[ESFJ] Does everyone REALLY have an ESFJ mom?

[EJCC]

So, you don't think there are many SJ's around?

Plus, I can provide more compelling evidence, if you so wish.

My point in this thread is to only say that if approximately 50% of the world is SJ, probability would suggest one of your parents is an SJ.

Ergo, why would it be necessarily strange to have an SJ parent?

For the record, I do agree that ESTJ's and ESFJ's get branded with inaccurate stereotypes ALL THE TIME! You know what those stereotypes are so it's not necessary for me to reiterate.

It's only because there are so many more iNtuitors than Sensors in my life. I know a grand total of one or two ESTJs personally, maybe three ESFJs? But SO many more NFs and NTs!! And I realize that there must be something about my personal experience that allows for that, but I just have a really hard time with sketchy statistics that contradict my experience. The flaws I pointed out -- i.e. that I'm not sure how representative workplace statistics from 1998 can be -- still stand objectively, even if my motivation isn't all that objective.

 

[Giggly]

There is one member on this forum who recently was determinedly typing herself as INFJ while everyone told her she was ESTP. Odd, that. I still think she may have been having fun watching us all trying to convince her that, if nothing else, the last type she's likely to be is INFJ.

Maybe she was. We don't know now, do we? I still don't know if she's serious or not

In the case of the original premise of this thread - of course in most cases we don't know if it's just the child tying the mom as ESFJ, or if others have also typed her as such, or if any of the other people involved have any interest in MBTI...etc.

To me it seems like a which came first, the chicken or the egg? type of deal. Are moms really ESFJs or do children type their mom as ESFJ because she acts like a mom?

But particularly when ESFJ and ESTJ are the two types most often singled out for hatred and rampant stereotyping...it does all make me wonder.

It's funny, I wonder why I should care so much about this. To be very honest, I have had a few unfortunate experiences of various kinds with ESFJs and ESTJs IRL (though I think I've also had good experiences - I definitely have lots of SJ friends). But all the generalising that tends to go on annoys me.

Yes, it's quite suspicious.

It reminds me of how I feel when I hear Europeans bashing Americans, which happens a great deal over here. I end up defending the Americans, a lot. And I'm Canadian.

Hahaha maybe because it seems overdone to you. What do they say when you do that? Do they ever change their mind?

 

[Eilonwy]

Off-topic, but still kind of related: I once had my co-workers take Keirsey's test and three of them came up as ESFJ. They were all EXTREMELY different and I never would have guessed them as the same type. After thinking about their results, I could see why they typed that way, but I never would have guessed. So, type is only a tool, not an absolute definition of a person. Preferences, percentages of preferences, and perception--more art than science.

 

[OrangeAppled]

As for the percentage of SJs & Ss out there in general, I don't think the statistics are that off. The tests & profiles seem N-biased actually, and they end to catch the interest of Ns more. This should slant statistics in favor of MORE Ns, not less, but yet, it doesn't. Even in these communities, more people seem to mistype N and then later change to S (once they get past unfair stereotypes) than vice versa.

I think one issue is people do often type others in relation to themselves. If I see myself as a grounded, structured SJ type, then I might view every who is not as grounded & structured as me as daydreamy, silly NFP or something. If I see myself as a visionary and offbeat NP type, then anyone who is less so can't possibly be an NP like me. It's an easy pitfall, and why I think many people feel they have not encountered their own type much IRL (no one is as X as they are, so they can't be the same type).

 

[jixmixfix]

Americans in particular?

Seriously, I know this is turning into a bit of a hangup for me...but it just seems like I've read a truly disproportionate number of descriptions of ESFJ moms (ie. when people list the types of family members, etc). Dads, brothers and sisters can be pretty much any type at all. Moms are 99% ESFJ!

I have serious doubts about this. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of ESFJ moms (quite a few people seem to have ISFJs too) but...I just can't believe there are that many. Other types of women reproduce. What also seems noteworthy is that a majority of people who talk about their relationship with their "ESFJ mom" will describe her as annoying, interfering, etc. Almost as though if you have a mom you don't get along with, she has to be ESFJ.

It just seems very much like a variant on the "all annoying/domineering bosses, dads and just people are ESTJs" trope. I think a lot of (particularly American, of a certain generation) women have been socialized to act very ESFJ - or else that's the default for "annoying mom" type. I remember reading in an Enneagram book that for women over 40, test results of 2 should be taken with a grain of salt because there will probably be a disproportionate and inaccurate number of these results. Very similar to the ESFJ thing, I think.

Thoughts? Or am I just a crank? For the record, my mom is probably an INTJ. She is definitely IxxJ and she is almost certainly not a Feeler.

My mom is actually ESFJ.

 

[Viridian]

I also agree with whoever said it's important to see the person beyond his/her role as a parent.

 

[skylights]

i have noticed this too... without trying to encourage bias, i feel like this seems to be a rather teenage view of a parent - being meddling and overinterested, picky, emotional, and restrictive. i would have said this of both my parents when i was in high school, and they're certainly not both ESFJs.

anyway, my mother is truly ESFJ, i believe. she is outgoing (doesn't prefer to sit and self-reflect), detail-oriented and present-focused (doesn't prefer the abstract or big picture), interpersonally gifted (doesn't prefer hard logic), and decisive (doesn't prefer to leave things to chance). these are characteristics she has had all her life, not ones she developed to fill her "mom role". she is a teacher and handles our practical household matters - bills, groceries, vacation planning. dad is an INTP - her exact opposite in many ways. for the record, ESFJ mom and i get along fabulously.

i also think my maternal grandma is ISFJ, but i suspect paternal grandma of ISFPery.

 

[mrcockburn]

My mother was an ESFP. Grandmother = INFJ. Maybe, or it might just seem that way because she had schizophrenia.

 

[Elfa]

My mom is ISFP. Her mother I'm not sure, she may be ISFP too - but she talks a LOT, so maybe ESFP?? I'm really not sure of her type, but certainly she's not a J...

My father's mother I think was ISFJ.

I won't be an ESFJ mother.

 

[Aquarelle]

My mom tested as ESFJ, and I can't think of what else she would be. Poooosibly ESFP. But for the record, she's not annoying at all. I couldn't as for a better mommy!

 

[Coriolis]

I usually identify my mother as ESFJ, and have wondered at times whether this is accurate. She was definitely an E: always the life of the party, and very outgoing. I used to think ESFP due to her fun-loving nature, until I understood function theory better. Her primary function was clearly Fe. She was driven by what others thought of her, and always seeking external approval. An ESFP would seem driven more by her internal desires. I suppose she could be ENFJ, but she was always very rooted in the present moment, liked her environment to be orderly, attractive, and "just-so", and enjoyed the tasks related to making it that way. She was an impeccable hostess who loved providing for her family and entertaining her friends.

So, I think she was the real deal. I also think she never completely understood me, and was probably not as intelligent in the traditional sense, but we always had a good relationship. I appreciated in her the many qualities that I lack, and the extent to which I have even a hint of some of them (e.g. social skills) is due to her deliberate influence.

 

[Tiltyred]

I usually identify my mother as ESFJ, and have wondered at times whether this is accurate. She was definitely an E: always the life of the party, and very outgoing. I used to think ESFP due to her fun-loving nature, until I understood function theory better. Her primary function was clearly Fe. She was driven by what others thought of her, and always seeking external approval. An ESFP would seem driven more by her internal desires. I suppose she could be ENFJ, but she was always very rooted in the present moment, liked her environment to be orderly, attractive, and "just-so", and enjoyed the tasks related to making it that way. She was an impeccable hostess who loved providing for her family and entertaining her friends.

So, I think she was the real deal. I also think she never completely understood me, and was probably not as intelligent in the traditional sense, but we always had a good relationship. I appreciated in her the many qualities that I lack, and the extent to which I have even a hint of some of them (e.g. social skills) is due to her deliberate influence.

This is my mother, too, and there's no question in my mind about her type, because she is so true to it. She just could not fathom any part of me, and still can't, and vice/versa. It's a very difficult relationship.

 

[SilkRoad]

It's so bizarre for me to think of having a "life of the party, 24/7 hostess, driven by what others think of her" mom. I love my mom to bits but she is nothing remotely like any of that. I have wondered sometimes how differently I might have turned out if she were that "traditional" sort of mom. I think I did sometimes wish that my mom was a bit more like other moms.

Although I'm more like my dad overall, one of the things that my mom and I have definitely bonded over is that we've both wished at least some of the time that we were "more like other people." It would be...easier. She has also told me a few times that she wishes she had my people skills.

We have similar intellectual interests too and we can talk about books, etc for hours. We tend to not really see people in the same way though. She doesn't have my degree of (over-)investment in others (with the exception of my dad, my brother and me), or my tolerance of their foibles. I think in some ways she and I definitely get along better now that we live thousands of miles apart, though I miss her very much.

 

[Nicodemus]

I have one. She taught me manners.

 

[Patches]

I am very certain that my mother is ENTJ. So no. Not everyone does.

 

[Aquarelle]

It's so bizarre for me to think of having a "life of the party, 24/7 hostess, driven by what others think of her" mom. I love my mom to bits but she is nothing remotely like any of that.

My mom's not like that at all, either, but she did test as ESFJ. Those are just typical characteristics of the type, not all ESFJs display those characteristics.

 

[SilkRoad]

I think the moral of the story is: particularly if you feel like you're very different from your mom, she might well be an ESFJ, but then again, she might well be another type.

Moms and kids are different - they play different roles. The people who have pointed out that we tend to type others in relation to ourselves make a very good point.

 

[gromit]

My mum is a ISFJ. She is a great mum and is supportive and nurturing toward her children, not pushy or judgmental. She intelligent and well read and I often have philosophical discussions with her - so I would go easy on the stereotyping of XSFJs as difficult mothers or anti-intellectual types. As for my grandmothers, I believe they are both ISTJs (although its possible either could be extroverted). They're a lot more judgmental, pedantic and neither are very skilled in the tact department - they may not be terribly warm and fuzzy but I do love them nonetheless.

I think my grandma may have been ISTJ as well! It took me awhile to be able to appreciate her. If only I had gotten the chance to know her more while I was older…

 

[Saslou]

It took months for me to get my mum to take the test and she came out ESFJ.

My mother only wanted one child, it was my father (first marriage) who pushed for a second. Then she went on to have a third child with her second husband. She never wanted a huge family.

Yes, we have had our run-ins over the years but overall she is an amazing mum. She does have a heart of gold and i'm grateful to have her around. When the shit hits the fan, she'll be there to wipe my tears and give me a cuddle even at the age of 32. Yes we all have our faults and she isn't perfect but neither am i and i accept them in her as she does me.

I think my step mother is leaning towards IxTp.

 

[Tiltyred]

It's so bizarre for me to think of having a "life of the party, 24/7 hostess, driven by what others think of her" mom.

My mother is in her 70's now, a breast cancer survivor, and just recently diagnosed with cancer of the liver. I was so upset by the news (which came right on the heels of a death in the family Aug. 4th) that it started to affect my work and I had to let it be known what my circumstances were because I was having trouble concentrating. In response, the people I work for gave me the money to travel to see her and wanted me to go that day -- but I knew I should call first -- and sure enough ... she answered the phone so groggy from chemo she couldn't get her head around what day it was, but she knew for sure that she did not want me to come, because she had a party planned for Tuesday, and she had to get enough rest so she could give the party. I begged. I said I would stay in my room with my laptop and nobody would even know I was there; that I would cook and clean and help with the party, etc. No, mom says, she'd really rather I didn't. I said what about after that? Well, then it's Halloween ...

It's always about the party.

My regularly scheduled time with her is Christmas. She doesn't like it when you do things off schedule. Even if she's perhaps only got months to live.