[MBTI General] ENTP/ISFJ Relationship

[xjustyoursmile]

Hey everyone! I'm new here! I'm a well-rounded ENTP. It has been a difficult journey, but I'm happy to say that after trying so hard and going through a lot of things, I've developed a good understanding of those stubborn little things called 'feelings'. (I can actually get pretty emotional now and -gasp- cry in front of people??? Blasphemy!)

I've been lurking around trying to gather information on how ISFJs work because, well, I kind of have a crush on one. We have an established friendship, although we've only known each other for about four months (since law school began). Because of my really good observation skills, I pinned him as an introvert really early on even though he got out of his comfort zone by going out to the bars with big groups of people every week. You ISFJs are good at being group chameleons (but I see you blending into the corner, get outta there!) At one point I mentioned the Meyer-Briggs test and he took it, coming out as an ISFJ. Knowing him, it definitely makes sense.

I guess I have two questions:
(1) How, as an ENTP, I can build a good relationship with an ISFJ?
(2) How can I tell if he's into me too?

I guess I should mention I've very aware of how he works, so I've been very subtle (I tend to flirt very subtly anyway, unless I'm with the person). He also mentioned (very early on) that he isn't looking for anyone because he still has feelings for his ex-girlfriend back at home (they broke up because of the distance, although I believe couples NEVER break up because of the distance and that's an excuse for other problems...).

At the same time though, I can't help but think that he's been flirting with me and showing me he's interested. I know that he's probably testing the waters, but we've been hanging out more and more and then he does those "little" things (which I love) like interrupt me while I'm collecting everyone's trash to throw it away and doing it himself for me.

I'm aware that he's probably mulling over his feelings for his ex while our relationship slowly gets stronger and I don't want to be "that girl" who purposefully manipulates him into moving on. I'd like him to move on on his own, for his own sake, and for mine too if it goes anywhere. How do I deal with this? I'm getting ENTP impatient and wanting to just give him an obvious hint like "accidentally" keeping my hand on him for too long or something.

Thanks!!!
-Smile

 

[idkman24]

I'm an INFJ who has had an ISFJ crushing on him for nearly 4 years now, and has been crushing on an ENTP for almost a year now.

I'm a guy, so that may not be VERY helpful.

Anyways, I find that the ISFJ REALLY likes me because I sort of take control and play hard to get. I think ISFJ women like "manly" men, so I assume ISFJ men like "feminine" women.

Honestly, the way, I think, to get into an ISFJ's heart is to just show you're an Alpha, and take charge. Joke around, do most of the talking, play a little hard to get. The thing with my ISFJ is she has ALL the ingredients to be date-worthy. VERY cute, beautiful body, intelligent, kinda freaky, just all the things I like in a girl....except for one thing. SHE'S NOT SEXUAL ENOUGH.

I can tell she's very engaged in me when we speak. I make impossible scenarios, am a bit arrogant around her, and she just eats it all up.

Frankly, the way she would win a date with me is not to take me too seriously, and honestly, wear a skirt and act a little frisky.

As an ENTP woman, you may be uncomfortable with this, but touch him when you talk to him. Wear a tiny dress, but nothing TOO revealing. ISxJs are the most conservative of all the types. Be sexy, not too sexual. Blow his mind a little bit. Remember, he's an Si dominant, so he'll probably go for something that appears Se dominant. As a woman, you can REALLY use this to your advantage. Maybe it's my NiFe, but I can tell when a woman is trying TOO hard around me. Make sure you try, but not TOO hard. My suggestion? V-cut shirt, yoga pants, and something that shows a little ankle. Also, a little mascara goes a LONG way.

Reading your post makes me wonder about my ENTP crush. She has NO idea about social rules, and she flirts VERY subtly in her speech. Sometimes, I'm not sure if it's her sx-variant or if she likes me.

But she recently told me that she, essentially, only sees me as a friend. So moving on from that.

EDIT: Reread that, realized it was probably not that helpful.

 

[Cellmold]

Get out while you can!

 

[xjustyoursmile]

-->Honestly, the way, I think, to get into an ISFJ's heart is to just show you're an Alpha, and take charge. Joke around, do most of the talking, play a little hard to get.

-->As an ENTP woman, you may be uncomfortable with this, but touch him when you talk to him. Wear a tiny dress, but nothing TOO revealing. ISxJs are the most conservative of all the types. Be sexy, not too sexual. Blow his mind a little bit.

-->Reading your post makes me wonder about my ENTP crush. She has NO idea about social rules, and she flirts VERY subtly in her speech. Sometimes, I'm not sure if it's her sx-variant or if she likes me.

But she recently told me that she, essentially, only sees me as a friend. So moving on from that.

First of all, YAY INFJ! All the people closest to me are INFJs.

And now that you mention it, my ISFJ said once that when he gets rejected he just takes it as a challenge to "be even more charming". I actually have been told I flirt by accidentally playing hard to get. I invite people to things around the person and invite them last, etc. It just turns out that way because I get shy being too direct unless I'm with the guy (then it's just me staring at him as much as I'd like because I know it's ok).

I try to dress well when I know I'm seeing him, or at least in 'cute' comfy clothes. He notices what I wear, but I can never tell if it's because he's actually interested. I know that he doesn't like overly sexual things. I think he thinks it's too forward. Which is fine with me since I'm a bit modest about my body.

And actually... I think you may be right. I should probably touch him just a little more. I've been avoiding it but then he stares at me when I suddenly surprise hug my girlfriends as if he feels left out. I just get shy...

As for your ENTP crush, I would say that we would flirt very subtly. I think a big factor in determining whether we find you attractive is if we tease you. I tease my girlfriends all the time because I know it would never get romantic but when if comes to teasing guys, I usually am the one getting teased in platonic relationships because I don't tease back on purpose. Usually we pick on something we actually like about you and say something sarcastically when we actually mean it. ("You're soooo the hottest person hereee" - with a Cheshire Cat grin). I know that some people can take that the wrong way so I don't bring that out until I know they won't feel hurt by it. But if she told you that you're just a friend without any hesitancy.... Well.... I don't know about that. I think ENTPs are very honest, but ENTPs are also very picky. So I would say she values you if you're in her circle.

Get out while you can!

Okay, you saying that with THAT avatar really freaks me out!

 

[Cellmold]

Okay, you saying that with THAT avatar really freaks me out!

It's not a satisfying day without freaking someone out.

 

[xjustyoursmile]

It's not a satisfying day without freaking someone out.

I feel like there should be a creepypasta on that avatar of yours...

This is slowly turning into American Horror Story (which I am excited to see tonight).

 

[Showbread]

Anyways, I find that the ISFJ REALLY likes me because I sort of take control and play hard to get. I think ISFJ women like "manly" men, so I assume ISFJ men like "feminine" women.

Mmmm, I don't know about that. My ISFJ is much more into sensitive artsy guys.

But, on the main topic. I have had a similar situation. I'm an ESFJ that had feelings for an INTP for quite awhile. I was never really interested in dating him though, it was complicated. Anyway... The ISFJ I know is not comfortable taking charge, so I would be a bit more forward.

 

[idkman24]

I feel like there should be a creepypasta on that avatar of yours...

This is slowly turning into American Horror Story (which I am excited to see tonight).

One of my favorite shows!

My ENTP is a film major and watches EVERY show.....EXCEPT American Horror Story!

Her reason? "It's a Sensor's kinda show. I see no real value in it." To her, the most important part of a show is the characters THEN the plot. She thinks that Game of Thrones is the best thing ever and that it's EXTREMELY an iNtuitive show. I think she just talks out of her ass sometimes.

Her and my interactions are somewhat funny. In public, she's usually pretty frantic around me. Almost unsure of herself, sometimes seeming bothered in her speech, as if she doesn't know what to say. Then, in private, when it's just her and me, she is EXTREMELY confident. She knows I want her.

BUT I ended all of that. She friend zoned me pretty hard. I told her I liked her, I wanted to have sex with her, and that we couldn't be friends. We still talk from time to time, but lately, it has been about once every 10 or so days. Last convo (two days ago) was a little heated. It was about her being stuck in a love triangle of 3 people and her patronizing me, essentially telling me that if she could choose who she likes, things would be different for me. I smell BS. I already have my next conversation with her all planned out.

Anyways, I actually can't say I know of any ISFJ guys except for MAYBE my best friend's dad. He HATES confrontation, is kind of a pushover, and runs away from his family problems. His wife puts up with it all, and I know it bugs her that he's "Mr. Unconfrontational" (as she calls him). To me, he's not a man.

ANYWAYS. I can get jealous of a girl that I know likes me but starts liking another guy, even if it is JUST to make me jealous. I think ISFJs are like this too. I say show off your wit a little bit around him, and (don't take this the wrong way), but I just see in an ENTP-ISFJ relationship, regardless of gender, that the ENTP would wear the pants. Make it a moment. Hang out, just the two of you, watch a horror movie together, at a scary part, sort of grab him, but laugh, then at the end of the movie (or during), grab him for a make-out session. Be a bit aggressive. The ISFJ girls I know like to be tossed around a little, maybe the guys are the same way. Start off slow, and slowly build it up. Also, would DEFINITELY help if booz was involved, and maybe some (somewhat deep) conversation.

Funny. I've realized that strong Sensing types aren't very good at deep conversations, but they LIKE them. They also like the illusion of helping others. This may make him feel closer to you. Then, JUMP HIS BONES.

Even as an INFJ who, at times, comes off ESTP (and even ENTJ at times), a girl that is confident and comfortable with herself is the sexiest thing. An aggressive girl can tame me. Funny thing is, most find me too intimidating. Waiting for that ENTP that 'wow's me between the sheets.

 

[idkman24]

Mmmm, I don't know about that. My ISFJ is much more into sensitive artsy guys.

But, on the main topic. I have had a similar situation. I'm an ESFJ that had feelings for an INTP for quite awhile. I was never really interested in dating him though, it was complicated. Anyway... The ISFJ I know is not comfortable taking charge, so I would be a bit more forward.

I can KIND OF agree to this. The ISFJ I know has told me that she can tell I'm much more sensitive and mushier in the middle than how I show the world. As for artsy, I'm not, at all.

ISFJs are NOT comfortable taking charge. That's why I couldn't date one. I like a girl that is OK with wearing the pants ever so often. So sexy to me. My ISFJ can probably get me if she wore a short skirt, said something REALLY intelligent and intriguing that I could ponder over, and jump my bones.....aggressively. That soft, limp BS will just weird me out. This, however, is nothing to expect from an ISFJ.

 

[tinker683]

ISFJ male, reporting in my lovely lady of ENTP

I just got out of testing for my next Kung Fu belt and a rehearsal for a dance performance I'm doing next month so I apologize for my silliness, but when I get all worked out like this...all the testosterone hits me and I get all goofy and alpha-maleish and my inferior Ne comes roaring to the surface so..again, I apologize in advance...

Hey everyone!

O hai thar :hi:

I'm new here! I'm a well-rounded ENTP. It has been a difficult journey, but I'm happy to say that after trying so hard and going through a lot of things, I've developed a good understanding of those stubborn little things called 'feelings'. (I can actually get pretty emotional now and -gasp- cry in front of people??? Blasphemy!)

RUBBISH! You ExTPs are supposed to be cold, unfeeling Cylons that totally rock in bed! You can't have it both ways!!

I've been lurking around trying to gather information on how ISFJs work because, well, I kind of have a crush on one. We have an established friendship, although we've only known each other for about four months (since law school began). Because of my really good observation skills, I pinned him as an introvert really early on even though he got out of his comfort zone by going out to the bars with big groups of people every week. You ISFJs are good at being group chameleons (but I see you blending into the corner, get outta there!) At one point I mentioned the Meyer-Briggs test and he took it, coming out as an ISFJ. Knowing him, it definitely makes sense.

I guess I have two questions:
(1) How, as an ENTP, I can build a good relationship with an ISFJ?
(2) How can I tell if he's into me too?

My answer to question 1: Talk to him, hang out with him, show a sincere interest in the things he really likes, and use that Extrovertiness (Yes that is in fact a word you can score points in Scrabble with, DON'T DISPUTE ME!) very well. I relax around extroverts because they do all the work for me and I don't feel pressured to have to constantly exert myself. These, along with time, will build a pretty solid relationship my thinks. Or at least it would with me.

My answer to question 2: I'd say this depends a lot of his confidence and self esteem. Back when my self-esteem was non-existent, I used to think I was a 'subtle' flirt when in reality I wasn't flirting at all, just doing doing this really awkward shuffling thing. Maybe it's because I'm more confident now or maybe it's because I'm older and my desire or ability to play those games just irks me and now when I'm interested in a woman, I have all the subtly of a plane crash. I will flat out ask her (after all the appropriate introductions and such) if I can take her out on a date because I really like her. Yes, that's very direct, but sonofbitch it makes shit a whole lot easier.

So...yeah, to get back to your question: You would know if he liked you. ISFJs aren't, as far as I know anyway, the game players

I guess I should mention I've very aware of how he works, so I've been very subtle (I tend to flirt very subtly anyway, unless I'm with the person). He also mentioned (very early on) that he isn't looking for anyone because he still has feelings for his ex-girlfriend back at home (they broke up because of the distance, although I believe couples NEVER break up because of the distance and that's an excuse for other problems...).

WHOA. Hold up, big red flag here. If he's telling you he's not over his ex....there is an exceedingly good chance he's not over her and if he's really not over her....you're fighting a *very* steep up hill battle

At the same time though, I can't help but think that he's been flirting with me and showing me he's interested. I know that he's probably testing the waters, but we've been hanging out more and more and then he does those "little" things (which I love) like interrupt me while I'm collecting everyone's trash to throw it away and doing it himself for me.

....or you're allowing your feelings to cloud your judgement and you're thinking wishfully. He may just be a stand up kind of a guy. I know that people who are infatuated with someone tend to over-examine and exaggerate the actions of their limerent object.

...or he may genuinely like you but he's not sure of what he wants. Blah, it's a confusing mess.

I'm aware that he's probably mulling over his feelings for his ex while our relationship slowly gets stronger and I don't want to be "that girl" who purposefully manipulates him into moving on. I'd like him to move on on his own, for his own sake, and for mine too if it goes anywhere. How do I deal with this? I'm getting ENTP impatient and wanting to just give him an obvious hint like "accidentally" keeping my hand on him for too long or something.

Thanks!!!
-Smile

The bold made me laugh. You can't manipulate him to move on. Either he does, or he doesn't. You may present yourself as a very enticing thing to shift his feelings towards (and I have little doubt you are ) but ultimately its a decision he makes for himself.

Now...that being said...my final bit of advice: Cut the bovine scatology and JUST. BLOODY. TELL HIM. If he does like you, he'll respond to your interest. I know if a girl I'm interested in comes up and tells me she feels the same way, it's everything I can do to keep from pouncing on her right then and there

And if he's not...or he isn't ready, then you'll at least know where you stand and your Ne-dom self won't spin itself in circles over this.


Good luck! I have little doubt you're a great catch

 

[skylights]

I guess I have two questions:
(1) How, as an ENTP, I can build a good relationship with an ISFJ?
(2) How can I tell if he's into me too?

(1) Be genuine and kind. Enjoy him and appreciate him.
(2) Ask him.

Just tell him you find him attractive and you know he's got complex feelings regarding his ex, but you're hoping that if he gets to a point where he'd consider moving on and you're still available, that he would consider you. See how he responds. Even if he says he needs more time, once you've told him, that Si isn't going to forget... it might even get his moving-on wheels turning. It's the same answer as the first question, really. Be genuine in telling him you're interested in him, and kind in giving him the emotional time he needs to move on, without putting pressure on him to be ready to fulfill your desire.

I know it's so much easier to stay outside Schrodinger's box... but you won't get a real answer if you don't let him know.

Good luck!

(- in LTR with ISFJ)

 

[rogue350]

Wouldn't there be some sort of issue because you don't express your feelings as well as he does. Usually the woman should be more emotionally developed, right? Has anyone else ran into this issue?

 

[tinker683]

Wouldn't there be some sort of issue because you don't express your feelings as well as he does. Usually the woman should be more emotionally developed, right? Has anyone else ran into this issue?

My ex was emotionally retarded and...yeah, it was a big issue for me

 

[skylights]

Wouldn't there be some sort of issue because you don't express your feelings as well as he does. Usually the woman should be more emotionally developed, right? Has anyone else ran into this issue?

I think it is fairly standard for one partner to be less emotionally fluid than the other. Conventionally the less emotional partner is the man, but there are plenty of couples where that is reversed. It just depends on how much difference each partner can reasonably accommodate. Unfortunately with better ability to express emotion usually comes greater emotional intensity, too. Personally I prefer little emotion over much emotion in a partner, but being the female, I fall into the conventional group. A very unemotional friend of mine is quite the opposite, and prefers more emotionally expressive men.

 

[digesthisickness]

My experience with ISFJs is that they are always more emotional than I am. Way too emotional, really. I can only appreciate every little thing so much before feeling totally ingenuine (wait, apparently that isn't a word. I just checked, and it's not. OMFG. Okay then, insincere it is) and would rather scream than show more.

 

[bronte27]

I think ISFJ women like "manly" men, so I assume ISFJ men like "feminine" women.

Nope sorry, I prefer the more "sensitive" and "nerdy" types over macho men. Could just be me of course.

 

[amazonian]

I am a female ISFJ, so it may not be quite the same, but I will do my best to give you some insight. If he is anything like me, he doesn't want to get his heart broken by acting before you do. So, I think subtle signs on your part are good. Also, we aren't very good at interpreting subtle signs. The guy I like I think may like me back, as I believe he may be giving me subtle signs, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. Therefore, if I were you, I would try to give some signs that are subtle yet obvious so that he will actually realize it is a sign.