[MBTI General] How do ESFJs view INTJs?

[volk]

This is a question to all ESFJs. I want to know what you think about INTJs and if you ever reached a level of complete understanding with one. I don't have any S types at all among close friends, but according to socionics an ESFJ would be my best match. I can't really imagine how that can be true, since S and N people live in two different worlds and F people tend to require too much emotional maintainance.

 

[Haphazard]

Where are you getting this information?

ESFJs think INTJs are weird and rude. INTJs think ESFJs are nosy and obnoxious. That's the short of it.

 

[MetalWounds]

Where are you getting this information?

ESFJs think INTJs are weird and rude. INTJs think ESFJs are nosy and obnoxious. That's the short of it.

Second that.

 

[Domino]

I'm afraid it's true. INTJs don't usually seem to mesh well with extroverted SFs. They aren't the most "people friendly" of the types anyway (and I say this with an INTJ best friend whom I love dearly).

 

[Haphazard]

I'm afraid it's true. INTJs don't usually seem to mesh well with extroverted SFs. They aren't the most "people friendly" of the types anyway (and I say this with an INTJ best friend whom I love dearly).

No need to be polite. Most INTJs would readily admit that they're not 'people friendly.' Because, well, they aren't, and we try not to deny the painfully obvious.

 

[heart]

My mother was ESFJ and my father was INTJ. He seemed to think she was just as a woman should be, bubbly, decorative, entertaining, nurturing, adoring, emotional, psycho at times. (He was willing to overlook her abusive T shadow since it only came out with his kids when he wasn't there!)

She thought he was brilliant, funny, arrogant and enticingly enigmatic.

He was totally different around her when it was us family at home, he was open, affectionate, warm, talkative. Other people never believed this about him, but it was true.

Even now, I will relate stories to my husband about my Dad and husband will say "Your Dad would never do/say that!" But he would around my mother.

 

[volk]

Where are you getting this information?

ESFJs think INTJs are weird and rude. INTJs think ESFJs are nosy and obnoxious. That's the short of it.

socionics.com.

I agree with what you people say. I don't feel comfortable around any one who is S, especially ES. But it bothers me that socionics gives such a wrong impression. Though they do say that in the begining of a duality relation, the extroverted partner views introvert as nothing special at all. However over time they discover how much they need each other.

 

[Aerithria]

I wonder why they kept the J as a consistency and not the N. I agree that sometimes an introverted partner might need an extrovert for balance, but I've always taken that to mean ENFX/INTJ pairings, not ESFJ/INTJ ones.

 

[pure_mercury]

socionics.com.

I agree with what you people say. I don't feel comfortable around any one who is S, especially ES. But it bothers me that socionics gives such a wrong impression. Though they do say that in the begining of a duality relation, the extroverted partner views introvert as nothing special at all. However over time they discover how much they need each other.

What is it that makes you uncomfortable, if I may ask?

Also, one of my friends is an INTJ. He is a very intelligent guy, and a fine musician. He is also kind of weird and has a slightly "infantilized" view of the world. He can be kind of annoying, especially when drunk. A disagreement over music or social mores or what have you can be Twilight Zone-ish with him.

 

[Domino]

No need to be polite. Most INTJs would readily admit that they're not 'people friendly.' Because, well, they aren't, and we try not to deny the painfully obvious.

He says that he prefers my method of verbal karate-chop/board-to-the-head when he's being a creep than someone trying to wheedle-coax him through it. I just come out and say, "You're being a horse's rearend" and he responds well to it for some reason.

But then again, he's told me that he requires that kind of feedback because he doesn't always know when he's being callous or jerky. It may be particular to him, I don't know, but the same method worked on my INTP ex-bf. The direct approach.

Not to say that all INTJs need those prompts.

I wonder why they kept the J as a consistency and not the N. I agree that sometimes an introverted partner might need an extrovert for balance, but I've always taken that to mean ENFX/INTJ pairings, not ESFJ/INTJ ones.

I absolutely could NOT see myself with another J function. We get on like a house on fire when we're friends, but romantically? No. Too much push-pull and uncomfortable acquiescence. That's just me though.

Besides the scenario that Heart cited with her parents, I've never seen an ESFJ want to BOTHER with an INTJ, much less an INTJ bother with an ESFJ (who I suspect would general miss the grounded demonstrations and affection prevalent in other SFs or even STs....). N can be cold to cuddle up to. I have an ESFJ female friend who loves STPs, and I see that as having harmonious potential.

 

[volk]

What is it that makes you uncomfortable, if I may ask?

It doesn't make me uncomfortable. I just wander how ESFJ/INTJ can provide the best match for each other.

 

[Haphazard]

He says that he prefers my method of verbal karate-chop/board-to-the-head when he's being a creep than someone trying to wheedle-coax him through it. I just come out and say, "You're being a horse's rearend" and he responds well to it for some reason.

But then again, he's told me that he requires that kind of feedback because he doesn't always know when he's being callous or jerky. It may be particular to him, I don't know, but the same method worked on my INTP ex-bf. The direct approach.

Not to say that all INTJs need those prompts.

If an INTJ likes you, they'll want to keep you around, and they'll take measures to keep you around. Unfortunately, they might not be so sensitive as to when they're doing something wrong. They might get the feeling, but indirect coaxing leads to them making assumptions, which usually become even more out there than what's actually going on.

They're not likely to be seriously hurt by direct speech like this (and would probably be more hurt by indirect wheedling, because you're putting their feelings above their understanding) and more likely to just be a little embarrassed. They don't always need prompts, but they'll appreciate it a lot if you just tell them what's wrong instead of giving confusing signals and dancing around the subject.

 

[MetalWounds]

ESTJs usually have a great deal of malicious intent toward anything that doesn't fit their view of what something should be. I can get around that though, through the mutual use of Te. They have a no-bullshit attitude that I can genuinely appreciate.

An ESFJ, now there's someone that I will never quite understand. So I go into caustic INTJ mode. It's really the only way for me to be comfortable around them. Most ESFJs will tell you that I'm not so much wired, but a complete asshole. I don't get them, honestly I can't wrap my head around how they think. Fe is something that eludes me. In theory, I get it, but in reality not so much.
So my logic in dealing with them being; I don't understand it, therefore I cannot accurately predict or quantify their actions. This makes them a HUGE unknown, therefore a threat (because of my basic insecurity and more or less fear of rejection/control) in any situation. I can, however, accurately predict anger in almost anyone. I don't understand them, so I take them down to a level I can. Even detrimental conflict is preferred to unbridled ambiguity.

So maybe I've exaggerated a little here, but that's more or less how it is.

(The above is usually pertaining in a work environment, or any other environment that involves competition. Outside of work I really couldn't care less, we usually get along pretty well)

 

[Domino]

*gives you an Fe hotfoot*

 

[Ishida]

I have a ESFJ friend. (Probably more..) We get along well, it's just our interests are totally different. I break out the "objectivity" sometimes which may annoy him, and he gets mad over stuff I think is stupid, but it's never caused problems. We'll probably never understand each other fully, but that's ok because I tend to keep a good deal of myself..to myself around people who think I do weird things (98% of people because of the blue hair and love of weapons..) At least I think he's ESFJ at least. Not many people IRL are interested in this type thing like I am.

 

[pure_mercury]

I have a ESFJ friend. (Probably more..) We get along well, it's just our interests are totally different. I break out the "objectivity" sometimes which may annoy him, and he gets mad over stuff I think is stupid, but it's never caused problems. We'll probably never understand each other fully, but that's ok because I tend to keep a good deal of myself..to myself around people who think I do weird things (98% of people because of the blue hair and love of weapons..) At least I think he's ESFJ at least. Not many people IRL are interested in this type thing like I am.

If you open up more, he might understand you better. ESFJs THRIVE on interpersonal relationships and learning more about the people around us. We're less judgmental when we care about someone and can see where they're coming from.

 

[Haphazard]

If you open up more, he might understand you better. ESFJs THRIVE on interpersonal relationships and learning more about the people around us. We're less judgmental when we care about someone and can see where they're coming from.

Do ESFJs EVER get bored of listening to people talk?

I mean... my God... I think I've figured out what I don't like about Fe is that there can never be a moment of silence. There has to be talking, and it has to be of the interpersonal variety. You know, 'how was your day', etc. I'm bored by the mutinae in my own life, so why would I want to rehash it to someone else?

I think most INTJs have the same problem when communicating with people (many NTs, even) is that they're bored with mutinae and would rather talk about analysis in what's interesting to them... but their interests are usually so obscure that they're sure any conversation would involve about a twenty minute preface for explanation and would probably bore the hell out of the listener, anyway. So they just shut up and keep to themselves, remaining terribly nerdy.

And... if the OP was talking about socionics, the 'j' in socionics denotes the dominant function rather than the extroverted function. So, it would translate into INTP. INTP and ESFJ makes marginally more sense than INTJ and ESFJ. But only marginally.

 

[Jgib5328]

My grandma (ESFJ) and grandpa (INTJ) have been married for almost 50 years. I like ESFJs, although we are very different people. I think ESFJs would view the INTJ unfavorably because we don't conform to social ideals, which is important to ESFJs. I don't have any ESFJ friends, and it seems like the other INTJs don't either so it doesn't seem like our types mesh well.

 

[pure_mercury]

Do ESFJs EVER get bored of listening to people talk?

Eventually, yes. But there is so much to talk about that it rarely comes up. And ESFJs also let you know when they are in a bad mood and want to be left alone, so that usually isn't an issue. Plus, we like to be the talkers a lot of the time, so Introverts can make for great partners or friends if they are active listeners.

 

[Haphazard]

Eventually, yes. But there is so much to talk about that it rarely comes up. And ESFJs also let you know when they are in a bad mood and want to be left alone, so that usually isn't an issue. Plus, we like to be the talkers a lot of the time, so Introverts can make for great partners or friends if they are active listeners.

It must be nice to be able to talk to people without constantly thinking you're boring them.