[ISTJ] PLEASE HELP, does this ISTJ love me?

[Giggly]

How?

Nevermind. I'm glad you two talked. Keep up the talking and counseling.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

I have actually been with an ISTJ and I know what you're talking about. From your frustrations that he doesn't show his love (which he probably does, but in a different way. do you know there are 5 languages of love? many ISTJs express their love by doing small things for you) to you feeling like you need him when you want to break up. I don't have any answers for you, but I do understand very well what your confusion is, so it might be indicative of general ENFP-ISTJ relationships. I also read the comments of other people and I think they are somewhat missing the point....I think you can't really understand it unless you experience it yourself, and I just wanted to let you know that I do understand you.

 

[Giggly]

I understand it too. I have experienced the same thing before. I'm not going to say it's type related because I don't think it is. It's more individual for both you and him. Sometimes people are just not so compatible and if you're both dedicated to staying together then you both need to work a little harder at things.

 

[Randomnity]

the thing about the bar is a little worrying, but for me wouldn't be a dealbreaker on its own. if that's the only thing wrong in an otherwise great relationship, all the "omgz run" talk is excessive imo. If it's a symptom of an underlying attitude, that's completely different. Have you tried telling him that you don't feel secure about your looks/you want compliments/etc along those lines? He doesn't sound like a bad guy from your description - sounds more like you guys don't understand what the other person is saying.

 

[21%]

He sounds like a 'virtuous' religious man. When I think of him that way I think I understand where he's coming from. The 'being together by choice' is a good thing, although it might sound a bit unromantic, ultimately it's healthy. But I think you need to work on your self esteem issue a bit if you're to have a happy marriage with this man.

I agree that you both need to learn how to communicate better. ISTJs are normally not verbally expressive, but they have very strong feelings inside -- feelings they sometimes don't know how to deal with. Maybe he expresses his love differently. Once you know more about each other's needs you'll both be much happier.

Anyway, good luck

 

[IZthe411]

He sounds like he's kind of dense when it comes to expressing himself in relation to you. Everything he says that can be interpreted as 'bad' is countered by an action from him that is 'good'. Like someone said he's not the most eloquent with words but he sounds like he loves you and cares for you.

I've seen your chattering teeth for a while now on this board, talking about this dude. It sounds like you're in a valley right now with your emotions. Don't make any rash decisions based off this feedback. Why not re-read some of your past posts and see if you see that same pattern?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

I have actually been with an ISTJ and I know what you're talking about. From your frustrations that he doesn't show his love (which he probably does, but in a different way. do you know there are 5 languages of love? many ISTJs express their love by doing small things for you) to you feeling like you need him when you want to break up. I don't have any answers for you, but I do understand very well what your confusion is, so it might be indicative of general ENFP-ISTJ relationships. I also read the comments of other people and I think they are somewhat missing the point....I think you can't really understand it unless you experience it yourself, and I just wanted to let you know that I do understand you.

Thank you, I appreciate what message. We actually just read the love languages book, i lead with words/quality time his is service/words/quality time. I know that i can sometimes miss his ways of showing me love. It's just mind blowing to think that a guy doesnt know the right kinds of things to say to girls. lol. You would think if words is a big one for him, he would pay more attention to the things he says

 

[2XtremeENFP]

He sounds like a 'virtuous' religious man. When I think of him that way I think I understand where he's coming from. The 'being together by choice' is a good thing, although it might sound a bit unromantic, ultimately it's healthy. But I think you need to work on your self esteem issue a bit if you're to have a happy marriage with this man.

I agree that you both need to learn how to communicate better. ISTJs are normally not verbally expressive, but they have very strong feelings inside -- feelings they sometimes don't know how to deal with. Maybe he expresses his love differently. Once you know more about each other's needs you'll both be much happier.

Anyway, good luck

Thank you. I think you are right. The being together by choice thing still makes me feel uncomfortable, but i understand it. I have to say out loud to him, knowing how ridiculous it is, that I sometimes need that magical, idealistic things in relationships. If it's the one night where we stare at the stars, him writing a song for me, us crying our eyes out together but growing stronger, sometimes I need that WOW moment. And Just hearing that love can be a choice takes away from the idealistic love that i know i sometimes long for-which can be unfair to any non NF to have to deal with, i am aware lol. He said that he loves me and he doesnt want to live a life without me as a friend or a lover therefore he chooses to be with me and that a long way down the road of marriage there will be times where we will have to chose to love and not walk away if we have problems, ya know?

But do they though? Do they have strong feelings? At least for other humans? lol I mean, I've seen him get worked out and get emotional, but it wasnt about me, or about anyone but rather about moral choices made by others, work, or stress.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

He sounds like he's kind of dense when it comes to expressing himself in relation to you. Everything he says that can be interpreted as 'bad' is countered by an action from him that is 'good'. Like someone said he's not the most eloquent with words but he sounds like he loves you and cares for you.

I've seen your chattering teeth for a while now on this board, talking about this dude. It sounds like you're in a valley right now with your emotions. Don't make any rash decisions based off this feedback. Why not re-read some of your past posts and see if you see that same pattern?

I do remember you helping me in the past.

I do not want to break off our relationship, I just want to be able to sort what I am thinking and feeling so I can tell him rationally what I want/need and what he can do or what I can do to help us. I love this board so much because I am able to just..sort out everything. everyone here helps me look at different points of views and motives and it helps so much. I also want to make sure that he understands what he wants too and not just loving me because i'm here and i'm available.

It's like, if his Love Language is Words, shouldn't he be well at speaking them??

 

[ceecee]

Thank you, I appreciate what message. We actually just read the love languages book, i lead with words/quality time his is service/words/quality time. I know that i can sometimes miss his ways of showing me love. It's just mind blowing to think that a guy doesnt know the right kinds of things to say to girls. lol. You would think if words is a big one for him, he would pay more attention to the things he says

I'm going to get all up in your shit for the bolded. Why would you even think because someone is male they automatically know what to say to a female? Do you always know what to say 100% of the time or do you think it's all a joke which is why you end everything with that fucking lol and that makes it ok? I think you are projecting what you think he should say then freaking out when he doesn't. It doesn't work that way. I hope that the premarital consulting is with a therapist and not someone unqualified such as a priest or pastor (unless they are licensed to provide therapy as well). You very well may not be comparable and hopefully if you are working with a professional, they'll tell you that.

 

[ceecee]

It's like, if his Love Language is Words, shouldn't he be well at speaking them??

No. They are what he needs from you.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

No. They are what he needs from you.

Not necessarily, it usually can be the way that they show love as well.... but I understand in his case, it may not be this way.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

I'm going to get all up in your shit for the bolded. Why would you even think because someone is male they automatically know what to say to a female? Do you always know what to say 100% of the time or do you think it's all a joke which is why you end everything with that fucking lol and that makes it ok? I think you are projecting what you think he should say then freaking out when he doesn't. It doesn't work that way. I hope that the premarital consulting is with a therapist and not someone unqualified such as a priest or pastor (unless they are licensed to provide therapy as well). You very well may not be comparable and hopefully if you are working with a professional, they'll tell you that.

Well, I don't know, the freaking WORLD is surrounded with how to talk to girls. Guys are hammered with it non-stop, Sitcoms. Books. Magazines. Friends. Interactions. Discussions. Casual conversation.

I know not to tell a dude he has a small peepee. Guys know not to call a woman fat.

Him and I had just had a long conversation about insecurity, you would think that he would say things to make me feel secure....is all I am saying.

But I suppose I shouldn't assume things. He explained himself better to me, and I understand his point of view now.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Thank you. I think you are right. The being together by choice thing still makes me feel uncomfortable, but i understand it. I have to say out loud to him, knowing how ridiculous it is, that I sometimes need that magical, idealistic things in relationships. If it's the one night where we stare at the stars, him writing a song for me, us crying our eyes out together but growing stronger, sometimes I need that WOW moment. And Just hearing that love can be a choice takes away from the idealistic love that i know i sometimes long for-which can be unfair to any non NF to have to deal with, i am aware lol. He said that he loves me and he doesnt want to live a life without me as a friend or a lover therefore he chooses to be with me and that a long way down the road of marriage there will be times where we will have to chose to love and not walk away if we have problems, ya know?

But do they though? Do they have strong feelings? At least for other humans? lol I mean, I've seen him get worked out and get emotional, but it wasnt about me, or about anyone but rather about moral choices made by others, work, or stress.

ITJ (not S, but close enough) perspective:

I don't know about him, but I view love as a conscious choice. The fact that he chooses to love you despite thinking he doesn't need you, to me shows just how strong his love is. He's committed to you, regardless of whatever happens, any difficulties you may have, etc. You are his companion and he won't let you leave his side. To me, that says more than "I'm with you because I need you." It's an active choice of will, rather than something a person was simply forced into.

Maybe it's a difference between Te and Fi, I don't know.

 

[IZthe411]

I do remember you helping me in the past.

I do not want to break off our relationship, I just want to be able to sort what I am thinking and feeling so I can tell him rationally what I want/need and what he can do or what I can do to help us. I love this board so much because I am able to just..sort out everything. everyone here helps me look at different points of views and motives and it helps so much. I also want to make sure that he understands what he wants too and not just loving me because i'm here and i'm available.

It's like, if his Love Language is Words, shouldn't he be well at speaking them??

Love language for most ISTJs are acts of service. They suck at words. He probably has a million reasons that he loves you, but he can't find the words to say them.

 

[IZthe411]

Well, I don't know, the freaking WORLD is surrounded with how to talk to girls. Guys are hammered with it non-stop, Sitcoms. Books. Magazines. Friends. Interactions. Discussions. Casual conversation.

I know not to tell a dude he has a small peepee. Guys know not to call a woman fat.

Him and I had just had a long conversation about insecurity, you would think that he would say things to make me feel secure....is all I am saying.

But I suppose I shouldn't assume things. He explained himself better to me, and I understand his point of view now.

This is the same guy you say doesn't go out and hasn't dated anybody?!?!? Do your eally think he's reading a book on how to pick up chicks or watching a rom-com (I just wanted to use that)? Dude is in his own world doing his own thing, oblivious to all of that.

 

[21%]

Thank you. I think you are right. The being together by choice thing still makes me feel uncomfortable, but i understand it. I have to say out loud to him, knowing how ridiculous it is, that I sometimes need that magical, idealistic things in relationships. If it's the one night where we stare at the stars, him writing a song for me, us crying our eyes out together but growing stronger, sometimes I need that WOW moment. And Just hearing that love can be a choice takes away from the idealistic love that i know i sometimes long for-which can be unfair to any non NF to have to deal with, i am aware lol. He said that he loves me and he doesnt want to live a life without me as a friend or a lover therefore he chooses to be with me and that a long way down the road of marriage there will be times where we will have to chose to love and not walk away if we have problems, ya know?

ITJ (not S, but close enough) perspective:

I don't know about him, but I view love as a conscious choice. The fact that he chooses to love you despite thinking he doesn't need you, to me shows just how strong his love is. He's committed to you, regardless of whatever happens, any difficulties you may have, etc. You are his companion and he won't let you leave his side. To me, that says more than "I'm with you because I need you." It's an active choice of will, rather than something a person was simply forced into.

^^ This answers the question very well. They say if you cannot be happy alone, you cannot be happy together. Only when both partners are secure can they truly bring out the best in each other and work together as a team. "I need you" implies that "you make me happy" and focuses on what "you can do for me". "I choose to be with you" is weightier than that. It implies what "I will do for you" too. I know it's a bit tactless to say things like "If I'm not with you, who am I ever going to be with? There aren't other girls." but ISTJs are practical and he is pointing out the facts. He is not aware that it hurts you. He might as well have said "You're the only one in my life and will always be", which basically means the same but sounds a lot better.

Most thinkers think neediness is unattractive, that rational choice is superior to emotional need. I think you need to understand that his internal thought process is totally different than yours. So more communication would definitely help.

But do they though? Do they have strong feelings? At least for other humans? lol I mean, I've seen him get worked out and get emotional, but it wasnt about me, or about anyone but rather about moral choices made by others, work, or stress.

He will probably never get openly emotional with you. He's just not comfortable in doing so. I've got an ISTJ friend who hung on to her irrational unrequited love for years without ever telling anyone. She was also very bad at expressing it towards the person she loved. So, yes, it's there. It's beneath the surface. You'll catch glimpses of it, like the tip of an iceberg, but you can't expect him to pour out romantic words and make you swoon all the time. It's just not his normal mode of operation.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

This is the same guy you say doesn't go out and hasn't dated anybody?!?!? Do your eally think he's reading a book on how to pick up chicks or watching a rom-com (I just wanted to use that)? Dude is in his own world doing his own thing, oblivious to all of that.

Touché.

 

[SubtleFighter]

I don't know much about ISTJs, but here's my general advice for you:

Do NOT get married to him while you feel like he might not really love you and you're feeling doubts about your relationship.

I don't care if you have the date set, everyone's marked their calendars, the reception hall's paid for, and the caterer's non-refundable. Just imagine yourself walking down the aisle looking at him and wondering in that moment "does he really love me?" That would be horrible. And even more horrible would be if you married him, maybe even started a family with him, and then 3 years afterwards realize that you're really unhappy with him and have been for awhile.

Whether or not he really does love you (and he might, I don't know), if you feel like he might not, or you feel like there's something wrong in your relationship, don't go into that huge step while feeling that way. If it turns out that he really is the right guy for you, then he still will be in a year or two if it takes that long for you to feel more secure in your relationship. That scenario would be better than marrying him and then realizing it wasn't right.

 

[redacted]

Him and I had just had a long conversation about insecurity, you would think that he would say things to make me feel secure....is all I am saying.

It seems like you keep missing that YOU are responsible for your feelings. If you continue not getting what you need from this guy, you're an active participant. It's 50% your fault.

There's the action side of the equation, and there's the expectation side. Your expectations honestly seem at least as "off" as his actions.

You seem to be biased towards interpreting his actions and words incorrectly -- when he says something you focus on how he said the wrong thing instead of trying to figure out what he actually meant. You're really gonna have to look at your side of things here instead of blaming him for everything -- it's just not gonna work that way.