[ISTJ] An ISTJ Speaks Out On Barbers Versus Stylists

[PeaceBaby]

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"Today there are 220,000 barbers nationwide — up from the 1980s, but still a small fraction of all hair cutters — and almost half of them are women, says Charles Kirkpatrick of the National Association of Barber Boards." (as of 2004)

"Although licensing requirements vary from state to state, the general rule is barbers can cut and dye hair and shave faces but usually aren't licensed to do manicures. Cosmetologists can cut hair, do facials, manicures and pedicures, but aren't licensed to shave."

 

[Mal12345]

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"Today there are 220,000 barbers nationwide — up from the 1980s, but still a small fraction of all hair cutters — and almost half of them are women, says Charles Kirkpatrick of the National Association of Barber Boards." (as of 2004)

"Although licensing requirements vary from state to state, the general rule is barbers can cut and dye hair and shave faces but usually aren't licensed to do manicures. Cosmetologists can cut hair, do facials, manicures and pedicures, but aren't licensed to shave."

Thanks!

So what's a hair stylist compared to a barber?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I think of a barber as someone who predominantly concentrates on men's hair, shaves and men's grooming. Could be male or female.

 

[SD45T-2]

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"Today there are 220,000 barbers nationwide — up from the 1980s, but still a small fraction of all hair cutters — and almost half of them are women, says Charles Kirkpatrick of the National Association of Barber Boards." (as of 2004)

"Although licensing requirements vary from state to state, the general rule is barbers can cut and dye hair and shave faces but usually aren't licensed to do manicures. Cosmetologists can cut hair, do facials, manicures and pedicures, but aren't licensed to shave."

Dang, you beat me to it! Anyway, I was just going to point out that the difference between a barber and a stylist is credentials, not gender.

BTW, I go to a barber. He's been cutting hair for about 50 years.

 

[Thalassa]

They're not even that hot.

Are you a middle aged man?

 

[CzeCze]

Women cannot be barbers. They are called stylists. Only men can be barbers. Not women.

LOL!

My ENTP cousin when he was 7 insisted that girls and boys don't mix. Even when he drew pictures of people playing tennis it was boys on one side and girls on another.

Sooo...you have 1 vote from a 7 year old ENTP.

 

[Thalassa]

So?

I would tend to agree with him. Barbers give functional hair cuts, and also shaves, to men, and are typically men themselves.

Women tend to be stylists because they care more about actually having things like body, volume, style, etc. and do other women's hair, not just men's.

Who gives a crap if your ISTJ friend likes gender roles, anyhow? Some gender roles actually do serve a practical purpose in many cases, though some are constricting or harmful.

Whatever.

 

[Mal12345]

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"Today there are 220,000 barbers nationwide — up from the 1980s, but still a small fraction of all hair cutters — and almost half of them are women, says Charles Kirkpatrick of the National Association of Barber Boards." (as of 2004)

"Although licensing requirements vary from state to state, the general rule is barbers can cut and dye hair and shave faces but usually aren't licensed to do manicures. Cosmetologists can cut hair, do facials, manicures and pedicures, but aren't licensed to shave."

ISTJ responds:

"Therefore not barbers, stylists that go to beauty school."

See what I mean?

 

[Thalassa]

ISTJ responds:

"Therefore not barbers, stylists that go to beauty school."

See what I mean?

Are you intentionally ignoring details to be obtuse?

 

[Mal12345]

So?

I would tend to agree with him. Barbers give functional hair cuts, and also shaves, to men, and are typically men themselves.

Women tend to be stylists because they care more about actually having things like body, volume, style, etc. and do other women's hair, not just men's.

Who gives a crap if your ISTJ friend likes gender roles, anyhow? Some gender roles actually do serve a practical purpose in many cases, though some are constricting or harmful.

Whatever.

I just told him to focus on the job, not on the person doing the job.

But there's got to be a cleverer kind of comeback. Should we be like Saudi Arabia and ban women from cutting hair the way they ban women from driving?

 

[lunalum]

Hehe, I had guessed before that barbers only do cutting, shaving and maybe some basic styling, and stylists do pretty much anything with hair. Interesting thread.....

 

[Mal12345]

Hehe, I had guessed before that barbers only do cutting, shaving and maybe some basic styling, and stylists do pretty much anything with hair. Interesting thread.....

If a male (usually gay, I guess) goes to styling school, can he be a barber?

 

[Thalassa]

I just told him to focus on the job, not on the person doing the job.

But there's got to be a cleverer kind of comeback. Should we be like Saudi Arabia and ban women from cutting hair the way they ban women from driving?

But barbers, professionally, cut men's hair and shave men, and historically most barbers have been men because they exclusively cut the hair and shave other men. Stylists tend to focus on women's as well as men's hair, which is why they aren't licensed to give shaves and can give manicures or facials instead. Very few women actively choose to only cut the hair of men and shave men.

So anyway your friend still has a point, female barbers will be the exception not the rule because very few females who cut hair professionally will ONLY want to cut and shave men and not be licensed to do more feminine hairstyles.

And your Saudi Arabia example is preposterous and extreme, it's not even a relevant comparison.

 

[PeaceBaby]

ISTJ responds:

"Therefore not barbers, stylists that go to beauty school."

See what I mean?

OK, now I think he is being obstinate ... as quoted above, approximately HALF of all licensed barbers today are WOMEN.

To become a barber, they have to go to a licensed barber's school and then obtain a barber's license. Not beauty school and not a license as a cosmetologist - hairdressers in the US have to have a cosmetologist's license. They are two different things, two different credentials.

The requirements to get your barber's license are different for each state, so I can't list them all here.

 

[Mal12345]

But barbers, professionally, cut men's hair and shave men, and historically most barbers have been men because they exclusively cut the hair and shave other men. Stylists tend to focus on women's as well as men's hair, which is why they aren't licensed to give shaves and can give manicures or facials instead. Very few women actively choose to only cut the hair of men and shave men.

So anyway your friend still has a point, female barbers will be the exception not the rule because very few females who cut hair professionally will ONLY want to cut and shave men and not be licensed to do more feminine hairstyles.

And your Saudi Arabia example is preposterous and extreme, it's not even a relevant comparison.

I was trying to think of some better response via lateral thinking. Lateral thinking often doesn't seem relevant at first.

But the exception ("very few women") doesn't prove the rule. I know a woman who went to school to be a barber, and she opened a shop exclusively for men's haircuts. It even has the word "Men's" in the name of the business. Maybe I should send my ISTJ friend her way. She would probably nip his ear with the scissors for suggesting such a thing.

His argument however is more rigid than yours. He's not saying there are exceptions. He's simply saying "women can't be barbers, they are stylists."

 

[Mal12345]

OK, now I think he is being obstinate ... as quoted above, approximately HALF of all licensed barbers today are WOMEN.

To become a barber, they have to go to a licensed barber's school and then obtain a barber's license. Not beauty school and not a license as a cosmetologist - hairdressers in the US have to have a cosmetologist's license. They are two different things, two different credentials.

The requirements to get your barber's license are different for each state, so I can't list them all here.

Yes, he likes to play games. Intellectual head games. Sometimes they are based on outright lies.

 

[PeaceBaby]

He's simply saying "women can't be barbers, they are stylists."

If she has a barber's license, she's a barber.

Te FAIL on your friend's part.

 

[lunalum]

If a male (usually gay, I guess) goes to styling school, can he be a barber?

Based on PeaceBaby's link, I would think that he could only be a barber if he was also licensed as a barber, as a cosmetologist (stylist) isn't licensed to shave, and so wouldn't be hired as a barber. I'm willing to bet there are no special gay/straight exemptions either

 

[PeaceBaby]

If a male (usually gay, I guess) goes to styling school, can he be a barber?

Only if they meet the state requirements to be a barber. From what I understand you would have to take some additional courses, gain apprenticeship hours and pass a new state exam for your license. As mentioned they are distinct credentials.

Plus, I wouldn't assume that men who cut women's hair are gay. That's just a stereotype.

 

[Mal12345]

Only if they meet the state requirements to be a barber. From what I understand you would have to take some additional courses and pass a new state exam for your license.

Plus, I wouldn't assume that men who cut women's hair are gay. That's just a stereotype.

It's a Hollywood stereotype. But I don't see anybody bashing Hollywood liberals for the thousands of stereotypes they portray in films each year.

Way to go with the point about having a license. That seems to be the way to take this debate.