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  1. #41
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    5w6 sp/so



    Sorry to hear about rocky times. Sounds mostly like a communication problem, as people have said. That's going to demand effort from both of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Well, I don't know, the freaking WORLD is surrounded with how to talk to girls. Guys are hammered with it non-stop, Sitcoms. Books. Magazines. Friends. Interactions. Discussions. Casual conversation.

    I know not to tell a dude he has a small peepee. Guys know not to call a woman fat.
    It's not as simple as it sounds. Not for some people, anyway (such as myself). Personally, there's also my mind's way of thinking, "That stuff on TV is what I should do if I want any ordinary girl to listen. But she's not just some random girl, she's special. Different from the rest. So a special girl deserves a special approach. But what?" Maybe more normal people don't think that, but I think that. It's at least as possible as the line of thinking you're saying here. Doing what works for "your average girl" would just show you that he thinks "you're an average girl".

    As for how strongly we feel love/feelings, the unromantic answer ( ) is "How can anyone know unless they've been different people at different times in their life? How do you know what another person's feelings feel like?" The closest you can come is how they express them, seeing it externally.'s a mystery.

    However, my opinion is that love is still love, and the feeling itself can be felt in all its intense glory by any type of personality. Its obviousness on the outside is what changes. I've said it plenty of times before, and I don't know whether people will believe me, but personally my answer is "Yes! ISTJs can feel very strong emotions." Most of the time it's true that my emotions stagnate around a center line, not up or down too much in either direction. But for all those times I've felt that weird, bewildering, exciting feeling of infatuation or heartbreak or like I'd have to lie down for a while to let built-up nervousness and anxiousness for a girl subside, or every night I couldn't sleep from an adrenaline-like rush when discovering a mutual crush, or every night I couldn't sleep because I worried that I totally destroyed the way she feels about me--That those were all "inadequate emotions" hurts quite a bit, especially if it were coming from my girlfriend.

    (Feel like a vulnerable idiot for typing the above. Even though it's true.)

    And it could be "just me," but I hope you understand. I think it's important to keep talking to him about how you guys feel about every little thing, and think about the way you see those things/actions/words. Try to understand through his language (and hopefully he will through yours, too).
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #42
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    594 sx/sp
    LII Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    I know that I have low self esteem, and though this sounds hypocritical, I know that I can be very attractive, though, I'd have to take a lot of time to get to that point, lol. Anyways, we were talking about my insecurities one night and mentioned that I felt like he only asked me out because all other girls said no, and that perhaps he didn't even find me attractive at that time. He said "I found you more attractive as I got to know you". This made me feel like SHIT. He says he meant that I become more beautiful each day, yada yada yada. Whatever.

    Then tonight, I mention that I am going out with the girls, and joking said that I was going to get dressed up when I went out to a bar with them. He flipped out and said that I only want other guys attention and his attention doesn't matter. I explained that it's a girl thing, and we need to feel attractive sometimes and we need to feel it in a different way. I would NEVER cheat, and he believes me. (I know my feelings here are irrational, but it's how I's how must girls feel. We just want to be attractive...) He is sad that he feels like his attention isn't good enough for me. But it is, it's just a girl thing (ugh, irrationalllll i knowwww)

    We ended the conversation on a good note and we understood eachother. He then called me and said "Ya know, I think I kind of understand why I am upset a little with how you feel. When a couple goes out to a bar together, and the girl is dressed up, guys tend to want to 'show off' their girl. Like, 'hey look at me, look at the girl I am with. Isn't she attractive, look how lucky I am...' and with you.........." ( WOW HE IS ABOUT TO MAKE ME FEEL AMAZING)

    "...........I don't feel that way. I don't have a need to show you off. I don't care. I'd rather people not look at you"

    It broke my heart. I want him to feel like I am a prize. That I am something special, something he is lucky to have. Instead, I feel like he is just marrying me because he needs someone to birth his children, and something to have sex with (we are both waiting til marriage, so sometimes I am worried that he just wants to get married so he can finally have sex...IRRATIONAL? probably...but still probable.....)
    Gawd. He's really got that IxTx thing down, doesn't he?

    Been there, done that, in the sense that I remember saying very stupid things like that when I was younger and feeling proud of myself because I wasn't susceptible to the same crazy emotional cycles others were. When I said such things, I meant them, and they were meant to be positive. But it's a very detached T way to approach a relationship, and I realized as I got older that (1) many people would feel more distant from me, not closer to me, when I approached things that way, and that (2) I wasn't happy either being so detached in my key relationships. What made a lot of sense with non-people issues created undesirable distance in people issues.

    Anyway, my point is that he likely IS being sincere and means what he says, and he thinks he's doing something good. However, it's clear it isn't working well for you; you need more connection and interest invested, you want to feel part of a unit, you want him to actively want you and vice versa, and his detachment is actually coming across as indifference.

    Which means to me that your needs in a relationship are not compatible. You are not going to be happy if he doesn't change; but you can't expect him to change if you tie the knot, and you will be the one who needs to change.

    Look at it another way: Could you stay with him even if you marry, if another guy comes along who actually seems to want to be with you and experiences some jealousy because he feels like you belong to him and he to you? I think we're talking about "desire" here, and a raw type of desire, not some sort of maniacal possessiveness that tries to control nor this preprocessed, very detached and intellectualized philosophy of two people in a relationship who are not really a pair. Just desire. That's the point I've gotten to -- I want to be desired in a relationship. Not possessed by someone else, nor held at a distance; just desired. I want to know that he wants me, and I want to want him. This is the basic foundational level of desire you are not getting from him at this point, and it's likely that you might not ever get it... or that it will be a long hard slog to get it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    7W6 sp/sx


    I have been in a (sort of) similar situation. Similar as in i was with an ISTJ for nearly four years (with an 8 month break).

    Lots of the things you said remind me of my own situation. The hermit tendancies, the inability to compliment or make you feel special in any way.
    Yet surprisingly this person did love me...albeit in a very obsessive (i was his possession) sort of way.
    Crux of it is... does he do it for you?
    If not really, really think about weather you want to spend the rest of your life with him.
    Oh i was engaged to my ISTJ too... freakin lucky escape...srsly!
    After we broke up (and still) he is at the very least internet stalking me, harassing my family, has hacked several accounts and i'm pretty sure has followed me once or twice.
    You don't want this...but then...he is a different person... am projecting a little (appologies!)
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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