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[ESFJ] Does everyone REALLY have an ESFJ mom?

SilkRoad

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So, you don't think there are many SJ's around?

Plus, I can provide more compelling evidence, if you so wish.

My point in this thread is to only say that if approximately 50% of the world is SJ, probability would suggest one of your parents is an SJ.

Ergo, why would it be necessarily strange to have an SJ parent?

For the record, I do agree that ESTJ's and ESFJ's get branded with inaccurate stereotypes ALL THE TIME! You know what those stereotypes are so it's not necessary for me to reiterate.

There are loads of SJs around, but I would question whether it's to that level. I've seen statistics which distribute the types much more evenly, for instance (with considerably more S than N types, but otherwise fairly evenly.)

I've lived in a city for several years where I have met disproportionate numbers of people acting like (stereotypical) ESFPs and possibly ESTPs. I very much doubt that all of them are. Many, sure, but I am certain that many other types are represented. What they do all seem to have in common is a desperate desire to fit into the group. Some of them act quite differently when away from that group. It has to do with the environment they've put themselves in and where they are in life. Same sort of thing, I think.

I'm not saying it's strange to have an SJ parent, by the way. I probably have at least one, unless my dad actually is an INFJ. I do find it strange though that so many people claim to have xSFJ moms when the types of other family members seem quite widely distributed. There aren't even as many ESTJ dads as I would have thought. Plenty of people claim to have F dads, for instance.
 

gromit

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When I was a teen I think I kinda wished I had an SJ parent actually... or maybe just a tiny bit more structure or guidance.
 

mujigay

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This stereotyping of ESxJs gets really annoying. If there's anything that someone doesn't like about society/family/their hometown, it becomes "OMG. @#!*% ESxJs not understanding my delicate emotions/intellectual superiority/empathy/martyr complex!

I wonder if perhaps this can't be blamed on those really condescending type descriptions of ESxJs on most websites. They're all written to sound like a fifties housewife or a zombie of suburbia.

That being said, my mother is an INFJ. Hoo boy, is she a trip sometimes.
 

FDG

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my mother is definitely I

N-S kinda even, but surely IxFJ
 

tinker683

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My Mom I know is an IxFJ. I'm leaning more toward ISFJ rather than INFJ because she's practical and doesn't seem particularly interested in the "deeper" issues and when she does discuss them, you can tell she hasn't quite invested a lot of thought into it. This doesn't seem to bother my ENFP father, who wubbes her to death :)

That, and I'm practically like a male version of her.
 

SilkRoad

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So many people seem to say something about their mom being uninterested in the deeper things, thus she's an S, sort of thing. Again in the societal impact area, I wonder if greater educational opportunities and just greater freedom for women have made a difference. I suspect you could end up with NT women forced to act like SJs, sort of thing, because their only real opportunities were ever to become housewives - I mean, surely the "frustrated/desperate housewife" stereotype isn't all made up of SJs? If they were SJs, perhaps they would be less frustrated...? (probably subscribing to stereotypes myself here, sorry)

My mom went to university and got her Masters but then has been a housewife since she got married, though she does journalism on the side (more for her own satisfaction than for needing the income, as my dad supported us.) She never had to have a permanent or full time job. It just worked out that way for various reasons. She's very much her own person and very intellectually active - reads voraciously, etc - but though she's certainly fulfilled everything that a "housewife" is supposed to do, I know one of her problems has been boredom, too. She's a good cook, but one of the reasons that she didn't pass on a passion for cooking for me is that she doesn't have a passion for it...

How would you even "know" that you had deep intellectual longings if you had no opportunity for them and grew up in an environment where there was little or no stimulation for it? A wider question, I guess.
 

OrangeAppled

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When I first got into MBTI, I looked at INFJ first for my mom, but it didn't fit. Then I looked at ISFJ, and it was perfect for her. Once I learned about cognitive processes, imagining her as anything but Si-dom was silly; and it's not because she is closed to new stuff - she isn't at all. She also is not judgey or unable to discuss deeper things. I have a lot of respect for my mom's intelligence. FYI, she tests as ESFJ, but she will also say she is an introvert & I think she is Si-dom over Fe.

ESFJ just suits my grandma also. The functions suit her, the profiles suit her.... I'm not going to type them as something else just because other people commonly type their moms/grandmas that way. What's interesting is, my grandma is very prototypical "grandma", but I don't see many other people's grandmas that way; many are surprisingly disinterested in their grandkids. So she's way more "grandma" in a good way than most people are in reality.

For the record, I know lots of moms & grandmas I would not type as xSFJ (or even SJ) at all... I think my step-mom is an ESFP, for example.
My aunts, who both are moms, are INFJ & ENFP.
 

tinker683

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So many people seem to say something about their mom being uninterested in the deeper things, thus she's an S, sort of thing. Again in the societal impact area, I wonder if greater educational opportunities and just greater freedom for women have made a difference. I suspect you could end up with NT women forced to act like SJs, sort of thing, because their own real opportunities were ever to become housewives - I mean, surely the "frustrated/desperate housewife" stereotype isn't all made up of SJs? If they were SJs, perhaps they would be less frustrated...? (probably subscribing to stereotypes myself here, sorry)

My mom went to university and got her Masters but then has been a housewife since she got married, though she does journalism on the side (more for her own satisfaction than for needing the income, as my dad supported us.) It just worked out that way for various reasons. She's very much her own person and very intellectually active - reads voraciously, etc - but though she's certainly fulfilled everything that a "housewife" is supposed to do, I know one of her problems has been boredom, too. She's a good cook, but one of the reasons that she didn't pass on a passion for cooking for me is that she doesn't have a passion for it...

How would you even "know" that you had deep intellectual longings if you had no opportunity for them and grew up in an environment where there was little or no stimulation for it? A wider question, I guess.

She's had plenty of opportunities and it just doesn't seem to appeal to her. Her primary interests seem to be romance and her job (sound familiar? ;) )

That, and her and I communicate with each other extremely well. It's like we're on the same wavelength. So she certainly could be an INFJ, but I'm simply more inclined toward ISFJ.
 

Randomnity

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I suspect some of it is "I'm not ANYTHING like my mom!!!!111" from INTPs, which are disproportionately drawn to forums like this, it seems.

My mom is so far from being ESFJ, haha. She's either INFP with mostly stereotypical S interests (suspect this) or a head-in-the-clouds ISFP with inattentive-ADD or similar that makes her seem N. Definitely no Fe, haha.
 

SilkRoad

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I suspect some of it is "I'm not ANYTHING like my mom!!!!111" from INTPs, which are disproportionately drawn to forums like this, it seems.

I think INTPs and INTJs both.

I was going through the sticky thread on family types in the main MBTI forum. I was reading the posts before looking to see what type the forum member had posted as their own. There were an enormous number who said "I just can't talk to my mom...she's so boring and nosy...and she's ESFJ" who when I checked were either INTP or INTJ. In fact, I think most of the people who claimed ESFJ moms and made comments like that were INTx.
 

Viridian

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I think I've got an ISFP mom and an ESFJ dad.

Dad's not stereotypically SJ-ish for the most part, but he displays some of the... drawbacks of Fe dominance. :wink: He's also got that "everybody's dad" vibe to him, always helping friends out and stuff.

Mom's not a homebound person, although she is both very caring and in a profession usually associated with Fe (psychiatry). She also draws us out of our shells as much as she can without being too intrusive. :D
 
R

Riva

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My mom is an ESFP.
She is more active, athletic (atleast used to be), extroverted than I am.
She is also quite fun.
Always upbeat, happy and active.
A bit careless and clumsy too :).

If I am ever forcefully magically changed to any other type and had a last wish, I would probably ask to be changed in to an ESFP.
 

kelric

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I think this is a combination of a few things:

  1. There are a lot of SFJ's out there, including Moms (see Peacebaby's stats)
  2. There is a definite cultural bias in favor of exhibiting SJ-type characteristics in both parental roles and corporate roles
  3. When forced to adhere to a set of behaviors (ie, at work, or when responsible for a child), those actions can rub off on people, however unnatural they may be.
  4. People are, in general, not very good at "typing" others, particularly when they see them primarily through a role (parent, co-worker, etc).

Emphasis on the last point... how many of these "my Mom's an ESFJ" claimants know that because their Mom told them so, and how many are just projecting their own interpretations of their Mom onto that judgement? My guess is that a lot more kids see their Moms as xSFJ's than Moms see themselves as xSFJ's (but there *are* a lot of xSFJ Moms, and non-Moms, out there).

As for me, my Mom's very much an ISFJ (by her own reckoning, and I certainly agree with her). Grandmom however, is absolutely not... I don't know her opinion on the matter, but I'd say xNTJ of one stripe or another.
 

Rasofy

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I think INTPs and INTJs both.

I was going through the sticky thread on family types in the main MBTI forum. I was reading the posts before looking to see what type the forum member had posted as their own. There were an enormous number who said "I just can't talk to my mom...she's so boring and nosy...and she's ESFJ" who when I checked were either INTP or INTJ. In fact, I think most of the people who claimed ESFJ moms and made comments like that were INTx.
INFJ with ESFJ mom: ''She is a great person, we get along fine. <Insert something you envy about her>''
INFP with ESFJ mom: ''She means well but I sometimes feel misunderstood''
INTX with ESFJ mom: ''She is boring!!! And nosy!''
Thing is, the many INFX's ESFJ moms may be in fact boring and nosy, and more often than not the INTX's ESFJ moms are in fact great people, but it usually goes unmentioned. This could be atributed to T and F differences in perception, Enneagram 4 and 5 differences, general T/F incompatibilities...(ok, that's enough!):thinking:
 

Southern Kross

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My mum is a ISFJ. She is a great mum and is supportive and nurturing toward her children, not pushy or judgmental. She intelligent and well read and I often have philosophical discussions with her - so I would go easy on the stereotyping of XSFJs as difficult mothers or anti-intellectual types. As for my grandmothers, I believe they are both ISTJs (although its possible either could be extroverted). They're a lot more judgmental, pedantic and neither are very skilled in the tact department - they may not be terribly warm and fuzzy but I do love them nonetheless.
 

Giggly

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My guess is that a lot more kids see their Moms as xSFJ's than Moms see themselves as xSFJ's (but there *are* a lot of xSFJ Moms, and non-Moms, out there).

Is ones type based on how one sees themselves or how others see them? THAT is the question. :D
 

SilkRoad

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Is ones type based on how one sees themselves or how others see them? THAT is the question. :D

If MBTI is real, then the reality of your type should be independent of how you perceive it, or how others perceive it.

Then again, if you think you're an INFJ and everyone else thinks you're an ESTP, you may want to double-check, I guess.
 

Giggly

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If MBTI is real, then the reality of your type should be independent of how you perceive it, or how others perceive it.

This is why I don't really trust the tests because the answers will be based on someone's perception. Have you ever met someone who acts exactly opposite of how they think they are?

Then again, if you think you're an INFJ and everyone else thinks you're an ESTP, you may want to double-check, I guess.

I've not gotten very many people to take the test but the few who I have (including myself) I typed in my mind before the test was done and I haven't been off the mark yet. For instance, I think I'm ISFx, sometimes ISFP, sometimes ISFJ and the only time I took the official test I got ISFP. Unofficially I've gotten ESFP, ISFP, and ISFJ. Unfortunately no one I know well in real life knows anything about MBTI to tell me what they think my type is.
 

SilkRoad

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This is why I don't really trust the tests because the answers will be based on someone's perception. Have you ever met someone who acts exactly opposite of how they think they are?

There is one member on this forum who recently was determinedly typing herself as INFJ while everyone told her she was ESTP. Odd, that. I still think she may have been having fun watching us all trying to convince her that, if nothing else, the last type she's likely to be is INFJ.

In the case of the original premise of this thread - of course in most cases we don't know if it's just the child tying the mom as ESFJ, or if others have also typed her as such, or if any of the other people involved have any interest in MBTI...etc.

But particularly when ESFJ and ESTJ are the two types most often singled out for hatred and rampant stereotyping...it does all make me wonder.

It's funny, I wonder why I should care so much about this. To be very honest, I have had a few unfortunate experiences of various kinds with ESFJs and ESTJs IRL (though I think I've also had good experiences - I definitely have lots of SJ friends). But all the generalising that tends to go on annoys me.

It reminds me of how I feel when I hear Europeans bashing Americans, which happens a great deal over here. I end up defending the Americans, a lot. And I'm Canadian. :laugh:
 
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