[SJ] SJand NJ issues

[Ene]

I work with and am totally surrounded by SJs much of the time. They appreciate my talent, to a degree, in that they are astonished at the particular skill set I possess, but when they ask me to do a project, they expect it to be a microwave dinner, fully cooked in a brief amount of time. When I compose a song they expect it to be performance ready right out the door. They have little time to listen to and work with me on delving out parts, etc. When I paint a mural they want an entire elementary school done in just days. Writing books? They have no idea how long it takes.

My question, how do I do a great job while they snark at me to hurry up? None of the ones I work with can do what I can do, yet they bark orders at me like I'm expendable. When I try to explain the logistics of why it isn't possible for me to do it their way, they often have no time to listen and some of them walk away while I'm in mid-sentence, which I hate. It's excessively rude. (Mostly ESFJs and ESTJs do this.)

So, I'd really like to hear from SJs how do I make this better? I mean it's not a problem for them, except for the fact that if I worked around the clock, I'd still never finish fast enough for them. Advice, por favor.

So, bottom line....I need time for the creative process and the physical production of projects. They want the projects to be like "whatever else they saw and liked." They want it perfect and they want it yesterday.

 

[Tellenbach]

They have no idea how long it takes.

This is the crux of the problem. Perhaps, you should send each SJ a list of rough guestimates of how long each project takes and ask them to adjust their expectations accordingly.

 

[Coriolis]

This is a case where you just have to put your foot down. Don't bother pandering to their impatience with detailed explanations - you don't have time. When they ask you for something, give them a realistic estimate of how long it will take, and that's it. If they don't like it, they can go to someone else. If they agree and then start to pester, don't tolerate it.

This is just an extension of saying "no" when you need to, and setting boundaries.

FWIW, I have seldom had this trouble with SJs, my present manager being an unfortunate exception.

 

[Ene]

Thanks, [MENTION=20113]Tellenbach[/MENTION] but it doesn't work that way. I never know exactly how long one section will take me. It depends on a lot of variables that are beyond my control.

So, [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]I just told them that it'll be done when it's done. I told them that if they want it look good, then it might take awhile. They didn't like it, but that's the answer I gave them. I hope it gets better with your present manager.

 

[Jaguar]

Appeal to a job well done that will benefit the entire system. To do so may take time that goes beyond any schedule. Say, "You're either interested in an excellent result or you're not. What's it going to be?" Then wait. He who speaks first, loses. Finish with, " If there's nothing else, I have my work to get back to." Extend your hand and shake theirs firmly. It will let them know you mean business, and the pressure in your handshake speaks volumes - whether you're a man or a woman. Don't allow your hand to be a wet noodle. Ever.

You are now in the driver's seat.

Good luck.

 

[Ene]

Thanks, [MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION]

Just wondering, are you an SJ?

 

[Jaguar]

Thanks, [MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION]

Just wondering, are you an SJ?

Christ, no. I'm just used to dealing with SJs in business.

 

[Ene]

Christ, no. I'm just used to dealing with SJs in business.

LOL! I totally understand. Thanks. And thanks for the advice.

 

[EJCC]

I work with and am totally surrounded by SJs much of the time. They appreciate my talent, to a degree, in that they are astonished at the particular skill set I possess, but when they ask me to do a project, they expect it to be a microwave dinner, fully cooked in a brief amount of time. When I compose a song they expect it to be performance ready right out the door. They have little time to listen to and work with me on delving out parts, etc. When I paint a mural they want an entire elementary school done in just days. Writing books? They have no idea how long it takes.

...So, I'd really like to hear from SJs how do I make this better? I mean it's not a problem for them, except for the fact that if I worked around the clock, I'd still never finish fast enough for them. Advice, por favor.

So, bottom line....I need time for the creative process and the physical production of projects. They want the projects to be like "whatever else they saw and liked." They want it perfect and they want it yesterday.

As an SJ and as someone who works in an ESTx-style office environment (GET IT DONE NOW!!), I suggest that you lay down ground rules IMMEDIATELY. They know you're the expert, so when they tell you their expectations, refute them before they get a chance to settle in. If they question you, appeal to Si ("From my experience as the expert here, it should usually take approximately X amount of time because of Y factors").

My question, how do I do a great job while they snark at me to hurry up? None of the ones I work with can do what I can do, yet they bark orders at me like I'm expendable. When I try to explain the logistics of why it isn't possible for me to do it their way, they often have no time to listen and some of them walk away while I'm in mid-sentence, which I hate. It's excessively rude. (Mostly ESFJs and ESTJs do this.)

The more you lay down the rules, the less likely they will be to do this. Their rudeness is out of ignorance and their own Si experience. Their Si database will shift, the more evidence you give that their expectations are baseless.

As for walking away mid-sentence -- firstly, that's horrendously rude and I am angry on your behalf. Secondly, I think if I were you, I'd yell at them to wait as soon as they start to walk away. In an office full of pushy people, a lot of times you need to be equally pushy in order to get their attention. My boss is an ESTP so I have some experience with this.

Edit:

Appeal to a job well done that will benefit the entire system. To do so may take time that goes beyond any schedule. Say, "You're either interested in an excellent result or you're not. What's it going to be?" Then wait. He who speaks first, loses. Finish with, " If there's nothing else, I have my work to get back to." Extend your hand and shake theirs firmly. It will let them know you mean business, and the pressure in your handshake speaks volumes - whether you're a man or a woman. Don't allow your hand to be a wet noodle. Ever.

You are now in the driver's seat.

Good luck.

Yes definitely. This is exactly the kind of push-back I was referring to.

 

[INTP]

If people are being difficult about something that they want you to do, you need to ask them if they want you to do it or not(saying the not besides just asking if they want it to be done adds weight to it), and when they reply yes, you just tell them what(time, resources, whatever) you need in order to do it. If they are being difficult again, just ask them again if they want it to be done or not. Repeat when ever necessary. If they reply wit no, be glad you dont need to do it with people annoying you.

 

[Seymour]

Also, let me put in a plug for getting good at pessimistic (realistic) estimation. It really pays to give people the "bad" news upfront on how long something will take. Finishing a bit early is usually far preferable to taking much longer. One can't always estimate accurately (that's why it's an "estimate"), but it's an important skill to have.

People may not be thrilled to know they have to wait a while for a good result, but if you build up a track record of providing a good result on schedule, that's something that others can respect and appreciate over time.

Not having SOME number (even a somewhat squishy one) to use for planning will drive some people insane.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm pretty sure both of my supervisors are SJs. One might possibly be some variety of SP.

If I'm unsure how long something is going to take, I find that the best answer to keep them from bugging me every 5 minutes is to "guesstimate" a much longer completion time than it would probably take just to keep them from nipping at my heels. Of course then there is always the possibility they'll complain that it shouldn't take so long, but it makes me look better when I finish the task much earlier than promised.

 

[Showbread]

Thanks, [MENTION=20113]Tellenbach[/MENTION] but it doesn't work that way. I never know exactly how long one section will take me. It depends on a lot of variables that are beyond my control.

I can just feel their frustration with this, I know it would drive me bananas (which is why I don't do jobs like yours). But, sometimes that's just the case I suppose. I second everything EJCC said, that might help smooth it over a little. Does your work ever have deadlines? Or are they just impatient?

Regardless of their frustration walking away mid-sentence is totally unacceptable. Definitely stand up for yourself and make sure they know that is not okay and that you deserve to be treated with respect.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] Thank you both.

Our local school system received an enormous grant to implement a program known as Leader in Me. As a part of this program, a portion of the grant money goes to school environment and part of the stipulations are that they hire a professional artist to paint beautiful murals throughout out the building. I'm thrilled to be the chosen artist. However, the building is large and the surface I'm painting on is rough in that it is concrete block. I am faster than most artists when it comes right down to it. I'm very efficient for the results I produce.

I think my only real deadline is before school's out, so it just boils down to the fact that they are impatient. They want to be able to "brag" about how quickly our school jumped onboard and complied or something like that. I was supposed to have gotten a much earlier start, but due to red tape at the top where the superintendent felt the need to specify what kind of paint I should use [I had to wait on him to not only issue purchase orders but to actually send my principal to buy the paint] and maintenance schedules which consists of shutting the entire building down for a week, I was off to a late start from the get-go. Plus, I have the same work load as everyone else So, I'm painting on weekends, at nights, on holiday breaks and whenever I have a couple of hours to spare. Still, I think they were just disappointed that I didn't have the whole thing done by September and here it January and I'm still not finished.

 

[Showbread]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] Thank you both.

Our local school system received an enormous grant to implement a program known as Leader in Me. As a part of this program, a portion of the grant money goes to school environment and part of the stipulations are that they hire a professional artist to paint beautiful murals throughout out the building. I'm thrilled to be the chosen artist. However, the building is large and the surface I'm painting on is rough in that it is concrete block. I am faster than most artists when it comes right down to it. I'm very efficient for the results I produce.

I think my only real deadline is before school's out, so it just boils down to the fact that they are impatient. They want to be able to "brag" about how quickly our school jumped onboard and complied or something like that. I was supposed to have gotten a much earlier start, but due to red tape at the top where the superintendent felt the need to specify what kind of paint I should use [I had to wait on him to not only issue purchase orders but to actually send my principal to buy the paint] and maintenance schedules which consists of shutting the entire building down for a week, I was off to a late start from the get-go. Plus, I have the same work load as everyone else So, I'm painting on weekends, at nights, on holiday breaks and whenever I have a couple of hours to spare. Still, I think they were just disappointed that I didn't have the whole thing done by September and here it January and I'm still not finished.

Ah, got it. Yeah, something like that is hard to accurately gage especially if you going to the best work possible, which it sounds like you are.

Keep us posted, and maybe add some pictures of your art when it's all done??

 

[Ene]

I will [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] thanks! I have some pics already of the portions I have done. I'll post them soon as I get a chance

 

[Ene]

Here are some photos of three sections that are nearly finished so far. They're fuzzy because they were taken with an ipad. I have two more sections that about half done and two that I haven't started on yet.