[ISTJ] Ask an ISTJ.

[Cimarron]

I typically like reading poetry, but don't usually seek it out actively. I'm absolutely horrible at "writing" it, though.

 

[Nicodemus]

Hello ISTJs!

Do you have a good recollection of when certain things in your life occurred? How good: to the decade, year, month, day? I am speaking of things like seeing a person you do remember seeing, reading a book you do remember reading.

 

[The Iron Giant]

Hello ISTJs!

Do you have a good recollection of when certain things in your life occurred? How good: to the decade, year, month, day? I am speaking of things like seeing a person you do remember seeing, reading a book you do remember reading.

I can only remember those kinds of things with precision if there's a memorable enough impact involved that includes the date. Reading a book or encountering a person are not generally memorable enough events. This kind of thing was underscored when I was recently sorting photos by date on my computer. One summer, years ago, I went to Las Vegas. I stared at the photos, trying to remember what year it was. During that trip, I went to several places in California, including a wedding on Laguna Beach, Disneyland, a wax museum, Catalina, and more. While I remember all those events in great detail (largely thanks to having those photos to jog my memory) I had no idea when it happened.

 

[Nicodemus]

Thanks.

 

[soppixo]

Hello ISTJs!

Do you have a good recollection of when certain things in your life occurred? How good: to the decade, year, month, day? I am speaking of things like seeing a person you do remember seeing, reading a book you do remember reading.

I'm bad with dates and numbers, I tend to recollect through sensory/visual memory. The weather that day, the colours I can see, shapes and objects that represent that memory to me. Like the earliest happy memory I can recall- it is almost entirely visually focused, I don't remember much about where, when or what I did but the first thing that comes to my mind is the whale-shaped kiddy stroller they were pushing me in, the sharp glare of the light and heat from the sun, the way everything just seemed to fade away to white and the shades of blue everywhere. Incidentally I later learned it was an ocean-themed recreational park.

I'm not sure about other ISTJ's but I imagine everyone has their own ways of filing their memories for later perusal. Not all of us view things the same way, for example my dad is an ISTx as well but unlike me, his instinct for visual memory isn't as well-developed as mine. Which is why when we navigate through complicated pathways (like the innards of a mall or a densely packed housing estate) he always relies on me to find our way from point A to point B- when left alone he almost always ends up lost unless the visual clues are huge and unmistakable.

 

[RaptorWizard]

ISTJs do you think some of the stereotypes in your type descriptions like being a traditionalist or sticking to the good old fashioned way have any truth to them or are they false?

 

[The Iron Giant]

ISTJs do you think some of the stereotypes in your type descriptions like being a traditionalist or sticking to the good old fashioned way have any truth to them or are they false?

I would say they have some truth to them, but it's a really nuanced thing.

As Jung's introverted sensation type, we're defined by our detachment from the object, when instead we perceive things as their impression.

Normally the object is not consciously devalued in the least, but its stimulus is removed from it and immediately replaced by a subjective reaction no longer related to the reality of the object.

One of my favorite comparisons for Si is Plato's allegory of the cave. In a sense, we're perceiving the shadow. That may be good enough, or it may be spot on (to stick with the analogy, picture a large black stone casting a large black shadow. The impression cast on us by the object could be pretty much identical to the object, and hardly matter as much when they're just objects, instead of people).

If the object is a person, he feels completely devalued, while the subject has an illusory conception of reality, which in pathological cases goes so far that he is no longer able to distinguish between the real object and the subjective perception.

These impressions are formed by our experiences, so in a way, we're stuck in the past, favoring our impressions of things (almost a nostalgia) over the objective reality of what they are (which Se would do).

The huge caveat though is that, as Jung put it, this is a description of pathological cases. Of course, this was Jung's job, and it was how he defined all the types: by their extreme cases. When the creators of MBTI adapted Jung's work to both describe "normal folk" and to make it a tool for employee evaluation, they made some real changes in how type was defined. One such adaptation was saying that Si doms are traditional, when instead they have a tendency toward nostalgia. Many interpret "traditional" in a certain picket-fence, church-going, wife-and-2.3-kid-having way, instead of "nostalgic."

Te is the other part of the equation in this for ISTJs. Te leads us to favor what we have been taught and experienced over deep re-interpretations of systems, which would be more of an Ti thing. Generally, we will favor what we know over what is new, but keep in mind that everything we've learned was once something new. We will learn it if we want to, and if it makes sense, but it has to pass that test of fitting with our existing "factual" and "objective" knowledge. INTJs would be much the same way.

I have tattoos, led a BDSM lifestyle for a short time, and had an open marriage. I'm very strongly liberal, support same sex marriage (and in fact I feel outraged that it's considered unacceptable anywhere), and I'm an atheist. In some other ways, I'm pretty traditional. *straightens tie*

 

[EJCC]

ISTJs!

If you're going somewhere, and you've only been there once before, but you have no memory of an exact address, how do you usually decide to get there? Do you try to retrace your steps and follow your gut? Do you do all of your research, find the address, draw yourself a map? Some other thing to that effect?

I ask because I usually follow my gut, as my gut usually leads me to the right address... but I wonder if my "gut" is Si in disguise. Edit: I wonder that because of having read this a while back.

 

[UniqueMixture]

How do I get you guys to do drugs?

 

[The Iron Giant]

ISTJs!

If you're going somewhere, and you've only been there once before, but you have no memory of an exact address, how do you usually decide to get there? Do you try to retrace your steps and follow your gut? Do you do all of your research, find the address, draw yourself a map? Some other thing to that effect?

I ask because I usually follow my gut, as my gut usually leads me to the right address... but I wonder if my "gut" is Si in disguise. Edit: I wonder that because of having read this a while back.

I use my GPS. I have one in my car, and one built into my Thunderbolt that I use with the navigation function in Google Maps. If I'm going far I'll set it up on my phone before I leave, sometimes even the night before (and save the route to my places on Google) and then load it and go when I get in the car. If it's complex, like in Manhattan and navigation will be tight, I may set up both my phone and the GPS in my car and mute the one in the car, just so I have something I can glance at at need, because Google navigation is smarter, but the car's GPS is easier to read (mainly because it has a bracket on the windshield).

 

[The Iron Giant]

How do I get you guys to do drugs?

If it's me, you can't. I don't have any curiosity about, or interest in, impairing myself. I'm sure there are other ISTJs who use recreational drugs.

 

[Riva]

I have 2 ISTJ friend who have quite a lot of friends and acquaintances - socializes/associates a lot of people - who are good at reading people. I asked one of them how he does it to which he replies -

Most people who share the same body language - the way one walks, talks, interacts, voice tone, dress etc - tend to have the same personality traits. He also said that most times he is correct but on some other times he is shockingly wrong. I guess on MBTI terms he probably has strong Si. What he does is stereotyping based on his strong Si I guess.

The two ISTJs I described socializes - associates people - a lot therefore knows quite a lot of people therefore has the ability to recall so many people's traits and associate them with others and try and do this with certain efficiency.

So the question is - Do you do this too?

 

[/DG/]

So the question is - Do you do this too?

I'm obviously not speaking for all ISTJ's, but I'm a very absent-minded person. I often don't notice things and I'm certainly not someone who is good at reading people based on the subtleties of their actions.

 

[The Iron Giant]

I have 2 ISTJ friend who have quite a lot of friends and acquaintances - socializes/associates a lot of people - who are good at reading people. I asked one of them how he does it to which he replies -

Most people who share the same body language - the way one walks, talks, interacts, voice tone, dress etc - tend to have the same personality traits. He also said that most times he is correct but on some other times he is shockingly wrong. I guess on MBTI terms he probably has strong Si. What he does is stereotyping based on his strong Si I guess.

The two ISTJs I described socializes - associates people - a lot therefore knows quite a lot of people therefore has the ability to recall so many people's traits and associate them with others and try and do this with certain efficiency.

So the question is - Do you do this too?

Yes, in the sense that over time I've become not only better at reading people quickly, but more confident in my analysis. I can relate to the observation of body language, tone of voice, etc. I've realized that I talk to the different people I know in somewhat different ways based on those things. I find myself being nicer to the people who are considerate toward me and others, and very closed off to the people who are demanding and selfish, for example.

There's also something more subtle there. I will meet people and just *know* something's up, that I don't trust them, very quickly. Sometimes this happens before they even speak. That has to come from the way they carry themselves or an internal comparison to someone I already know. I try to be openminded and let people prove themselves one way or the other on their own, but those impressions are strong and I don't always know where they come from.

No, in the sense that I'm not a very social person. My friendliness comes in small doses, and I rarely go out and do things with friends.

 

[Cimarron]

I have 2 ISTJ friend who have quite a lot of friends and acquaintances - socializes/associates a lot of people - who are good at reading people. I asked one of them how he does it to which he replies -

Most people who share the same body language - the way one walks, talks, interacts, voice tone, dress etc - tend to have the same personality traits. He also said that most times he is correct but on some other times he is shockingly wrong. I guess on MBTI terms he probably has strong Si. What he does is stereotyping based on his strong Si I guess.

The two ISTJs I described socializes - associates people - a lot therefore knows quite a lot of people therefore has the ability to recall so many people's traits and associate them with others and try and do this with certain efficiency.

So the question is - Do you do this too?

Can't relate to that. In theory, I agree it should probably work, but I don't have skill with it.

 

[Redbone]

What sort of hobbies and interests appeal to you? I remember reading that Si-doms really go for history, scrapbook, focus-on-the past sort of things.

Also, do emotionally-charged events create more an imprint for you? I'm asking because I wonder about my own Si. If something is very upsetting or traumatic, I have marked trouble recalling what happened, how I felt...it's all incredibly vague. To the point where I sometimes forget the event until something triggers it. Even then it's hard to actually remember it without talking about it. How is it for you?

 

[EJCC]

Also, do emotionally-charged events create more an imprint for you? I'm asking because I wonder about my own Si. If something is very upsetting or traumatic, I have marked trouble recalling what happened, how I felt...it's all incredibly vague. To the point where I sometimes forget the event until something triggers it. Even then it's hard to actually remember it without talking about it. How is it for you?

I'm posting a response to this, mostly to see how similar my answer is to the ISTJ answers. (There are just so many more of you guys; I figure one meddling ESTJ won't mess with much!)

There are elements of traumatic memories that I remember with a great deal of accuracy. I always remember how I was feeling at the time, and how I responded emotionally both during and after the event. I often remember very detailed images that go with those feelings, usually of scenery and atmosphere. For example, I remember the span of about 15 seconds of a terrible trip I took to New York, as if I had recorded it; I remember the sounds, the lighting, the weather, and almost exactly how the room looked; I remember how I was feeling, the vibe my friend was giving off; I remember what I was doing, and the reason why I was doing it.

Those are the things that I remember accurately. On the other side of the spectrum: In the case of a traumatic memory involving another person doing something bad to me, I will almost never remember the exact words that they said to me, even if the traumatic phrase they uttered was short. I won't remember their face, or their clothes, or even their physical features. Maybe I'll remember the general gist, of how they looked or what they said. But I'll primarily remember the aftermath, and how I felt about it, and I'll remember the atmosphere, the scenery, and the mood very well.

I also tend to take conclusions from events that are very subjective and become more simplistic with time (i.e. the "gists" mentioned above).

Edit: I'm sure that the feeling elements of this post are Fi, but I think the remembering-environments-more-than-people thing is probably just me. I'm sure everyone's Si focuses on a different theme.

 

[/DG/]

What sort of hobbies and interests appeal to you? I remember reading that Si-doms really go for history, scrapbook, focus-on-the past sort of things.

I hate those sort of things, but my ISTJ dad loves history.

Also, do emotionally-charged events create more an imprint for you? I'm asking because I wonder about my own Si. If something is very upsetting or traumatic, I have marked trouble recalling what happened, how I felt...it's all incredibly vague. To the point where I sometimes forget the event until something triggers it. Even then it's hard to actually remember it without talking about it. How is it for you?

I find the bolded to be somewhat strange. If I remember correctly, it's been scientifically proven that events that stir up more emotions are easier to recall, especially if these are negative emotions. This has nothing to do with Si.

 

[The Iron Giant]

What sort of hobbies and interests appeal to you? I remember reading that Si-doms really go for history, scrapbook, focus-on-the past sort of things.

I'm not sure it's entirely accurate to say that Si is focused on the past as much as it is... perhaps "passionately informed" by the past. In a word, Si is romantic. So, for example, I have a collection of video games that is not based on the monetary value or even objective quality, but instead on the personal relevance they have to me. It's nostalgia-based. While nostalgia is not exclusively an Si-specific trait, it's an important one for me. I hunted down a couple of very common and not very valuable or entertaining games just because I loved them so much as a kid, and it feels good just to see the box sitting on the shelf. When I play these games, or even look at the boxes, I can pretty vividly recall the experiences of playing, and everything peripheral to them. For example, there's one game box on my shelf that reminds me of a single week-long relationship I had in high school, a failed attempt to turn my best friend into a girlfriend. I was playing that game at the time.

Songs can do the same thing.

If you check out Jung's synopsis of the Introverted Sensation Type, you'll see his description of what Si-doms are at their worst: completely disconnected from reality and seeing things only as they imagine them to be based on such romantic nostalgia. If I were like that, perhaps I would look at a game I loved as a kid and still think it was the best game ever made, even if playing it showed me otherwise. You can imagine the problems this kind of thing creates in human relationships. When my marriage was falling apart, I started intensely collecting video games from my childhood, many of which were garbage in terms of quality. I got little hits of pleasure just from having the boxes there. It was escapism. I was hiding from my wife emotionally.

Also, do emotionally-charged events create more an imprint for you? I'm asking because I wonder about my own Si. If something is very upsetting or traumatic, I have marked trouble recalling what happened, how I felt...it's all incredibly vague. To the point where I sometimes forget the event until something triggers it. Even then it's hard to actually remember it without talking about it. How is it for you?

For me, the more emotionally-charged the event, the more deep the imprint it makes. That doesn't mean the imprint is necessarily accurate to reality. I'll relive the experience again and again, reprocessing it and trying to distill lessons from it. In a number of cases, I've sought relief this way, like ways to allow myself to forgive myself for dumb shit I've done.

I think studies have shown that emotional memories are less accurate than more logical or detached ones. That's for all humans, not just Si users.

 

[Cygnus]

ISTJs...

What is your least favorite MBTI type?


Have you ever considered using your Si-Fi in an art field?