• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[SJ] SJs and stereotypically "boring"/routine jobs

Viridian

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
MBTI Type
IsFJ
I was recently musing the idea that there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between jobs/careers that are stereotypically considered "mundane", "boring", "dull" and "soul-crushing" and the sorts of jobs usually considered appealng to SJs due to their structured, methodical and steady nature, which makes them, at least theoretically, well-suited for said tasks.

However, these jobs are also pretty much considered synonymous with disillusionment and drudgery and giving up on your dreams, like in this comic by Chris Guillebeau.

My questions, then, are, for the SJs: do you find fulfillment on those jobs, or do you simply feel a duty to "keep on trucking"? Does it depend on particular aspects of the job? Do you feel those jobs are represented unfairly in media such as Guillebeau's comic? Do you, indeed, thrive in those environments? Are they close to what you consider your "dream job"?

Thank you in advance.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
Um, do you think the comic represents SJ behavior or SJ thinking? Or is that how you see SJ's in the world? Just curious.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
That comic is idiotic frustrating to me. I respect the idea behind it, but it also completely overlooks the fact that those "average" people are lucky enough to go to school, go to college, have loving parents, have an office job where you get to sit and even get downtime, have enough money to travel, be buying something significant enough to need a mortgage, and so on - first world problems.

I'm not sure I'm clear on the difference between "structured, methodical, and steady" jobs, and "mundane, boring, dull and soul-crushing" jobs. I think especially as a 6 I aspire to have a steady and stable job someday, and I feel some degree of aggravation when people rail against steady jobs. A job can be steady without being soul-crushing. Preferably it will be steady and constructive, creative, inspiring. A job can be detail-oriented without being mundane. And a job can be fast-paced and dull. It can be innovative and outside the box and destructive to the planet and the community. It can be cutting-edge and sophisticated and still personally unappealing. I'm less worried about living a "boring" life or a "conformist" life and more worried about living a immoral life or a dissatisfying life. And the SJs I know, love, and respect (as well as a couple that are less endearing) don't seem to be much different than anyone else in seeking a meaningful and hopeful life.

What jobs, exactly, are you referring to? What environments? A 40-hour workweek? An office job? ESFJ mom might be good with details but she sure seems to hate paperwork after hours just as much as the rest of us.
 

Viridian

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
MBTI Type
IsFJ
Um, do you think the comic represents SJ behavior or SJ thinking? Or is that how you see SJ's in the world? Just curious.

It doesn't necessarily represent how I view things. I am, after all, just a babe in the woods. ;)

In theory, it's about how those kinds of jobs are associated with drudgery and stuff.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
Funny, I was talking to a colleage today (ENTJ) who was telling me that in his new role, management promotes the idea that firedrills and mad dashes are exciting and will get you noticed. How you gonna stand out if EVERYBODY hustling like that?
 

Il Morto Che Parla

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,260
MBTI Type
xxTP
That comic is idiotic frustrating to me. I respect the idea behind it, but it also completely overlooks the fact that those "average" people are lucky enough to go to school, go to college, have loving parents, have an office job where you get to sit and even get downtime, have enough money to travel, be buying something significant enough to need a mortgage, and so on - first world problems.

I'm not sure I'm clear on the difference between "structured, methodical, and steady" jobs, and "mundane, boring, dull and soul-crushing" jobs. I think especially as a 6 I aspire to have a steady and stable job someday, and I feel some degree of aggravation when people rail against steady jobs. A job can be steady without being soul-crushing. Preferably it will be steady and constructive, creative, inspiring. A job can be detail-oriented without being mundane. And a job can be fast-paced and dull. It can be innovative and outside the box and destructive to the planet and the community. It can be cutting-edge and sophisticated and still personally unappealing. I'm less worried about living a "boring" life or a "conformist" life and more worried about living a immoral life or a dissatisfying life. And the SJs I know, love, and respect (as well as a couple that are less endearing) don't seem to be much different than anyone else in seeking a meaningful and hopeful life.

What jobs, exactly, are you referring to? What environments? A 40-hour workweek? An office job? ESFJ mom might be good with details but she sure seems to hate paperwork after hours just as much as the rest of us.

Out of interest, have you ever worked in an average office job in some menial position, thinking that would be your career for life?

At the end of the day, I don't have the right to judge anyone, if they like that job. But nobody has the right to judge me if I say I genuinely found it soul-destroying and worthless. It's all subjective. Rich people can be bored/depressed too, and have a right to express it. No-one is asking for charity.

You sound INFJ to me btw, I can just imagine my brother writing what you said.:D

which brings me to another point, I think J's in general can handle those kinds of jobs better than a P.

FWIW I changed careers and am now very happy in a fast-paced flexible job. Not "moral". But then I don't need it to be. Some people do. Each to their own.;)
 

Viridian

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
MBTI Type
IsFJ
Aw geez, I guess I failed at making those questions as open-ended as possible... :(

I'm not a career expert, which is why I used someone else's idea as a starting point and decided to see how it went from there.

And where are all the SJs? I wanna hear their 2¢...
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I was recently musing the idea that there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between jobs/careers that are stereotypically considered "mundane", "boring", "dull" and "soul-crushing" and the sorts of jobs usually considered appealng to SJs due to their structured, methodical and steady nature, which makes them, at least theoretically, well-suited for said tasks.

However, these jobs are also pretty much considered synonymous with disillusionment and drudgery and giving up on your dreams, like in this comic by Chris Guillebeau.

My questions, then, are, for the SJs: do you find fulfillment on those jobs, or do you simply feel a duty to "keep on trucking"? Does it depend on particular aspects of the job? Do you feel those jobs are represented unfairly in media such as Guillebeau's comic? Do you, indeed, thrive in those environments? Are they close to what you consider your "dream job"?

Thank you in advance.
Firstly, I don't think the comic is all that related to the jobs you're talking about. It's a generalization of what it's like, in general, to live a life that's too safe. Only walking the path that's been laid out for you, making no real decisions of your own. Sure, some SJs live lives like this, but others don't. The whole comic is a call for bold action and critical thinking, and SJs are just as capable of that as anyone else.

Implying that the comic represents SJs also suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be an SJ. I almost want to go through the comic, panel by panel, to refute it, but that would be too time-consuming.

Secondly, the stereotype of SJs being the ones that do mundane/boring jobs comes from the fact that we're very methodical, linear thinkers, very task-/goal-/detail-oriented, and satisfied with our jobs when we know that we're part of something greater. This means that SJs are a natural fit for methodical, linear, detail-oriented jobs within large, impersonal companies/organizations, because even if we get bored by those jobs -- which we often do! -- we're good at them, we can find entertainment elsewhere (e.g. talking to coworkers), and we're motivated by The Greater Good. Whereas, NJs might have a harder time staying in constant contact with that source of motivation (and would instead get intensely bored), and Perceivers would have a hard time focusing on such J-ish jobs.

It's important to note here that everyone needs job satisfaction -- that's not something that some types are excluded from. SJs aren't so self-sacrificing that they'd all work jobs they hate for their entire lives, for no greater cause. They'd need a reason to work there, some kind of deeper appreciation for the work they do. For SJs, the type of satisfaction that they'll want from a job would probably be one or more of these:

- The feeling of being part of something greater than yourself
- Being part of a like-minded community
- Being appreciated (and paid!) for the work that you're good at
- Fixing imperfections in the system, or maintaining the current working order of the system
- "Making the world a better place"
And, most importantly...
- Doing what you love.

Everything else -- job security, predictable work schedule, etc -- comes from being a J and seeing chaos and unpredictability as your enemy. Other Js want these same things, but other factors can get in the way.
 

Viridian

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
MBTI Type
IsFJ
[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]: Ah, thank you very much! I was hoping an SJ would help me break down the idea a little. :drwho:
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
If we loose the SJs as our slaves for the mundane jobs then we'll have to do it ! So never tell them that their jobs are boring rather speak of the "huge meaning their jobs have for society" or "their great chances to climb the career ladder".

Never ever tell them truth !!!! Big mistake :D
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
If we loose the SJs as our slaves for the mundane jobs then we'll have to do it ! So never tell them that their jobs are boring rather speak of the "huge meaning their jobs have for society" or "their great chances to climb the career ladder".

Never ever tell them truth !!!! Big mistake :D

What makes you think we dont know the truth?

Part of the sadness about this subject is that I am aware of the insignificance and unimportant nature of my job on the grand scale of the world. Yet I am still satisfied to be doing something of use to other people around me.

We cannot all be remarkable. I will most likely live and die doing the mundane things of the world. Why? Natural preference? Fortune? Just the way it is? Self imposed choice?

Possibly all those. But the mantra that is most entertaining in this sad truth is: "Someone has to do it." Responsibility is the main draw. Not because I necessarily enjoy it, but because im aware of what would happen if people like me didnt take it. It has little to do with mindless adherence, although it could easily have something to do with inferior Ne anxieties, but they are not all wrong.

That to me is the bigger picture in the structures we have created for ourselves. And in which we have trapped ourselves. Not that would shouldn't aim for something improved and better but upon examination of ones self...do I have the creative or inventive intelligence? Do I have the ideas? Do I have the hope and drive?

If I lack in these areas, the key areas of inspiration that is second nature to many intuitives and is the main catalyst in the improvement of our systems of reality; How else then... can I help the world? Or at least those around me? By doing something others cannot, or will not, do. Is it naive? Yes. Is it stupid? Possibly. Will I stop doing such tasks because of this revelation? No.

Because remember....someone has to do it.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Because remember....someone has to do it.

Generally people assume that the SJs are exactly those mindless drones you have around you all day which follow the logic 'someone has to do it'. The thing tho is that in the meantime the whole society has shifted a lot into the direction of the true human nature, which goes more along the line 'why should I do it, someone else will do it'. I actually think that the people who say 'I'll do it cause someone has to' have become quite small in numbers and this world is more reigned by big-headers and egoists.

One of the dreams you have to say ade to by age 30, if you arent a rocket scientist by then, is being a rocket scientist. the truth is how much jobs really in the end turn out to be that what you dreamt of at age 3. Even as a firefighter you prolly have to do more paperwork nowadays than rescuing naked woman from burning houses. So running around, judging jobs as stupid and not good enough for oneself, I think is not the right attitude.

the only thing I gravely hate are people who dont reinvent their jobs even a slight bit. There are some jobs you really cant reinvent much but at least you can do them with a smile. And the worst thing I think there is, is a totally depressed guy working strict routine and never deriving from that.

So I think, even if the job is boring, the only real thing that matters is what you make from it and how much fun, meaning or whatever you can bring to it yourself. if that is there, I'ld always admire people who say 'I'll do it cause someone has to' more than people who say 'I am too good for that job'.
 
Top