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[ISTJ] Understanding Male ISTJ Minds

hermeticdancer

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Realistically when it comes to human emotions, you cannot just say something once, and then expect another person to not want to talk about it again.

example: (ISTJ to ENFP: I told you I loved you three weeks ago, why do I have to say it every night, when we talk? Don't you believe me? )

"I love you" followed by several converstaions about "How was your day? The weather is nice today? how is school? work?
It's like what Jennifer was saying, you need to 'stoke the fires.' and repeate yourself every so often, it doesn't undermine you, it makes the other person feel loved.

I personally listen for patterns, if I'm expecting someone to say something then when I don't hear it, I sense something is wrong.

Personally it's common preference among most human beings in a relationship.
Its nice to be told you are loved, and appreciated several times a week, to keep the other person aware of how you feel about them. Its hard to just go by actions. To ENFPs, words are very powerful.
We like honesty more than anything.

I like it when ISTjs show affection through back rubs, or asking how Im feeling, what im thinking. I find them to be good listeners.
 

ArbiterDewey

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I'll get back to responding in a bit, I'm just bleh right now.

Oh, and sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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... "I love you" followed by several converstaions about "How was your day? The weather is nice today? how is school? work?
It's like what Jennifer was saying, you need to 'stoke the fires.' and repeate yourself every so often, it doesn't undermine you, it makes the other person feel loved.

I personally listen for patterns, if I'm expecting someone to say something then when I don't hear it, I sense something is wrong.

The "pattern" part rings true, I was having an awful time this week at work because I saw lots of potential patterns that suggested negative opinions of my performance despite overall having gotten explicit positive reviews in the past. It was bad enough that I was feeling very paranoid and fighting trying not to withdraw... but as soon as I got a few more data points to negate the bad intuitions I was experiencing, I was okay.

Data points do wonders to correct apprehension. Maybe NP is very susceptible. (Explanation: SP tends to just respond to the concrete data -- what actually is said, what actually is done. NP reads into the less specific impressions and potential underlying insinuations of things or their absence.)
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
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example: (ISTJ to ENFP: I told you I loved you three weeks ago, why do I have to say it every night, when we talk? Don't you believe me? )
Yeah, that's how I always phrase it. But I've noticed that, somewhat hypocritically...
hermeticdancer said:
Personally it's common preference among most human beings in a relationship.
...I kind of expect the other person in the relationship to do the same for me. So perhaps it's like you said, that everybody wants that affirmation, even if they don't feel the need to give it out themselves. I really try to level with them, though. It's slightly irritating (and to me kind of pointless), but if I know it'll make her feel better, I'll try. In the end, it'll be worth it, right? (This comes from my limited experience...don't take it too seriously.)
 

hermeticdancer

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Thanks for the responses. My concern is that every time we begin talking it always, inevitably ends up in a "what are you thinking?" or "what about me do you like the best?" or we'll trade, "I miss you" but her's has a "why" tacked on the end. It brings our conversation to a stand still and nothing else can get said for its duration. I literally fear having to sit through these now. I want to be with her, but this is unreasonable. Right?

Oh, and I guess it would help to say that we haven't been going out for long at all. A week at most. It's been shaky from the start.

*deep sigh*...

Another week of headache and I'm out.

Ha, you are funny.

Only a week and you are already starting to get frustrated. It's good that you are aware of this. Pay attention to those things, it may be that you two are not compatible mentally and no amount of work, will fix it. Cause what may happen is you will start to tune her out, and ignore her after a while, and she will get increasing insecure and needy, because she isn't hearing what she wants to hear. Sound familiar.

I would give it some time. If it becomes uncomfortable or unbearable for you despite trying to communicate, then you know it's not going to work.

The important question to ask is...How does the person make you feel about yourself? In an ideal situation you will like yourself more, with a person you are compatible with. You know the feeling?

Tell her what you are really about in a nice way, just be honest and be yourself.
 

hermeticdancer

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So perhaps it's like you said, that everybody wants that affirmation, even if they don't feel the need to give it out themselves. I really try to level with them, though. It's slightly irritating (and to me kind of pointless), but if I know it'll make her feel better, I'll try. In the end, it'll be worth it, right? (This comes from my limited experience...don't take it too seriously.)

If your goal is to have a healthy stable relationship, it's worth it to try and understand the other person. Showing them that you understand shows you care.


It seems like your having trouble seeing the point of it all.
 

batumi

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Jan 31, 2008
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infj
a few more thoughts.....

Think of him as both uncertain about himself and what he has to offer you,
and also somewhat passive.
Passive in that he believes that if things will work out, they will work out.
Remember ISTJs are above all, stoic, and also pretty pessimistic toward
the future.
They're kind of like silent martyrs.

What you can do is slowly and carefully take the reigns.
Use lots of attachment skills. Make eye contact and smile
and be happy to see him.
But don't be too needy or clingy.
Give him space but be a joyful harbor for him when he
has time off work.
And make use of his need to be needed.
Go ahead and suggest doing something with him - make the
first move. Perhaps you can do it in a way that suggests
he is being helpful. Such as saying you really want to see
a movie or eat somewhere.
He wants to be helpful, productive, reliable.
And at first, he will probably mostly talk about work.

But hang in there, give it time and wait and see what
you discover down the road.
Keep in touch.
 

PinkIceTD

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but her's has a "why" tacked on the end. .

I'm so sorry. My friend got extremely frustrated with me because I used to ask why ALL the time too. He used to say it was my favorite question.

I didn't realize it bothered him. He had to express to me how bothersome that question was...I hadn't realized I said it so much. You might have to endure one convo where you explain this to her, how it drains you. She will inevitably ask "why" it does, but if you tell her, and she cares and wants you, she will stop. Or at least try to.
 

PinkIceTD

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So I talked to my friend tonight, and he brought it up, but indirectly. He basically said that he thought about it and decided that he wants to be able to "do it right" so he said I'd like to wait. I want him so I guess I gotta wait too.
 

batumi

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So I talked to my friend tonight, and he brought it up, but indirectly. He basically said that he thought about it and decided that he wants to be able to "do it right" so he said I'd like to wait. I want him so I guess I gotta wait too.

It sounds like maybe you encounter him fairly often in some way?
 

2XtremeENFP

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example: (ISTJ to ENFP: I told you I loved you three weeks ago, why do I have to say it every night, when we talk? Don't you believe me

LOL!! Sooooo True. This is exact.

I personally listen for patterns, if I'm expecting someone to say something then when I don't hear it, I sense something is wrong.

I do the same thing. I immediately ask what's wrong and they're like Nothing.. and I pester and pester cause I'm certain something's wrong!

I like it when ISTjs show affection through back rubs, or asking how Im feeling, what im thinking. I find them to be good listeners.

They are awesome at listening.. but their verbal feedback during a 'venting session' isn't so great. I usually get a "I see... man, that sucks. I'm sorry". All i can think is "Come On! I need more than that! Get emotional Like I'm getting emotion right now! BACK ME UP!"
 

Metamorphosis

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So I talked to my friend tonight, and he brought it up, but indirectly. He basically said that he thought about it and decided that he wants to be able to "do it right" so he said I'd like to wait. I want him so I guess I gotta wait too.

I know that sucks. :(

Is he actually expecting you and him to just wait without talking to anyone else? That equals all the negative aspects of a relationship with none of the positive ones. Tell him to cowboy up.
 

2XtremeENFP

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Is he actually expecting you and him to just wait without talking to anyone else? That equals all the negative aspects of a relationship with none of the positive ones. Tell him to cowboy up.

From my experience, it is a bad idea to rush an ISTJ or use guilt to try and get your way. if you WITHOUT A DOUBT want to wait for him then don't let him know right now that you feel this is unfair.

If he sees that you waiting for him is hurting you in anyway. He will view that as "unfair" then he will choose to not have you wait. ISTJs aren't selfish.

Don't rush him
 

PinkIceTD

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It sounds like maybe you encounter him fairly often in some way?

Yeah, we talk almost everyday.:wubbie: I don't get to see him often, though. He is an excellent phone conversationalist though. I don't even like talking on phones much, I like face to face so I can read body languange...but I can talk to him for hours.
 

PinkIceTD

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From my experience, it is a bad idea to rush an ISTJ or use guilt to try and get your way. if you WITHOUT A DOUBT want to wait for him then don't let him know right now that you feel this is unfair.

If he sees that you waiting for him is hurting you in anyway. He will view that as "unfair" then he will choose to not have you wait. ISTJs aren't selfish.

Don't rush him

Yeah I learned that much the hard way. I don't want to wait but I will because I want him. He sounded very decided when he said that, so I don't EXPECT him to change his mind. But if he does...:D
 

ArbiterDewey

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Yeah, we talk almost everyday.:wubbie: I don't get to see him often, though. He is an excellent phone conversationalist though. I don't even like talking on phones much, I like face to face so I can read body languange...but I can talk to him for hours.

I'm kind of the opposite. I dislike the telephone, but I am a good conversationalist. :huh:

Yeah I learned that much the hard way. I don't want to wait but I will because I want him. He sounded very decided when he said that, so I don't EXPECT him to change his mind. But if he does...:angry:
lol
 

ArbiterDewey

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Alright, assuming I can still use this thread for my problem, I have typed my g/f: ENFJ with BPD. I talked with her quite a bit last night, she was interested enough in reading my type description to want to know her own. She revealed to me after that that she had Borderline Personality Disorder. Read up the BPD link to understand a bulk of my difficulty. I don't know if I can give that much of myself that much of the time. It begins to hurt and feel as though I'm changing just to allow her to feel good, while I'm left feeling like hammered dog shit. I don't know...but I feel bad thinking that.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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I am reminded of my ISTJ roommate and his decision-making, including those regarding romantic relationships.

I often ask ISTJ-roommate (with great enthusiasm), "What are you waiting for?!!" And he says (in a dry matter-of-fact tone), "I don't know. It's pending." "Hmm... you have a lot of pending matters, it seems," I say.

...

Sometimes I can convince ISTJ to take a deadline in less pressure-filled situations like switching the cable or continuing our Blockbuster subscription. Usually though, as others have pointed out, he stubbornly works on his own timetable. My theory is he primarily waits because he can only concentrate on one monumental task at a time (which a relationship certainly is).

Anyway, he took months to tell this girl he wanted to date her. And, it's not like he didn't have the opportunity or that he was afraid to be vulnerable. He just waited. And waited. And waited. For what seemed to be eternal and for no apparent reason. He would come home and sheepishly admit, "Rach, you're going to be disappointed in me... I didn't tell her."

The reason for waiting is mostly inexplicable, but it does seem to be a trend.

You know, after I posted the other day, I asked two ISTJ guys that work in my office if they'd ever told a girl that they would 'let time decide' on the relationship front, and both of them admitted to doing it repeatedly.

I asked them why, since they are both so task-oriented at everything else they would risk losing a woman that they liked by not telling her about it or by dragging out the 'courting' phase for so long. Their response? Because they can't control what the woman thinks. They both agreed wholeheartedly that their opinion doesn't matter in the situations that we're talking about here because they can't make someone else do something.

It is weird for me to think about pre-relationships in this way... almost as if they are standing still, holding their breath, waiting for some kind of inspiration to strike them when the 'time is right' to proceed. All the while they are watching the woman like a hawk, hoping she hangs around.

One of them said he had told his good friend that he would 'let time decide' with his current wife. I asked him if he was always 'waiting for the right time' how they eventually ended up together. He said "I sent her a pink teddy bear". Hehehe So apparently, he felt at some point that he could safely make his offer of connecting to her.

The whole idea seems preposterous to me. I've heard that INTJs want closure and decisions to be made, and maybe this is where the fallout happens, but I have discovered that I am much happier if I simply speak my mind and get it over with rather than holding it in. A kind of 'laying the cards on the table' kind of attitude that says 'Here is your chance, take it or leave it'. If they leave it, it hurts and it takes me a while to deal with the rejection, but I do feel better for at least having said something.

ISTJ's are weird. :shock: :D: :hug:
 

Recoleta

No me digas, che!
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Sadly, even as a female ISTJ I relate to this thread a lot. I always wait it out until I think it's the right time...and I've never been the first to lay my feelings on the line. Granted, perhaps this is not as "socially unacceptable" for females as it is for males.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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...and I've never been the first to lay my feelings on the line.

My ISTJ friend got ME to bear my heart and soul. That almost never happens :blush:

Originally Posted by PinkIceTD
So I talked to my friend tonight, and he brought it up, but indirectly. He basically said that he thought about it and decided that he wants to be able to "do it right" so he said I'd like to wait. I want him so I guess I gotta wait too.

Heres the part where I go 'huh?' I think its hilarious that it was another INTJ who said he needs to 'cowboy up'. Those were my thoughts exactly.

Who says you have to wait too? One of the things my co-workers said the other day was that they deeply believe in the mentality 'If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it was yours, if it doesn't, it was never yours to begin with.'

I would recommend finding a social group, activity or otherwise to occupy your time with. Step back for a while and tone down the frequency and duration of your conversations. In other words, appear to get a life.

No one says you have to walk away... just go find a shady tree near the path and watch him from a distance for a while.

:newwink:

Edit: You know, I say this with such confidence because its what I've decided to do with my ISTJ dilemma... but I'm terrified that I'll never hear from him again *sigh*
 
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