• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[SJ] Are SJ's more normal or less unique than the rest of the types?

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Continuing this discussion:

Did you really just say SJs are not unique individuals?
Not as unique as other types, by my concept of unique. I don't expect you to agree, and I could be wrong, but my experience has been that they're almost all really normal people in most ways.
@greenfairy, When it is said that way, it sounds like if I know one infj then I know you. So why bother talking to you at all when I have that other one.
I'm speaking in generalities, not saying all people are a certain way. I'm atypical of INFJ's in some ways, but it's still true that most INFJ's have those traits.
Then INFJs aren't unique individuals either. Or, they are, just like SJs, and simply less numerous percentage-wise.
Yeah. Also, if the SJ's parents were that way, that would also influence them.
Yes fully agree about parents. I also think Je likes it when things work in a cohesive structure, and SJ types of course have Je.

Particularly, I was saying that SJ's are less unique than other types. This sounds like a stereotype. Is it true or false? In what way, and for what reasons? I don't think there is any reason to think a priori that it is false, unless we are attaching value to uniqueness, which I'm not. I think the bolded comes closest to the truth if you define normal by being statistically common, believe that people of the same temperament have many of the same qualities, that these translate into other things which define more broad commonalities, and that there are more SJ's in the population. If these things are true then it would follow that SJ's are more normal because they are most like each other and they are most numerous, hence contributing greatly to what is normal in the first place.

Thoughts?

[MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION] [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] [MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION]
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ok, really not trying to be a jerk, but the before this takes off, I feel like the question might need to be tweaked.

I'm not usually one to throw these kinds of things at people, but when I read the question, I really had a hard time thinking about what it even meant.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000269.htm
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ok, really not trying to be a jerk, but the before this takes off, I feel like the question might need to be tweaked.

I'm not usually one to throw these kinds of things at people, but when I read the question, I really had a hard time thinking about what it even meant.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000269.htm
Ah! You learn something new every day.

I'm not implying that an SJ individual is not unique, because that would mean they had an identical copy...

I don't know how to better phrase it though. How would language capture my meaning? By "unique" I mean possessing a high number of characteristics which taken together constitute a personality which is very uncommon. It's more than the summation of characteristics.

Of course everyone's personality is more than the summation of their characteristics, but some sets of characteristics are way more common than others and so their overall personalities would be more similar to each other than to ones whose characteristics are less common.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I don't think they are less unique. Perhaps, though, they may value social conventions (which can be highly variable) to a greater degree than other types, which may make them appear more uniform on the surface.

You can be conventional in some areas and less so in others. My family is pretty damn conventional on the surface in a lot of ways, but five of the six of us are INs. We're nerdy and politically liberal for our geographic area and socio-eco group, but we're still working class mid-westerners and to an outsider, a sheep would likely look like any other sheep.
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ah! You learn something new every day.

I'm not implying that an SJ individual is not unique, because that would mean they had an identical copy...

I don't know how to better phrase it though. How would language capture my meaning? By "unique" I mean possessing a high number of characteristics which taken together constitute a personality which is very uncommon. It's more than the summation of characteristics.

Of course everyone's personality is more than the summation of their characteristics, but some sets of characteristics are way more common than others and so their overall personalities would be more similar to each other than to ones whose characteristics are less common.

I totally get what you mean about sheer numbers. There are fewer INFJs than any other type, and definitely fewer than all SJ types. That would make INFJs a more exclusive group by nature. And yeah, they share their INFJ-ness in common. And, there are shared characteristics with SJ types (but there are lots of SJ types, so they're definitely all colored differently).

I also thought you might be talking about conventionality. Like SJs are more prone to having conventional interests or preferences or even belief systems and ways of thinking.

But I think the problem with the word unique is that every single person is unique. And having less conventional or more obscure interests or tendencies doesn't make you more unique than any SJ.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
There are certainly patterns associated with certain types. I think, however, that the ones we have associated with SJs are off and inaccurate. There are individuals who throw off these patterns for any type, however I think the pattern ascribed to SJs is not even close to being correct. The association with political conservatism is bunk, although perhaps it might be true for many of the SJs you have known personally. I would be quicker to associate SJs with being "conservative"' in a non-political sense.

SJ's may, however, define the characteristics of a culture of group, however. That's a very interesting theory, that the presence of a single set of character traits or interests associated with a specific group is due to the SJs holding on to those. There might be something to that.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
Oh Lawdy. :rolleyes:

If everyone is unique, then who really is?

You N's are pretty average yourselves.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
Continuing this discussion:









Particularly, I was saying that SJ's are less unique than other types. This sounds like a stereotype. Is it true or false? In what way, and for what reasons? I don't think there is any reason to think a priori that it is false, unless we are attaching value to uniqueness, which I'm not. I think the bolded comes closest to the truth if you define normal by being statistically common, believe that people of the same temperament have many of the same qualities, that these translate into other things which define more broad commonalities, and that there are more SJ's in the population. If these things are true then it would follow that SJ's are more normal because they are most like each other and they are most numerous, hence contributing greatly to what is normal in the first place.

Thoughts?

[MENTION=74]digesthisickness[/MENTION] [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] [MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION]

Sherlock Holmes has a ubiquitous type?

I wonder how Conan Doyle pulled that off? I mean hero of the tale? And that series ran and ran and ran, inspired many imitators, launched an entire genre of writing more or less, with a ubiquitous character type in the lead? Conan Doyle, what a guy. :happy2:
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
If everyone is unique, then who really is?

You N's are pretty average yourselves.

To everyone:

Nobody is unique. Individuals do not exist. Your favorite band is irrelevant as to my assessment of your character. You may have put different letters in your MBTI description, but I can guess with probably 90% certainty what your last three MBTI letters are. Prepare for assimilation into soulless Ti.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
There are certainly patterns associated with certain types. I think, however, that the ones we have associated with SJs are off and inaccurate. There are individuals who throw off these patterns for any type, however I think the pattern ascribed to SJs is not even close to being correct. The association with political conservatism is bunk, although perhaps it might be true for many of the SJs you have known personally.

SJ's may, however, define the characteristics of a culture of group, however. That's a very interesting theory, that the presence of a single set of character traits or interests associated with a specific group is due to the SJs holding on to those. There might be something to that.

To be honest the whole SJ = Guardian/Guard thing I kind of relate to a different typology matrix, one which has conscientious, adventurous, devoted, vigilante personality types, each has a shadow so there's also neurotic, anti-social, obsession, paranoic and see what is being discussed in relation to SJ as a combination of conscientious and vigilante traits.

So an SJ who is a liberal could patrol discussions seeking to safe guard and promote the rights of their favourite underdogs, while an SJ who is not may patrol discussions seeking to challenge or counteract any rabble rousing liberals, the impluse or drives behind it would be the same, each could be described as "traditionalist" from within their own context.

The problem on this forum and others is that traditionalists, patrolling etc. is all exclusively associated, and negatively too, with authoritarian, old fashioned, out moded, conventional by implicitly (possibly vulgar if I'm being charitable) cultural liberalism, therefore that leads to attributions about types and also of types to particular people, when they express particular opinions. The opinion rather than the behaviour is being analysed.

The whole SJs are ubiquitous and numerous idea, closely associated with conformist and compliant which is probably implicit, is interesting though, it probably relates to the same cultural liberal ideology with its minority as underdog focus, or maybe an older Leninist deal about enlightened vanguards. Either way it sucks. Sucks donkey balls. In hell.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
Nobody is unique. Individuals do not exist. Prepare for assimilation.

And then the Borg had a Queen and they fucked up what was a good, scary humanoid villain the sort of which frightened me as a kid more than vampires and zombis.

Shit when I think about it TV and film has deliberately ruined all the monsters I was afraid off as a kid. It'd be awesome if this was all a deliberate shady, illuminati conspiracy to remove all prospects of trauma from the screen isolating shite parenting as the single variable in society fails.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The Borg are a metaphor for out of control globalization.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
To everyone:

Nobody is unique. Individuals do not exist. Your favorite band is irrelevant as to my assessment of your character. You may have put different letters in your MBTI description, but I can guess with probably 90% certainty what your last three MBTI letters are. Prepare for assimilation into soulless Ti.

Oh shit. Everyone on this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts.

WHAT IS REAL?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Oh shit. Everyone on this forum is actually one person with multiple accounts.

WHAT IS REAL?

This is all a dream. Tomorrow, everyone will wake up and find that they are, in fact, Nicholas Cage, if they are good (admirable), or Jar Jar Binks, if they are evil wicked (impish).
 
W

WALMART

Guest
People really don't get Si.

Was Monet just an average artist?
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
This is all a dream. Tomorrow, everyone will wake up and find that they are, in fact, Nicholas Cage, if they are good, and Jar Jar Binks, if they are evil.
Nicolas Cage, eh?


------


Now how do I relate this back to the topic? Um. We are all special snowflakes. According to this site, Nic Cage is an INFP. According to the OP, N's are more unique than N's. And the above video displays the quality of uniqueness and anti-normalcy by superimposing Nic Cage to a naked Miley Cyrus. It also shows a great display of talent, as syncing up the two images surely took some effort. Truly, the person who created the video is the specialest snowflake of them all.

--------

Okay. This was a terrible post, but I really don't want to write my paper.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So really the question becomes, is normal defined by the collection of personality types/temperaments by percentage, or, if it had been the case that other subsets of the population were predominant, would these types have conformed to the majority to the extent that they still would have been more "normal"?

I think it's a continuum rather than a dichotomy, so the answer will lie more on one side or the other. I'm guessing it's more PC to say the former, but my stereotypical argument that SJ's are more into conformity might have some merit. I don't know. I'm willing to throw it out if it looks like it's mistaken. :)
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Well, what is conformity? Is it necessarily a conscious thing? Maybe somebody is just doing what they would do anyway, and that happens to be in line with norm.

Some people considered themselves to be non-conformists, but then they just end up conforming to something else. That's still adherence to standards, it's merely different standards. I do not believe this should be considered to be more "individidualistic" because it's really not. For instance, someone might get involved in the punk scene, and then start bitching about how too many people in the scene aren't "punk" enough. I can never wrap my head around why some people consider that "better" than the other thing (unless it's perhaps merely what they would do anyway).

I kind of think non-conformity, being "weird", and '"genuineness" are bandied about these days in such a way that the words have lost all meaning. The only true non-conformists have severe mental illnesses. You probably see them on street corners talking about how the Chinese stole our Eggos.

 
Top