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[ISTJ] I moved in with my ISTJ.

Habba

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* My not noticing a goddamn cheerio on the floor. I'm not a slob, but this cheerio managed to fall down on the floor and roll under a corner without my having noticed it. I don't do a thorough wall-to-wall floor-to-ceiling 360-degree face-to-ground inspection 24/7, so come on.

Why the over-exaggeration? That's not a healthy attitude with ISTJs. Whatever it is, you seem to be full of passive aggressive emotions about this particular issue with him. You should first figure out why you yourself react so strongly on this, before you can complain about his issues.

* My friend coming over. The ISTJ hates him, because he talks very loudly and gets in his personal space (I think there's something wrong with him - he's a really nice ENFJ, but I think he has Asperger's Syndrome). I enjoy the ENFJ, but every time he comes, the ISTJ gets pissy. These are reasonable hours, too.

What's "his personal space"? Is it the whole apartment, or the immediate vicinity (touching, standing too close, etc)? The former is a problem on his part, but the latter is more about poor social skills on ENFJ's part.

ISTJs can be actually very reasonable, just as long as you can provide a rationale on your behalf. We just have tendency to worry and stress about things we can't predict or control.
 

mrcockburn

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I'm going to repeat myself. Turning it from just being their home into a shared one will take time. So it feels, to your istj, as an invasion of space.

Living with a partner is different from having a room mate. Having someone over they don't like is not a simple issue of 'well i pay rent' but involves your consideration for their feelings and respect for their wants and needs. This does go both ways naturally. So sit down your istj and talk to them about how important it is that said enfj comes over and see where it goes from there.

I don't think that's very fair. Especially since he was the one to keep asking and offering. Why am I paying half his rent if I have absolutely no say? Are you telling me that just because he was there first, I should accept his selfishness? He had his way 100% when he was paying 100% of his rent. And now he's not.

IMO, I'm being pretty fair about it. I don't let the ENFJ roam around the house, he stays in the kitchen, the living room, or the backyard. He cleans up after himself (at my insistence), and I shoo him out by 9pm if it's a weeknight. He's not there every day either. We see each other maybe once or twice a week - most of the time, we're meeting at HIS place or elsewhere.
 

mrcockburn

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I talked to my ISTJ by the way. He was surprised when I suggested that maybe I should move back out. He thinks everything's peachy keen, apparently. He said he nags everyone in his house, and that if I stop inviting "abnormal people" over, life would be all kittens and sunshine.

Not sure what to make of it. At least he was honest about being naggy, but that's going to annoy me, quickly.
 

1487610420

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Don't leave food in the microwave. Match those socks. Ban the dust bunnies. Attempt to have some kind of routine.

Haha, good luck.

:thumbup::yim_rolling_on_the_

EDIT:
I don't think that's very fair. Especially since he was the one to keep asking and offering. Why am I paying half his rent if I have absolutely no say? Are you telling me that just because he was there first, I should accept his selfishness? He had his way 100% when he was paying 100% of his rent. And now he's not.

IMO, I'm being pretty fair about it. I don't let the ENFJ roam around the house, he stays in the kitchen, the living room, or the backyard. He cleans up after himself (at my insistence), and I shoo him out by 9pm if it's a weeknight. He's not there every day either. We see each other maybe once or twice a week - most of the time, we're meeting at HIS place or elsewhere.

  • Fair in what regard? Are you sure it is a SO you have/want or a roommate?
  • Could it be you're just tagging along with your alleged SO out of convenience rather then commitment?
  • I have (no) doubts such dynamic is (not) fitting of a "let's move in together" scenario. :fpalm:
 

2XtremeENFP

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How do I get him to accept my ENFJ friend? (see 1st page).

They don't need to be best friends or anything, but I don't really enjoy the constant complaining.

It's not like the ISTJ can't just go into another room or just go take a hike for a little while, but he still complains. The ENFJ is messy (though I make him clean up)...but beyond that, it's ridiculous.

(He's stopping by to hang out around 7, and the ISTJ is already being a baby about it.)

EDIT: Also, the ENFJ *cooks* for me! And he'd cook for the ISTJ too, but he refuses due to his rather iffy food prep hygiene (I admit that, though I've never gotten sick from it, lol).

Is the ISTJ jealous of the ENFJ? What kind of past do you have?
 

Snow Turtle

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I don't think that's very fair. Especially since he was the one to keep asking and offering. Why am I paying half his rent if I have absolutely no say? Are you telling me that just because he was there first, I should accept his selfishness? He had his way 100% when he was paying 100% of his rent. And now he's not.

IMO, I'm being pretty fair about it. I don't let the ENFJ roam around the house, he stays in the kitchen, the living room, or the backyard. He cleans up after himself (at my insistence), and I shoo him out by 9pm if it's a weeknight. He's not there every day either. We see each other maybe once or twice a week - most of the time, we're meeting at HIS place or elsewhere.

I would suggest dropping the idea that "I pay 50% rent, therefore I'm entitled to 50% of the decision making within this household" since ultimately that sort of attitude will end up destroying your relationship. To take a more extreme example, it's like those couples who keep exact tabs on how much is being given, taken and shared exactly.

Rather than taking the view that "I pay 50% therefore X", I would suggest taking on the view "I have my own needs that need to be met in this relationship" where it becomes more an issue of compromise between both individuals than a defined line which is more similar to how flatmates would typically utilise and respond with. This sort of mentality is especially more important for those in those traditional relationships where one's partner earns more than the others and then starts feeling like they are entitled to more because of their earning-funding powers.

In this situation, it's clear that he'll need to compromise to cater to your needs (i.e. friendship) not because you pay 50% rent, but because you are his partner.
 

Giggly

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Hmmm, it doesn't sound like it's getting off to a good start. Shouldn't a couple just moving in together be lovey dovey at this point? What made you move in with him?
 

mrcockburn

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I would suggest dropping the idea that "I pay 50% rent, therefore I'm entitled to 50% of the decision making within this household" since ultimately that sort of attitude will end up destroying your relationship. To take a more extreme example, it's like those couples who keep exact tabs on how much is being given, taken and shared exactly.

Rather than taking the view that "I pay 50% therefore X", I would suggest taking on the view "I have my own needs that need to be met in this relationship" where it becomes more an issue of compromise between both individuals than a defined line which is more similar to how flatmates would typically utilise and respond with. This sort of mentality is especially more important for those in those traditional relationships where one's partner earns more than the others and then starts feeling like they are entitled to more because of their earning-funding powers.

In this situation, it's clear that he'll need to compromise to cater to your needs (i.e. friendship) not because you pay 50% rent, but because you are his partner.

Well, I'm not a doormat. Sorry. But there shouldn't have been anything that needed compromising to begin with, since I was completely within my rights to have a friend over for the early evening.

Anyway, we talked it over, and he said he just doesn't like my friend. I'm sorry, but isn't that his own problem? My friends are my friends, and I'm not changing that. Tough cookies.
 

mrcockburn

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Hmmm, it doesn't sound like it's getting off to a good start. Shouldn't a couple just moving in together be lovey dovey at this point? What made you move in with him?

He kept asking, and I figured "hey, why not". I could always move out if it wasn't working.

Believe it or not, 99% of the time, we're totally lovey dovey. Literally we've only bickered about his OCD tendencies and his hatred of my friend.

But I don't mention the mushy love part here in this thread, because there's no problem to solve. And I get kind of fiery at the specific 1% of things we've bickered about.
 

Snow Turtle

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Well, I'm not a doormat. Sorry. But there shouldn't have been anything that needed compromising to begin with, since I was completely within my rights to have a friend over for the early evening.

Anyway, we talked it over, and he said he just doesn't like my friend. I'm sorry, but isn't that his own problem? My friends are my friends, and I'm not changing that. Tough cookies.

I don't really disagree with the idea that it's OK for you to have your ENFJ friend over. That's an issue he'll have to get over.

I don't think it's a matter of being a doormat, it's just not coming from the perspective "I pay therefore" but instead "we're in a relationship therefore". The former sounds like something more found within a business setting, and I guess I just find it odd, but hey, if it works for you then I guess it's OK.
 

CzeCze

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You sound exhausting, but that's not really an anecdote.

:yim_rolling_on_the_:

That actually did me make LOL.

And [MENTION=9016]mrcockburn[/MENTION]...oh dear lord are you thinking you are EXFP now??

I lived with an ISTJ. A good friend. It was fucking awful. A very timid INFP was our 3rd roommate. Awful combination.

The reason it was awful was it came down to she did NOT want to live with other people and didn't know how to compromise or be realistic. She had unreasonable expectations, for instance, she decided how much rent we should pay regardless of the size of the rooms or the overall rent of the house. If she wasn't such a good friend to begin with things would have gotten very ugly much quicker. The INFP roommate added fuel because she never complained openly to the ISTJ and defacto went along with everything even when she was unhappy.

With all the roommate situations that have gone south, regardless of type, I would say communication was the biggest factor. You have to speak up as soon as something bothers you.

The positive with your ISTJ is *he* already does this. And at least in this thread he sounds reasonable? What you need to do is not take his complaints as orders or indicative of larger issues and just tell him on the spot things like "okay, I missed the Cheerio, is it really that big of a deal in the scheme of things? Do you think I'm a messy person? etc"

If consistent issues pop up, address them and compromise. For instance, if you feel he is constantly nagging you about kitchen chores, decide who will do what exactly and how often. Also, it may be because I'm older but some habits you just have to admit here and now are not going to change. Putting the cap back on toothpaste, hitting the snooze button repeatedly, etc. You can't change every habit sometimes to suit your partner, so it's better to air it all out and decide what you both can agree to live with. Basically pick and choose -together- your battles and their outcome.

The downfall of my INFP roommate is she was so timid she ended up being a doormat, which is unfortunate because I think she's a nice person. But she had this terrible habit of NEVER confronting something head on and the subsequent roommates took total advantage of her. Strangely, I do not think you will have this problem MrCockburn. :Thelook:

So basically in my experience I was too nice and not confrontational enough with my ISTJ roommate. At one point at a 'house meeting' I got so pissed off at what she had just said (another ridiculous demand) that I couldn't lift my head up to look at her because I knew I was about to go off.

For you, I'd encourage you to confront your ISTJ as soon as he says something that you take issue with or need clarification on. The demands and orders you interpret might just be him, you know, being him. Like he said he thinks thing are going well and just 'nags at people'. Each comment is not necessarily significant or has the same significance you think he intends.

Basically what you said about your ENFJ friend tell him that. Work it out. Can he live with the ENFJ coming over just 1x a week? Can you tell the ENFJ that your ISTJ is busy on that night so to basically not interact with him?
 

CzeCze

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Anyway, we talked it over, and he said he just doesn't like my friend. I'm sorry, but isn't that his own problem? My friends are my friends, and I'm not changing that. Tough cookies.

Wasn't this an issue with your ENTJ lothario whom you so cruelly spurned?

In this case though it seems it's just that specific ENFJ that your ISTJ takes issue with?

I don't think the issue is that you're friends with the ENFJ but that the ENFJ is coming over to the house. If you even agree that the ENFJ 'gets in his space' then you can see why the ISTJ doesn't want him over. I think how this gets resolved will also depend on the other compromises you make around the house and also how often and what kind of folks the ISTJ invites over.
 

Randomnity

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I don't think that's very fair. Especially since he was the one to keep asking and offering. Why am I paying half his rent if I have absolutely no say? Are you telling me that just because he was there first, I should accept his selfishness? He had his way 100% when he was paying 100% of his rent. And now he's not.

IMO, I'm being pretty fair about it. I don't let the ENFJ roam around the house, he stays in the kitchen, the living room, or the backyard. He cleans up after himself (at my insistence), and I shoo him out by 9pm if it's a weeknight. He's not there every day either. We see each other maybe once or twice a week - most of the time, we're meeting at HIS place or elsewhere.

wow, once or twice a week is a LOT to have any friend over for this introvert....if it's a friend that's annoying, especially one that is prone to invading space.....I'm amazed your istj hasn't gone postal by now, honestly.

if you want a perspective from the other side, when I lived with my ex he had a best friend who I could not stand....not a bad guy really, but just overwhelmingly obnoxious, immature, and incredibly loud about it. So maybe a similar situation. We didn't have that much friction about it though. What helped was:

-they usually went out instead of invading my space. He'd only be over maybe a couple times a month.
-I often got "warned" when he was to come over so I could make other plans
-they stayed out of my way, often in another room
-I usually left when he came over, tried to plan my errands around it (see: "warning")
-if I had to stay because it was some kind of social gathering, ALCOHOL
-I didn't feel the need to be social with him, I wasn't often rude but very distant and indifferent. I tried never to bitch about him but I think it was pretty clear from my avoidance that I didn't like him, lol.

It's probably hard for an extrovert to understand how intolerable some people can be, especially when YOU like hanging out with them....but seriously, some people can be nearly physically painful to be in the same room with. Especially for introverts. It's pretty inconsiderate to just expect him to "get over it".

edit: it's making my skin crawl just thinking about having loud, uninvited (by me), rude people invading my space multiple times a week. it's not really fair for him to forbid the guy from ever coming over, but surely there's some compromise. it sounds like you're focusing more on the "fairness" aspect which is more relevant in a roommate relationship than with an SO, who you presumably care about.
 

Giggly

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I'm curious if your ISTJ used to come over to your place often before you moved with him?

I'm kind of confused... is this ENFJ friend disrespectful to the ISTJ?
 

1487610420

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wow, once or twice a week is a LOT to have any friend over for this introvert....if it's a friend that's annoying, especially one that is prone to invading space.....I'm amazed your istj hasn't gone postal by now, honestly.

if you want a perspective from the other side, when I lived with my ex he had a best friend who I could not stand....not a bad guy really, but just overwhelmingly obnoxious, immature, and incredibly loud about it. So maybe a similar situation. We didn't have that much friction about it though. What helped was:

-they usually went out instead of invading my space. He'd only be over maybe a couple times a month.
-I often got "warned" when he was to come over so I could make other plans
-they stayed out of my way, often in another room
-I usually left when he came over, tried to plan my errands around it (see: "warning")
-if I had to stay because it was some kind of social gathering, ALCOHOL
-I didn't feel the need to be social with him, I wasn't often rude but very distant and indifferent. I tried never to bitch about him but I think it was pretty clear from my avoidance that I didn't like him, lol.

It's probably hard for an extrovert to understand how intolerable some people can be, especially when YOU like hanging out with them....but seriously, some people can be nearly physically painful to be in the same room with. Especially for introverts. It's pretty inconsiderate to just expect him to "get over it".

edit: it's making my skin crawl just thinking about having loud, uninvited (by me), rude people invading my space multiple times a week. it's not really fair for him to forbid the guy from ever coming over, but surely there's some compromise. it sounds like you're focusing more on the "fairness" aspect which is more relevant in a roommate relationship than with an SO, who you presumably care about.
This.
 

The Outsider

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I'm intrigued by the fact that you have a personal ENFJ that regularly comes over and cooks for you. Is that normal outside of my little world?
 
F

FigerPuppet

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If your SO hates your friend so much and feels that he infringes on his space, just meet up somewhere other than in the apartment. It's called compromise. You get to hang out with your friend, and at the same time not frustrate your boyfriend! Speaking of fairness: It's not fair of you to force the menace that is your friend on your boyfriend. You can be friends elsewhere than in the apartment you're supposed to share (you and your SO - not you, him and your entire social circle). It's not like he's telling you who you can and cannot be friends with.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

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He's probably very unhappy, and it's all because of you cockburn. It's all because of you.

Although, on the serious side. Which needs come first to you, your ENFJ's or SO's?
 

EJCC

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wow, once or twice a week is a LOT to have any friend over for this introvert....if it's a friend that's annoying, especially one that is prone to invading space.....I'm amazed your istj hasn't gone postal by now, honestly.

if you want a perspective from the other side, when I lived with my ex he had a best friend who I could not stand....not a bad guy really, but just overwhelmingly obnoxious, immature, and incredibly loud about it. So maybe a similar situation. We didn't have that much friction about it though. What helped was:

-they usually went out instead of invading my space. He'd only be over maybe a couple times a month.
-I often got "warned" when he was to come over so I could make other plans
-they stayed out of my way, often in another room
-I usually left when he came over, tried to plan my errands around it (see: "warning")
-if I had to stay because it was some kind of social gathering, ALCOHOL
-I didn't feel the need to be social with him, I wasn't often rude but very distant and indifferent. I tried never to bitch about him but I think it was pretty clear from my avoidance that I didn't like him, lol.

It's probably hard for an extrovert to understand how intolerable some people can be, especially when YOU like hanging out with them....but seriously, some people can be nearly physically painful to be in the same room with. Especially for introverts. It's pretty inconsiderate to just expect him to "get over it".

edit: it's making my skin crawl just thinking about having loud, uninvited (by me), rude people invading my space multiple times a week. it's not really fair for him to forbid the guy from ever coming over, but surely there's some compromise. it sounds like you're focusing more on the "fairness" aspect which is more relevant in a roommate relationship than with an SO, who you presumably care about.
^ This.
I would suggest dropping the idea that "I pay 50% rent, therefore I'm entitled to 50% of the decision making within this household" since ultimately that sort of attitude will end up destroying your relationship. To take a more extreme example, it's like those couples who keep exact tabs on how much is being given, taken and shared exactly.

Rather than taking the view that "I pay 50% therefore X", I would suggest taking on the view "I have my own needs that need to be met in this relationship" where it becomes more an issue of compromise between both individuals than a defined line which is more similar to how flatmates would typically utilise and respond with. This sort of mentality is especially more important for those in those traditional relationships where one's partner earns more than the others and then starts feeling like they are entitled to more because of their earning-funding powers.
^ And this too.
Edit: And everything [MENTION=1009]CzeCze[/MENTION] said! :nice:

Honestly, if you're going to keep that sort of confrontational attitude, I'm a little concerned as to how this'll turn out. Your ISTJ thinks everything is ok for a reason, i.e. if he's like me and like the other STJs I know, making necessary commitments, sacrifices, and allowances are second-nature and not terribly difficult. With healthy xSTJs, commitment is a way of life, in romantic relationships and all others. (And before you get nit-picky about my phrasing, I say "commitment" because that's, in my mind, the opposite of the idea that your living there is temporary, and the opposite of the idea that if things don't go your way, you're leaving. Like Kai said, those little arguments about the cereal on the floor will do your relationship in unless the attitude about it is chill.) EDIT: So what I mean is, he's doing fine (discounting the thing with your ENFJ friend, and regarding that I 100% agree with Randomnity) -- so I'm guessing that if you changed your attitude about his control-freakery (and also kept up a permanent, honest line of communication with him, to avoid resentment building up), all this tension would pretty much go away.

Also, any spouse of an xSTJ can attest that the nagging will never, ever go away, so you might as well get used to that.
 
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