ
If you can get him to see your side of it, how you’re making an effort, something might click. Explain it and if that fails, physically do to him what he does to you. He’s probably not going to want to hear it. He’ll probably get defensive and try to turn things around on you. At least, that’s what I used to do when I was younger. But don’t back down. Don’t let him get fired up, don’t get emotional about it. It’s not fair, but if he’s going to learn, he needs to learn his way, and that’s not through emotion.
You are right - on the few occasions when I have wanted to get my point across I have used this technique and it works pretty well (it eliminates the "emotion" and gives him something he can appreciate). Not using emotion when I have to spell it out to him is hard as it's what I use a lot... I have let him have his way a lot and this should allow me enough leverage to put my point across... He does need to learn his own way, I have seen what happens when he is "forced" and it isn't good...

Of course, I don’t know how helpful or useful that is. Or whether you've already tried.
Any advice is greatfully received, thanks for replying!
 

Pancreas

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You are right - on the few occasions when I have wanted to get my point across I have used this technique and it works pretty well (it eliminates the "emotion" and gives him something he can appreciate). Not using emotion when I have to spell it out to him is hard as it's what I use a lot... I have let him have his way a lot and this should allow me enough leverage to put my point across... He does need to learn his own way, I have seen what happens when he is "forced" and it isn't good...

No. Forcing baaaaad. Very bad.

It’s sort of unfair in a way, because you will have to restrain your emotion, but it won’t really happen the other way. At least not in that exact situation.

If someone can show me I’m being inconsiderate I do try to improve. I may not always admit it, or verbally confirm this is what I’m doing :)blush:) but I will take actions to try and fix things.

It sounds like what you're doing is working. Best of luck.
 

phoenity

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That can't be right. The same theory says I (ISFP) am matched best with ENFJ. DISASTER!

I think ISTPs are best with ISFPs and ISFJs. Just a thought. Both types will probably let them be themselves and give them the space they need.

When I was 17 I had an enormous crush that lasted two years (well, forever, really) on this ISTP 19 year old. OH GOD. How did he not realize? We both never spoke of it. I guess he was unaware. OR HE DIDN'T LIKE ME?! OH NO!!! THE HORRORS...

I'd have to agree Malia.

Being paired with someone completely opposite of me (ENFX) like Socionics and others seem to suggest, would undoubtedly be quite trying for both people. It would have to be unending infatuation for us to be able to work through and understand our differences, and to me that just seems like winning the lottery. I've never been one to stay in relationships, friends or intimate, that require a lot of work, but then again I never know because that one in a million just might be worth it.

An ISFP or ISFJ sounds like it would just work naturally because we'd "get" each other. I like the ISFP/Js here :)
 

janey_girl

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Feb 18, 2009
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No. Forcing baaaaad. Very bad.
Which is why his mum waited 8 years for him to hang a door - he kind of pointed out as he was hanging it....

It’s sort of unfair in a way, because you will have to restrain your emotion, but it won’t really happen the other way. At least not in that exact situation.
At the moment my emotions are I think in check - I have his friend on side who knows him better to help with bringing him into my world (and his friend will do it as I've lined him up with a girl and he doesn't want to miss out!). I am making myself as unavailable as I can so that when he sees me I have the upper hand a little... It sounds like game playing, but to you ISTPs it seems that if I play it totally straight there isn't enough of a challenge and I'll end up being walked on...

If someone can show me I’m being inconsiderate I do try to improve. I may not always admit it, or verbally confirm this is what I’m doing :)blush:) but I will take actions to try and fix things.
He has done this (usually for the stuff that really hasn't bothered me though. For the really big stuff he can't quite see my issue - like trying to change our relationship into "non-exclusive" - but only for him, I need to remain faithful - he wasn't sure why I got upset on this :huh:)

It sounds like what you're doing is working. Best of luck.
It is a difficult one - what he lacks in emotional depth he certainly makes up for in the ambiguity stakes.... Keeps me guessing! Never a dull moment...

Thanks again for your reply
 
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