• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ISTJ] I need advices. Deal breaker circumstance.

Brujx

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I need advice. Deal breaker circumstance.

Hello everyone, i'm not a native english speaker, but i hope you all understand what im going to say. I have some questions (that are driving me insane of course), i will try to give you all the background about it. ENFP female in here, and him ISTJ. Internet frienship:

Background:

1. In the first year of conversation (we spoke or wrote, every single day for over 1 hour, usually was up to 3 and more on weekends). During that whole year he constanly told me we werent friends, but he assisted me in several things, we shared precious moments even with the distance between us, i.e watching movies together at the same time, or shared screen and talk about our families, etc, i even make him stay awake just to see the sunrise when he didnt want it, and even being so far away i always felt him.. next to me. I always consider him a friend even when he deny that each time. I started to feel something for him but didnt tell him about those feelings, just decided to cut the relationship (we are from different countries), i told him, since he didnt consider me a friend was no point in keep on going, he accepted my quit from the relationship.

2. Well, after 8 months of silence, with 0 contact to him, he suddenly was back in my life. He sent a message saying "can you forgive me?"... i replyed, "theres nothing you should be forgiven for". So we start again, like those 8 months never existed. Again, lots of hours, lots of debates. Problem was, i got the confirmation that my feelings were still there. After 6 months of his return, those feelings were making me insane, so, i just wrote him a message while he was offline, in that message i told him, that again i needed some "space" or "cut", because i had feelings for him, i never especified wich ones, he replyed something like "ok, i thought we passed this phase, but i guess we didnt, life is life, and i dont have another option than just wait for you". I was back after a month of "space", he still at that very moment didnt recognize that we were friends. Really. So here was him, with no feelings for me, and me totally in love. After a while we got into a fight, because i felt him distant, he said everything was fine, i pushed him until he finally said he was distant because he wasnt feeling "the connection anymore", since i was bitter, i told him... "i hope she makes you happy"... (he never mentioned another woman, i just knew), and then he said.. "dont worry, im getting bored of her already, i will say she wont pass 2 months". So, he blocked me, and everything was done.

3. Two years and a half later (the now moment), i couldnt yet, take him out of my mind, and out of nowhere i recieved a message in my cell phone (notice, he told me he changed his phone, he didnt have my number no more, this was during the first year of our friendship) the message said something as "hello, a lot of things changed in these two and a half years, and we really need to talk again". We chatted for an hour and i needed to go. The next day, he sent me a message, in which, he explains to me his "PLAN", he told me he was in a moment of his life ready to move on and make a family, but was something holding him on a physical level. He also told me, he met some women in these 2 and a half years, but with none of the them had not even 10% of the connection or whatever he had with me.

His Plan:

He told me, i was his best female friend ever and that he loved me in that sense. And that all that he was about to tell me after, for me would sound really really bad, but fits perfectly in his logic. He said, i woke up a couple of days ago with the idea of meeting you, let that idea developed in my mind and then another idea came to my mind, and saw that two pieces match perfect. I want you to come (to his country), no matter what, because that is the main goal, second goal is that you help me to become a man (sexually speaking), he said, you know i want to do this right, with someone i deeply care about, you always thought i was saving it for someone special but its more like i didnt knew how to give it away, i want to experience love with a person that is open minded and can even laugh in a situation like that, that had the experience in that particular field, and also a person that have all my trust, and you are all of that, we know each other really well, we had that deep bond, so you are the perfect match. I know if we do this, i probably fall in love with you, (he wants me to stay with him for 2 weeks or something) but eventually i will have to fight that feeling and break free, but that new perspective of experiencing love will make my life richier, i know this all sound crazy and selfish, but its only because is planned. Please don't you dare to think i'm somehow paying you, to get what i want, dont you even dare!, because you know i respect you, keep your mind open please. Even if you said "no" to this idea, the idea of the travel to meet me still goes, cause its relevant, i will wait for your answer, take your time, im not in a hurry.

Question: was he lying the whole time before when he didnt call me friend? or? (i asked him this, and he said, he doesnt "remember", he say "i said we werent?")

Question: "im not saving it for someone special and i want you to be the one cause i deeply care about you"... isnt it someone that one deeply care about ergo someone special?

Question: should i take him seriously? by the book? when he say "i probably fall in love with you, but eventually i will have to fight that feeling and break free"

Question: Would you dare to ask something like that to a person you consider a friend?


My reply: (basically i told him NO, and also told him i love him) (so you can skip this part if you want)

Of course, me being an enfp, or futhermore being a human being, a person, i felt totally insulted. TOTALLY. So, i didnt control my first reaction, and sent him a voice message, telling him all my feelings. I told him, that it sounded selfish, cause primarly it was. I told him, he was using our friendship and the feelings to get what he wanted, that i was surprised that now suddenly i was his best female friend that he deeply care about, that "this plan" was totally wrong, lacking of ethics, morals, etc, that he should never do again that to a person, he cant just get what he wants no matter what, that he wanted to used me and discarted me as garbage, and even more allow himself to say i shouldnt "dare to think" that he has bad intentions, that he really disappointed me, that i never expected such a horrible thing from him, that he indeed changed but for the bad, that i was surprised that he is smart enough for some things and so dumb for others, that he couldnt even replaced me in 2 years for another woman, that i could actually make the "favour" for him, of making him a man, but that i could never teach him how to love because he needs a heart for that, not a brain, that he will never experience anything for real if he doesnt allow himself to do something spontaneous for once in his life, that he doesnt have the "b... " to live without a plan, and that is half living, etc etc etc, and finished my voice message saying (while crying).. you know what? i cant do the trip and i cant help you with the other thing, for a simple reason.. i love you, i have always loved you, and you know this, i dont even have to said it, i wish things would be different, so i can actually have fun with this idea of yours, but my feelings are in the middle and are strong, and i cant allow myself to do this, because i know i will come back home eartbroken, im sorry, i wish you all the blessings that the universe can bring to your life multiplied by infinite. Now, if you really care about me, as you said you do, not even much, just a little bit, please dont come back to my life never again, because each time you do it, its more difficult for me, please! erase me from your mind, take care, bye.

His answer:

He said, that was somehow prepared for most of the message, except from the part in wich i was crying and telling him i love him, he said, i was "unprepared for that", he said "no words are right for a moment like this, you know im not a emotional person unfortunatly, but if i was i would probably be crying for the rest of the day, i cant say im happy because in my mind i lose a friend, cant say im sad either because i felt something in my heart for the first time and its beautiful, i cant live my life without a plan, im just too insecure for that, it doesnt matter if it is a good plan or bad, for me will always feel like a right plan, i wish you all the best, and also i wish you, that you follow your own advice and deleted me from your mind, maybe just a glance, if you see the sun in your face or a weird look that a cat is given you.. think "how is he going, i hope he is well and happy" and i will do the same for you, i promise". Oh! also he said, the "old him" in a situation like this will argue and debate why im "wrong".. but his "new him" understood everything i said.

Question: deleting someone of your mind, is deleting them. Then, why he said maybe a glance.. is he trying to manipulate me into remember him? (i know this question is for interpretation, but i want to know all possible perspectives)


So, after like 2 days, i wasn't block.. which i thought was weird, because i mean i asked him to deleted me from his mind, so i thought he would blocked my phone number or something.. but no. And since im stupid, i wrote him, told him i just needed to understand this to close the circle, just needed to understand why he was doing this to me, why, asked him if he actually planned this since the very beginning, asked him, lots of thing, i was full of "why". He said he was always honest, he didnt plan this from the very beggining and was exactly as he told me prior, that just one idea came after the other, that i shouldnt worry, that the "man" deal he
will figure out, but he really thought was a good idea and blah blah blah.

Question: why he didnt block me? Do you people expect the other part to make the cut in a situation like this?-- Because he told me "i will do as you ask me to, and erase you". then ... Why he didnt?

Important details in my opinion

His family expects him to marry a particular type of woman and i dont fill any of the requiriments that they ask for, except from being human and woman, he never told his parents about me or our relationship, because according to him, they are very conservative and they will push him to drop me, so they dont know of my existence. Also, when we talked about his "second part of the plan" i make him notice that he doesnt have any physical attraction towards me, and he said, well i give that importance but neither i felt that "attraction" to other woman. He claims, he doesnt like man in that way neither (he strongly denied that in several times), and when i brought the subject of "asexuality" he completely ignored it, and even change the subject.

The NOW

Im still in touch with him, even changed my mind about the travel part, so we argued about the travel part for weeks, and since he is a control freak, and we were getting nowhere in negotiation, i told him, we should take some space and later i will put in contact with him, he accepted. In those 2 weeks almost without talking to him, i cried and thought a lot, also i went to do my passport (just to confirm to my mind, that the decision was taken). Since he never called me "friend" until now days, and he strongly denied that word with a lot of arguments for many years, to now suddenly admit it, then, that tells me that maybe his mind is more confussing than mine.

Question: can that be the case? that he is confused regarding a couple of things? that he doesnt have in his mind everything solved?

So, i contacted him, i told him i got the passport. We were planning things, and once again, he bringed the "second part of the plan" into the table, i was upset, he told me it wasnt a condition, but he was still thinking about it, cause he wanted to gain some "experience" out of all of this, and he is pretty confident that is going to happen.I told him i can't guarantee NOTHING on that matter, and that apparently for him, that was the most important thing, he said "is not the most important but i still didn't get to a conclusion about it"


I really always trusted him, cause he was always honest, but i cant help to think, in this particular situation that he really doesnt care about me, not as a person, not as friend, even when he says he does, and the thing that he put that subject again in the table is telling me, that actually that is his main goal, so i would be just a tool in this machiavellian plan.

Question: can he be a total liar, faking everything, and really in his mind im a tool? How far would you guys go for achieve a plan? what are the signs that you guys show when you are lying? how can i pick a lie in an istj?



Is really hard for me to read him, or maybe im readed him totally well, but i just cant believe this whole thing.

Any advice, suggestion, view, perspective, analysis, or even answer to the questions i made, will be very much appreciated.

Im sorry for this long message and for all the grammar, and typo mistakes, and once again, thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
 
Last edited:

Brujx

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
[MENTION=31909]agentwashington[/MENTION] thank you for reading all, and your reply... and also thats the problem, i cant figure this out, i have in my mind like at least 5 different scenarios, i cant read this guy :shrug: idk whats going on in his mind :unsure:
 

Agent Washington

Softserve Ice Cream
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
2,053
[MENTION=31909]agentwashington[/MENTION] thank you for reading all, and your reply... and also thats the problem, i cant figure this out, i have in my mind like at least 5 different scenarios, i cant read this guy :shrug: idk whats going on in his mind :unsure:

I would advise you to not bother trying to read his mind, to be honest. There's no real way of knowing what's going on in his mind, whether he's sincere, or what kind of games he's playing. In the BEST case scenario, he's sincere and weird as fuck to be completely unacceptable in all manners of romance and dealing with him will end up hurting you. In the worst case scenario, he's taking advantage of your feelings and trying to lay groundwork so that he can either exploit your company and/or get rid of his virginity, and it will end up hurting you.
 

Tellenbach

in dreamland
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
6,088
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Question: was he lying the whole time before when he didnt call me friend? or? (i asked him this, and he said, he doesnt "remember", he say "i said we werent?")

He definitely likes you but we have our own definitions of friendship and your relationship probably didn't meet one of his requirements.

Question: "im not saving it for someone special and i want you to be the one cause i deeply care about you"... isnt it someone that one deeply care about ergo someone special?

Same as the first question. In his mind, there is a difference.

Question: should i take him seriously? by the book? when he say "i probably fall in love with you, but eventually i will have to fight that feeling and break free"

It's a very noncommittal response on his part. The entire relationship seems noncommittal. Basically, I think he likes you but probably doesn't want to commit; he's probably hiding something. My advice would be to end this relationship. He's giving you so many hints to run away.

Question: Would you dare to ask something like that to a person you consider a friend?

No. It's kind of creepy.

Question: deleting someone of your mind, is deleting them. Then, why he said maybe a glance.. is he trying to manipulate me into remember him? (i know this question is for interpretation, but i want to know all possible perspectives)

I think he's conflicted; he likes you but doesn't want a committed relationship and he doesn't want the current situation to change.

Question: why he didnt block me? Do you people expect the other part to make the cut in a situation like this?-- Because he told me "i will do as you ask me to, and erase you". then ... Why he didnt?

Same answer.

Question: can that be the case? that he is confused regarding a couple of things? that he doesnt have in his mind everything solved?

He's not confused; he's conflicted. He probably knows what he's doing is wrong but (as I stated earlier), he doesn't want the current situation to end.

Question: can he be a total liar, faking everything, and really in his mind im a tool? How far would you guys go for achieve a plan? what are the signs that you guys show when you are lying? how can i pick a lie in an istj?

Please, just end this. Nothing good will come of this relationship. Trust your intuition.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I would advise you to not bother trying to read his mind, to be honest. There's no real way of knowing what's going on in his mind, whether he's sincere, or what kind of games he's playing. In the BEST case scenario, he's sincere and weird as fuck to be completely unacceptable in all manners of romance and dealing with him will end up hurting you. In the worst case scenario, he's taking advantage of your feelings and trying to lay groundwork so that he can either exploit your company and/or get rid of his virginity, and it will end up hurting you.

Yeah I agree. He seems like really bad relationship material. Don't see any long term upside here [MENTION=35557]Brujx[/MENTION]. I would drop him and move on.

How old is he by the way?
 

Brujx

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thank you all for your perspectives, i really appreciate the time, paradoxically 2 female istj advised me also regarding this issue, and they told me.. i should try to meet the guy HAHAHAHA, i know. :huh:
[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] He is 28 y.o, doesn't have experiences with girls, only in "friendships", but he never "fall in love" with somebody, the first moves he did in that romantic area, were recently in those 2 and half years when he cutted the bond with me, and apparently didnt go well.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
Crowd him out of your life.

I think it's convenient for him to have a friend, and someone he feels comfortable losing his virginity to, but on a fundamental level you won't fit into his world, so he's not interested in more.

At the very least, it sounds like there are issues with intimacy and communication that would make it difficult to conduct a healthy relationship. He has issues you can't help him with. He needs to work them out by himself. If he hasn't started by 28, and he's istj (adverse to change of routine or delving into deep emotional stuff), it's not likely to suddenly happen.

I think you are in love with an idealized version of him. The only reason there might be to meet is so that things in person would crash and burn and you can easily replace him with other worthwhile people and pursuits without wondering what you missed. My experience with TJs is that there aren't a bunch of lines to read between. He's been clear that he is not romantically interested in you.

My sense though is that you are hoping for different advice and for a different ending, so you will likely go ahead with the relationship as he envisions it, hoping that he will fall in love along the way and be unsuccessful in fighting his feelings.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
At the very least, it sounds like there are issues with intimacy and communication that would make it difficult to conduct a healthy relationship.

I completely agree with this.

He is 28 y.o, doesn't have experiences with girls, only in "friendships", but he never "fall in love" with somebody, the first moves he did in that romantic area, were recently in those 2 and half years when he cutted the bond with me, and apparently didnt go well.

I can see why they didn't go well. If he were 18 or 20 or something, you could chalk some of it up to immaturity but a 28 he should have much more of a clue.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I agree with everything everyone above said. I can totally empathize with having difficulty figuring out what's going on in the mind of someone I'm interested in, and overlooking things that shouldn't be overlooked so easily. You are not stupid. Remember that. You're human and have strong feelings and that's lovely. But do protect yourself. Don't let this guy take advantage of your loveliness. It very much sounds like that could be his intention. Maybe it's not. But even if it isn't, he likely may not ever be able to give you the kind of love you want and need to feel loved, valued, and seen. You deserve that kind of love.

If you do travel to see him, please don't just stay with him. Please get a hotel room. He's already pressuring you about "the second part of the plan" online. Imagine how that's going to be in person? And though it isn't easy to think about, think about his responses about attraction. Imagine you agree to be intimate with him and he has no clue how to be intimate with you and the whole thing is an awful hurtful mess, leaving you feeling incredibly hurt, unloved, unwanted, unattractive (not because you actually are those things, but because he is so...so...not emotionally intelligent). Save yourself that hurt. He isn't going to magically change (though believe me, I know how tempting that idea is). He is not being a good friend to you. He isn't psychologically or socially healthy.
 

Brujx

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w1
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
[MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] thank you for your beautiful, sweet, and kind words <3

This situation just got me totally unprepared, i wasn't expecting him to come back again, i swear, he was a good friend prior to this circumstance, he was, even when he denied the word "friend", his action, and words, were very accurate and helped me a lot, he learned from me, from our debates, i was the sensitive one he was the rational one, and put him into thinking more than once, make him doubt about his own believes, when you speak with a person for so much time, you create a bond, even being so ethereal as a virtual one, we never talked in a romantic way, we always debated ideas, beliefs, and things alike. This situation, well, really.. i never expected this from him, thats why im so disapointed, that i was searching for a logical reason or explanation for this. He can be accuse of being... terrible, he can be accuse of many things actually, but he cant be accuse of no being honest, at least at first glance... at first glance when he presented the idea, he was honest, he could have trick me .. and actually "avoid" telling me what was on his mind... yet, he didn't. I think he is being selfish, but also i think he is desperate. A week ago or so, we had this huge fight, i was "quitting" he got so upset, he was saying things as "why dont you give me the opportunity to prove you who am i, that all those things you belive of me arent such, that we are in the same side of the ocean, maybe even in the same page, you will have to rewrite everything you belive about me... etc etc etc" i was totally mad, i told him his perspectives regarding what a friendship is are totally "f... up".. and he say i know they are, and im sorry for making you mad :((((. Now, we are still talking, we didn't mention anything regarding the travel, after the last time that i got upset to him for bringing again "the second part to the table"... we just, didn't talk about it anymore, we are just randomly speaking about things, like we used to. I hope that at some point he just quit the whole idea, and understand, that this whole thing was just wrong.I want to believe that in his heart, there's still a flame of goodness. It doesn't matter if i never see him in person, if i know that his soul remained pure at some point.

maybe is the curse of the feelers, to have hope, faith, or trust, that even the ones that hurt us the most have at least some goodness in their hearts.. at the very end.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Brujx, I'm glad if my words could help you. And I agree that his honesty is good and admirable. I think you are right in that he's desperate. Hopefully he will be able to find some healthier way out of his current state of mind and be able to demonstrate that to you after he's done it, if you still want to be in contact with him. He obviously cares about you and cared about you. No one would spend that much time with someone (whether it was online or in person) if there were no feelings there. But it seems he doesn't know how to show it in a healthy way, and his current desperation is making him act out in ways which could hurt you. Best wishes whatever you do. Hugs. :hug:
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It's all very complicated, but the vibe I am getting from this is that he should probably focus on leveling himself out first, before going into a relationship.
 
Top