[ISTJ] PLEASE HELP, does this ISTJ love me?

[2XtremeENFP]

Alright, to be honest, I am feeling very insecure right now but I do want your honest opinions and explanations for the following details.

I am really beginning to wonder how much my fiance truly loves me or truly understands love for that matter.

He is so freaking logical that it drives me insane. And it hurts me sometimes. I know that I am an F so I am usually able to know when my feelings are irrational and when I have the objective right to be upset about something.

He just says things sometimes, things where he explains his actions or his feelings towards me, and it doesn't sound like love. It doesn't sound like a want to be with me, or a need to be with me, but more of a choice, perhaps because there is no one else interested in him... that's horrible to say, but he is such a hermit, and hates any situation where he could go out and possibly meet a girl, that he just asks out his friends on dates. Before we started dating, he actually asked out like 5 of the girls in the mutual friend circle, and, basically, I was the only one to say yes.

We dated for about 3 years, broke up, and during that time, we would still "hang out" and "make out" but he would always say that because he is doing this, does not mean that he wants to get back together. During this time, I wanted to get back with him, and he was hesistant. He even told me that he was out of love with me. and that he would never love me again. Devasted, I didn't know if I believed him, so I felt like if I kept making out with him and spending time with him, he would learn to love me again. Ugh, what was a thinking. Did I trick him? Is he capable of knowing his true feelings?

We started dating again 2 years after we broke up. He never dated anyone between our break up. In fact, he never really dated anyone before me! We dated a few more years, he proposed around our 7 year mark of dating. Still, it rings in my head, "I'll never love you again" What changed his mind? I've asked, he can never answer it. ...Why?

Now the problem:
I know that I have low self esteem, and though this sounds hypocritical, I know that I can be very attractive, though, I'd have to take a lot of time to get to that point, lol. Anyways, we were talking about my insecurities one night and mentioned that I felt like he only asked me out because all other girls said no, and that perhaps he didn't even find me attractive at that time. He said "I found you more attractive as I got to know you". This made me feel like SHIT. He says he meant that I become more beautiful each day, yada yada yada. Whatever.

Then tonight, I mention that I am going out with the girls, and joking said that I was going to get dressed up when I went out to a bar with them. He flipped out and said that I only want other guys attention and his attention doesn't matter. I explained that it's a girl thing, and we need to feel attractive sometimes and we need to feel it in a different way. I would NEVER cheat, and he believes me. (I know my feelings here are irrational, but it's how I feel...it's how must girls feel. We just want to be attractive...) He is sad that he feels like his attention isn't good enough for me. But it is, it's just a girl thing (ugh, irrationalllll i knowwww)

We ended the conversation on a good note and we understood eachother. He then called me and said "Ya know, I think I kind of understand why I am upset a little with how you feel. When a couple goes out to a bar together, and the girl is dressed up, guys tend to want to 'show off' their girl. Like, 'hey look at me, look at the girl I am with. Isn't she attractive, look how lucky I am...' and with you.........." ( WOW HE IS ABOUT TO MAKE ME FEEL AMAZING)

"...........I don't feel that way. I don't have a need to show you off. I don't care. I'd rather people not look at you"

It broke my heart. I want him to feel like I am a prize. That I am something special, something he is lucky to have. Instead, I feel like he is just marrying me because he needs someone to birth his children, and something to have sex with (we are both waiting til marriage, so sometimes I am worried that he just wants to get married so he can finally have sex...IRRATIONAL? probably...but still probable.....)

Why doesn't he show LOVE. show DESIRE. show PASSION to be with me? I want him to WANT/NEED to be with me, not choose to. Ugh. Does this make sense?

Are ISTJs like this?!

 

[redacted]

Wow. There's a lot to deconstruct here.

First of all, I'd take MBTI right out of the equation at the beginning. It's just serving as a confounding factor. No, not all ISTJs are like this and not all ENFPs are like you.

Here's the real question -- it's not whether he loves you (which is important, yes) -- but whether YOU are satisfied by your relationship. It sounds like your self esteem problems are getting in the way of your analysis. Does he make you feel good? Can you see the couple growing in a mutually beneficial way? Do you love him or do you love an idealized version of him? Is there mutual understanding?

It sounds like you are really hurting. But maybe the best way to figure out what you want and need in a relationship is to work on yourself, not the relationship. It doesn't seem like you've ever really considered not being with him without being in a panic at the same time. Before you commit more of yourself to him, you're gonna need to get to a place where you can see what's happening from a rational perspective (don't worry, it's not an F thing or a woman thing, it's a personal growth thing).

I could probably say a lot more on the matter, but I'm a little pressed for time.

Love yourself.

 

[A window to the soul]

Are ISTJs like this?!

No.

I echo what Evan said. I'd add RUN!

 

[redacted]

No.

I echo what Evan said. I'd add RUN!

I was trying not to be so harsh...

Also, it's hard to know what his motivations are, since we're hearing about them 3rd-hand. I would guess some of it is worse than it sounds, some better. Hard to judge these things.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

No.

I echo what Evan said. I'd add RUN!

But why run? Does he seem like a bad guy? What are your impressions of him?

He is a good guy. He is the most kind, honest, trustworthy man I have ever met. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't think with his heart EVER. It's like he doesn't even realize what he says can be taken a different way.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Here's the real question -- it's not whether he loves you (which is important, yes) -- but whether YOU are satisfied by your relationship. It sounds like your self esteem problems are getting in the way of your analysis. Does he make you feel good? Can you see the couple growing in a mutually beneficial way? Do you love him or do you love an idealized version of him? Is there mutual understanding?

It sounds like you are really hurting. But maybe the best way to figure out what you want and need in a relationship is to work on yourself, not the relationship. It doesn't seem like you've ever really considered not being with him without being in a panic at the same time. Before you commit more of yourself to him, you're gonna need to get to a place where you can see what's happening from a rational perspective (don't worry, it's not an F thing or a woman thing, it's a personal growth thing).

I could probably say a lot more on the matter, but I'm a little pressed for time.

Love yourself.

This is so hard to say. How can one tell if they love the idealized version? I mean, I idealize everything. But I know him. He is static. I know him through and through, and I do love him. I just dont feel loved by him all the time.

I can honestly say that I really TRULY felt loved was when he proposed. I felt like he really wanted it. But it was that week that I felt his heart. Ya know, like really feel it. I even told him that, I was like, I actually feel like you love me! he didn't like that too much. He is sad that I feel this way.

When we broke up for those couple years, the first year, we still hung out in a group, but never one on one. And I was seeing another boy and always thinking of my ISTJ and missing him. I know what I need in a relationship, and it;s the grounded that he provides. we are both Strong Christians and I love that too. He is the better part of me and I know that I need him to better myself. But I feel like he doesnt need me like I need him, ya know?

 

[redacted]

But why run? Does he seem like a bad guy? What are your impressions of him?

He is a good guy. He is the most kind, honest, trustworthy man I have ever met. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't think with his heart EVER. It's like he doesn't even realize what he says can be taken a different way.

I would probably also say "RUN!", but not necessarily because of him -- it has more to do with the way you described your relationship. If he were such a good guy and all that, why are you so insecure about his feelings for you? There's a reason for that, and even if it isn't "his fault", it's still a signifier that something is very wrong. It takes two to make a relationship work.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

I would probably also say "RUN!", but not necessarily because of him -- it has more to do with the way you described your relationship. If he were such a good guy and all that, why are you so insecure about his feelings for you? There's a reason for that, and even if it isn't "his fault", it's still a signifier that something is very wrong. It takes two to make a relationship work.

I'm insecure because he doesn't make me feel secure, I mean, he freaking told me that he'd never love me again. And with him being such an honest, non-drama, kind of person, I just want to know what changed his mind, and he can't answer it.

 

[redacted]

I know what I need in a relationship, and it;s the grounded that he provides.

Really though? You don't sound satisfied. I'm basing my questioning on that.

we are both Strong Christians and I love that too. He is the better part of me and I know that I need him to better myself. But I feel like he doesnt need me like I need him, ya know?

Why do you know that you need him to better yourself? That's what most people think when they're in really long relationships, whether it's true or not. How do you know you don't just want to avoid dealing with the discomfort of working on yourself by yourself?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it's worth questioning. If you explore the question and find that you were right, then you strengthen a good relationship -- if you explore the question and find some deeper problems, you're doing exploring that needs to be done anyway.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Why do you know that you need him to better yourself? That's what most people think when they're in really long relationships, whether it's true or not. How do you know you don't just want to avoid dealing with the discomfort of working on yourself by yourself?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it's worth questioning. If you explore the question and find that you were right, then you strengthen a good relationship -- if you explore the question and find some deeper problems, you're doing exploring that needs to be done anyway.

I know I need him because I've tried life without him and it was hard. There isnt anyone like him, haha, it's really true. It's so hard to explain, but I know i'd NEVER find a guy like him again.

And all of this about working on myself -- I mean, what am I going to fix? The fact that I'm insecure? I'm used to other guys pursuing me, and telling me how awesome my personality is and that they find me attractive. He isn't so forward about it, he isn't quick to say it. It's like I have to work hard to impress him, where other guys are drawn to me...

 

[redacted]

I'm insecure because he doesn't make me feel secure

This kind of reasoning suggests a much deeper issue. No one besides you is responsible for your emotional state. If you aren't secure with yourself, that's a personal issue you should work on -- it is your responsibility to set up your environment in such a way that you're able to pursue this goal. If you choose to engage with people that don't make you feel better about yourself, you are actively perpetuating the problem.

, I mean, he freaking told me that he'd never love me again. And with him being such an honest, non-drama, kind of person, I just want to know what changed his mind, and he can't answer it.

Honestly, that's a somewhat nitpicky point to make, and yet it's the basis of your entire argument. It seems like you are insecure for deeper reasons and are clinging to this notion as something you can point to to rationalize that insecurity.

I don't have the information to conclude whether or not he truly wants to be with you, and there's really no way you could give me enough information. But I do have enough information to say that this is most likely not the main problem here.

Listen, either he thinks "I have made it very clear that I am devoted to her and I love her" and he's frustrated he has to keep explaining himself because he thinks you won't hear him anyway, or he actually doesn't feel that way. You gotta figure out which one of those options is true. If it's the first thing, you're gonna have to let go of your emotions for long enough to rationally discuss the issue. If it's the second thing, you gotta get out of there.

 

[A window to the soul]

But why run? Does he seem like a bad guy? What are your impressions of him?

He is a good guy. He is the most kind, honest, trustworthy man I have ever met. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't think with his heart EVER. It's like he doesn't even realize what he says can be taken a different way.

If you love him, take the good with the bad and accept him as he is. You can calmly share your feelings with him, but the bottom line is what Evan so eloquently stated and that is you have to work on yourself and love yourself. When your boyfriend says something to you that can be interpreted multiple ways, why choose the negative interpretation? Be confident in yourself and your relationship and trust him as you say you do and choose the positive interpretation.

 

[redacted]

I know I need him because I've tried life without him and it was hard. There isnt anyone like him, haha, it's really true. It's so hard to explain, but I know i'd NEVER find a guy like him again.

I don't know if I can get through to you here...

First of all, you having "tried life without him" isn't a valid sample from which to draw conclusions. And it doesn't sound like you've tried life without him at all...you've been holding out for him the whole time you were apart. Trying life without him would mean getting to a point where you don't NEED him. Then you let life happen for a while and decide whether he would make it worse or better. If the entire time you weren't with him, you were just sad about how he wasn't there, well, of course it's better with him there -- you never gave yourself a chance to feel otherwise.

Secondly, just because there aren't people out there exactly like this guy doesn't mean that guys exactly like this are right for you. Again, until you're single and comfortable, you won't be able to tell what it is you actually need in a relationship. Without the position of power of being happy with yourself, you run the risk of seeking relationships to feel good about yourself in the short term instead of seeking relationships that will allow for your growth in the long term.

And all of this about working on myself -- I mean, what am I going to fix? The fact that I'm insecure? I'm used to other guys pursuing me, and telling me how awesome my personality is and that they find me attractive. He isn't so forward about it, he isn't quick to say it. It's like I have to work hard to impress him, where other guys are drawn to me...

You shouldn't judge yourself by how many guys are attracted to you. You have to judge yourself by your own standards. Do you like yourself? Are you pursuing personal growth? Are you comfortable? Are you anxious? It's almost impossible to answer these questions when your self-worth is predicated on other people's opinions of you. It seems like you need more personal emotional space to even realize that there's a process here you should embark upon.

 

[Giggly]

I'd say no. Im sure hes nice but he doesn't sound like the guy for you.

 

[highlander]

We ended the conversation on a good note and we understood eachother. He then called me and said "Ya know, I think I kind of understand why I am upset a little with how you feel. When a couple goes out to a bar together, and the girl is dressed up, guys tend to want to 'show off' their girl. Like, 'hey look at me, look at the girl I am with. Isn't she attractive, look how lucky I am...' and with you.........." ( WOW HE IS ABOUT TO MAKE ME FEEL AMAZING)

"...........I don't feel that way. I don't have a need to show you off. I don't care. I'd rather people not look at you"

It broke my heart. I want him to feel like I am a prize. That I am something special, something he is lucky to have. Instead, I feel like he is just marrying me because he needs someone to birth his children, and something to have sex with (we are both waiting til marriage, so sometimes I am worried that he just wants to get married so he can finally have sex...IRRATIONAL? probably...but still probable.....)

As an aside, it might not be what you wanted to hear but there is really too much wrong about what the guy said. It sounds he might get jealous of other guys looking at you. Might be lacking in confidence himself.

 

[Giggly]

Honestly this sounds like the typical pattern of an emotional abuser.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Go see a pre-marriage counselor with him, and/or see someone for yourself.

Asking an Internet forum to help solve your relationship problems, is a bit like asking an Internet forum to help determine what that weird noise coming from your car engine is all about.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Go see a pre-marriage counselor with him, and/or see someone for yourself.

Asking an Internet forum to help solve your relationship problems, is a bit like asking an Internet forum to help determine what that weird noise coming from your car engine is all about.

We are in premartial counseling now. It helps a lot. Im sure we will end up talking aboout this

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Honestly this sounds like the typical pattern of an emotional abuser.

How?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

As an aside, it might not be what you wanted to hear but there is really too much wrong about what the guy said. It sounds he might get jealous of other guys looking at you. Might be lacking in confidence himself.

Actually, me and him just had a long, long talk about this situation. He explained to me what he meant -- being the fact that he doesnt want guys looking at me and only looking at me as a body and not for who i am as a person. He said that he doesnt want guys looking at me that way, ya know. he said she of course he thinks im hot but he doesnt want other guys drooling over me. And that he finds it much more rewarding if a guy knows me as person and he can brag/show off my values, my sense of humor, my care for others. He'd rather guys want a girl like me for who i am rather than what I look like. he said he thinks im worth bragging about when it comes to how i treat others, how i view the world, my job, things of that nature. He wants people to see me for who i am not how I look.

It made me feel so much better.

He explained to me all of his thought process when we broke up and got back together. how he feels like he could never have a connection with anyone else like he has with me. How he enjoys our differences because we always work through them and become stronger people.

He admitted that he didnt get a chance to explain all of what he was thinking at the time and knows that he needs to explain himself more so that I dont just to conclusions.

He made me feel loved.