[ISFJ] ISFJ Personality Traits - What does an unhealthy ISFJ look like?

[seeker22]

It sounds like you were always enthusiastic about jumping on random opportunities and not seeing them in terms of how much work they meant, because you were so "into it" that it didn't matter to you... and she might well have been afraid that she would be the one left with the worry long after you'd had your quickly forgotten initial fun. That part might be an actual issue for you.

I will own that 100%!! It's that ENFP zest for life - drove her nuts even though she LOVED it in the beginning...

May I also say that I am an ENFP who shows up on time, manages money well, etc. A responsible version - so she can't have been worried in that department.

 

[wastrd]

they all look like ugly betty to me.

 

[illume]

We tried to reconcile and then I found out she was cheating. That was it for me. She ended up "downgrading" (lol) to someone who is totally unattractive and into drugs and alcohol. However, she continues to call, text, and email me that she loves me and can't get over her feelings for me. I just don't get it.

Hey now.... Don't forget that ISFJ propensity to latch onto losers and bums. They love to "fix" broken people....It substantiates their whole doormat "thing". Maybe you were just too damn normal. Hrrummmpfff.

 

[leejz]

i ever had an unhealthy ISFJ as a teacher before.

my school has this course survey thing, and we took it after one semester. next semester he walks in and starts whining about the negative comments he got for the survey, and how he never has gotten so low before, how he felt disappointed and betrayed by the class, how he thought he was a good teacher etc

he refused to teach at all for a few lessons afterward, and instead got students to teach, because we "thought we are too good for him". right.

thank goodness i don't see him around anymore.

 

[garbage]

Passive aggressive, stuck on the past, and stubbornly refusing to change their situation. Helps other people out of a desire to forget their own problems.

 

[INTPatricia]

isfj "less majic moments" lol...how well I know

• Subtle guilt trips through self-victimization
• Actively being a paragon of virtue, to use as leverage later ("If I'm perfect, then you have no excuse to be upset with me.")
• Generally passive-aggressive (occasionally downright aggressive if they feel justified or people they love are threatened)
• Self-pity/withdrawal/self-castigation
• Mentally able to block out things they don't want to address (denial and repression)
• Can keep record of wrongs easily
• Prone to wild speculation when things are forced outside the box (i.e., weak N abilities)

Those are the things I generally have experienced.

I have actual examples of these from a beloved isfj...

"subtle guilt trips"

(well, ANY kind of guilt trip has this effect upon an intp: :yim_rolling_on_the_::rolli:

"Please have some mercy on me...because if you only knew what I was going through ... you would understand...

(yikes)" ...hey...I never minimized what you were going through...I just asked you to stay in touch you goofball.:rolli:

"Don't be mad at me, person X is yelling at me, person Y is guilting me, person Z is dying; and I had to walk 3 miles each way just to get xyz done"

(well, Abe Lincoln had nuthin' on you...I'll write in your name on the next Presidential ballot) but for now, you are still on my Sh$%List...back to my point...you didn't send an email for 10 days, I don't care if you were in India..."

See, an intp sticks with the subject, relentlessly until it is resolved...regardless of the other person's discomfort...we will patiently await outside the restroom to pick it back up to finish...this doesn't work for the isfj...especially if they fear they were wrong. They want forgiveness, we want unconditional surrender. They assume we will punish them but we won't...we will simply shrug and say, "now you know why I was mad, don't let it happen again"...

"Can keep record of wrongs easily" ...

A good thing to ask the isfj is: "oh, yeah, and what else did X do?":steam: Let them answer: blah, blah, blah: "well, he has a good heart, but a,b,c and x,y,z...but it's okay" (then it get's dropped")

"prone to wild speculation"..."yeah...either that or I was kidnapped by al Qaeda...which is more likely" (which makes him laugh...showing him the odds of his guess being correct are minimal at best) (once the other side of their brain gets to hear their wacky idea...it gets dropped)

i am crazy about isfj's by the way!

 

[Giggly]

A good thing to ask the isfj is: "oh, yeah, and what else did X do?":steam: Let them answer: blah, blah, blah: "well, he has a good heart, but a,b,c and x,y,z...but it's okay" (then it get's dropped")

Clever.

 

[d@v3]

Aren't the evil ISFJ's equivalent to the ISTJ's? I always thought Recoleta was a sweet ISFJ but then I saw her evil ISTJ side.

 

[jixmixfix]

Are they particularly skilled at guilt trips? Underhanded manipulation?

What are their defenses and tactics of choice when they want attention, control, etc.?

thanks!

basically mike tyson

 

[Thalassa]

• Subtle guilt trips through self-victimization
• Actively being a paragon of virtue, to use as leverage later ("If I'm perfect, then you have no excuse to be upset with me.")
• Generally passive-aggressive (occasionally downright aggressive if they feel justified or people they love are threatened)
• Self-pity/withdrawal/self-castigation
• Mentally able to block out things they don't want to address (denial and repression)
• Can keep record of wrongs easily
• Prone to wild speculation when things are forced outside the box (i.e., weak N abilities)

Those are the things I generally have experienced.

This is a great list, but to it I would add "can be insanely unforgiving beyond reason over relatively minor slights."

 

[NewEra]

Actually, someone I know might be an unhealthy ISFJ - take a look at this...

Negative points:
- Holds grudges
- Can be moody
- Once said she hates people
- Not empathetic
- Can be sensitive
- Pretty stingy with money

Positive points:
- Loves to plan get-togethers with people she knows well
- Polite, shy
- There are others (good and bad points), but I don't feel like going through all of them.

I've got the I, S, and J down. But I don't know if she's a T or F. Does this sound like an unhealthy ISFJ?

 

[Lightning_Rider]

ISFJ's are not usually stingy with money though.

 

[d@v3]

ISFJ's are not usually stingy with money though.

Well... you can't be stingy in any way and actually be a "happy" person. On the other hand, you can't just go out and spend money like you own a mint press or a printery. :rolli:

 

[EvangelineEmma]

• 
  
  [*]Subtle guilt trips through self-victimization
  [*]Actively being a paragon of virtue, to use as leverage later ("If I'm perfect, then you have no excuse to be upset with me.")
  [*]Generally passive-aggressive (occasionally downright aggressive if they feel justified or people they love are threatened)
• Self-pity/withdrawal/self-castigation
  [*]Mentally able to block out things they don't want to address (denial and repression)
  [*]Can keep a record of wrongs easily
• Prone to wild speculation when things are forced outside the box (i.e., weak N abilities)

Those are the things I generally have experienced.

This list sounds eerily like my mother, particularly what's been bolded.

My mother has been codependent of a man in an emotionally abusive relationship for some 18 years, and tends to spiral between one moment (literally) classifying him as the living incarnation of the devil and the next, this almighty, almost worshipable figure. It's very perplexing, really.

She has succesfully mastered the tactic of self-victimization and never yields from stressing her virtues and gooddoings. She claims constantly to have a stored "personal Pandora's box" in her heart filled with ill-will and harsh memories she threatens people with unveiling, and will become offended even with tap of a finger.

Despite clearly seeking my advice and wanting a person to vent to (she stresses this enough verbally), she quickly resorts to regression and denial, instead placing the blame on the 'terrible, unappreciative" people surrounding her.

I've tried continuously to tell her to fend for herself and stop tolerating the antics of my father (from whom she, ironically, expects romantic and touchy-feely gestures and affection), only to then here her deny having any issues in her marriage and hear her describe her husband as the kindest, most helpful man you could acquaint with.

Her passive-agression has lately reached a new extreme, particularly after my father's last visit which, apparently, "broke her heart", as she now speaks constantly of getting "revenge and letting the world know who she is." I've what sense there is in seeking vengeance and burdening herself so much with hatred and despair, which only sets her off into a greater, and very long-lasting, rampage.

I truly don't know what to do for her anymore. I've tried to assist and counsel my mother to the best of my abilities, but nothing seems to assauge her.

 

[Space Socks]

This list sounds eerily like my mother, particularly what's been bolded.

My mother has been codependent of a man in an emotionally abusive relationship for some 18 years, and tends to spiral between one moment (literally) classifying him as the living incarnation of the devil and the next, this almighty, almost worshipable figure. It's very perplexing, really.

She has succesfully mastered the tactic of self-victimization and never yields from stressing her virtues and gooddoings. She claims constantly to have a stored "personal Pandora's box" in her heart filled with ill-will and harsh memories she threatens people with unveiling, and will become offended even with tap of a finger.

Despite clearly seeking my advice and wanting a person to vent to (she stresses this enough verbally), she quickly resorts to regression and denial, instead placing the blame on the 'terrible, unappreciative" people surrounding her.

I've tried continuously to tell her to fend for herself and stop tolerating the antics of my father (from whom she, ironically, expects romantic and touchy-feely gestures and affection), only to then here her deny having any issues in her marriage and hear her describe her husband as the kindest, most helpful man you could acquaint with.

Her passive-agression has lately reached a new extreme, particularly after my father's last visit which, apparently, "broke her heart", as she now speaks constantly of getting "revenge and letting the world know who she is." I've what sense there is in seeking vengeance and burdening herself so much with hatred and despair, which only sets her off into a greater, and very long-lasting, rampage.

I truly don't know what to do for her anymore. I've tried to assist and counsel my mother to the best of my abilities, but nothing seems to assauge her.

Sounds like an isfj with a bit of BPD. The extremes (in my opinion) of her behavior are rather unnerving. She claims to have a black-mail list of evidence, and this I think is what keeps an isfj (of this degree) from releasing herself from the issues. You have to disarm her by getting her to examine her grudges and to see the effects they'll take in the long run. Sounds like she is rather short sighted because her expectations are immediate and relational to what she believes she has done for others.

Us ISFJs have a difficult time forgiving ourselves and we need reminders so that they eventually stick with us.

In my case, it has been most helpful and eye opening when the person I care about the most tells me I am wrong. She already looks to you for some comfort, but she has to know that her behavior is taking a toll on you. I don't know if its harsh, honest criticism that she needs, but it has certainly helped me and a few other ISFJs I know.

Of course, there are more factors I'm sure, and I don't want to continue assuming.
What is your relationship like with her, and any others aside from your father?

 

[Porcelain Hearts]

The consequences of the passive aggressiveness is severely taxing in my parents' case. My mother and father have been divorced for almost 15 years, but still live together to keep the family. They've both been seeing other people. However my mom just recently revealed that she still harbours feelings for my dad after finding out he's been seeing someone. It was 15 years of distraction/resentment/suppressed emotions. Where did this come from? It came to a surprise for my father as it has to myself and my brothers. My dad is now faced with a dramatic decision to choose between my mother and the woman he's been seeing for six years. My mom has held a grudge for this long, it's almost scary to think it won't happen again. She always hoped my father could make up for his wrongdoings or provide in the way she expects him to without asking. She's remembered every single wrong my father has committed since marriage as her own justification for him to make amends. It's like she can't live in the future. She's too guarded (especially because of her strict upbringing) to trust anyone else, especially for dating.

My dad... I've asked who he has more feelings for, but he's a rationalist. He doesn't choose with feelings. He chooses with responsibility and is willing to start a relationship again. My mom can't support herself; it's weird, she's a hard-worker, but her careers never took off. What he is scared about is her unconscious ability to exaggerate or lie to get information that she's seeking or to protect someone from getting hurt. She never means any harm by doing so, but I don't know how being passive aggressive has ever worked for her and in all honesty, I can't even trust her myself.

 

[Space Socks]

Too be honest, for ISFJs, PA has always been our default defense. It is a poison we both take and give, and unfortunately abuse. I myself am learning to confront all my problems rationally and feel I've matured quite a bit from that PA stage. The only times I see myself returning to this mode is when I'm forced to be around someone who I simply cannot confront without setting an even worse environment for myself. I'm currently in a situation where I cannot escape this notion, and so I am grateful for being instilled with the skills to block out the presence of negativity that I associate with said person. In my mind, I've forgiven myself and the other(full confrontation and forgiveness) for the issues between us and so I remain neutral for now. By neutral, I mean being respectful towards their presence because they are still human, just one who has done me wrong.

 

[Porcelain Hearts]

Too be honest, for ISFJs, PA has always been our default defense. It is a poison we both take and give, and unfortunately abuse. I myself am learning to confront all my problems rationally and feel I've matured quite a bit from that PA stage. The only times I see myself returning to this mode is when I'm forced to be around someone who I simply cannot confront without setting an even worse environment for myself. I'm currently in a situation where I cannot escape this notion, and so I am grateful for being instilled with the skills to block out the presence of negativity that I associate with said person. In my mind, I've forgiven myself and the other(full confrontation and forgiveness) for the issues between us and so I remain neutral for now. By neutral, I mean being respectful towards their presence because they are still human, just one who has done me wrong.

Letting go can be hard, but I believe you when you claim you release these tensions with the right reasoning. You're probably responsible by nature and unfortunately, many people aren't. Different people offer different things, and it puts trust into different outcomes.

 

[Fire]

• Martyrdom
• Nagging and criticism
• Perfectionism/Never happy
• Prolonged instability leads to inertia
• Expect the worst
• Gossips
• Lets self go/Laziness

 

[Mitsuko Souma]

I think a good fictional example would be Bellatrix Lestrange from the Harry Potter series. She seems to be an ISFJ and is extremely "unhealthy."