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[ESFJ] Does everyone REALLY have an ESFJ mom?

Quinlan

Intriguing....
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Maybe SFJs are more likely to have multiple kids, also given they're supposed to be the nuturing type anyway they're probably more likely to want big families/lot's of kids.

T women probably don't have so many kids for logical reasons (finances etc.).

NF women probably don't have so many kids for idealogical reasons (save the planet etc.).
 

citizen cane

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No, but I do. I'm pretty sure my dad is am ISFJ.
 

Giggly

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Moms do usually have some ESFJ-like tendencies...

Exactly. Becoming a mom can MAKE you have those tendencies. 80+% of all women have children. And for that matter having a steady corporate job will make you have SJ tendencies too. I think it would be more accurate to observe and type people outside of and/or before they were immersed into those circumstances.
 

SilkRoad

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How could they possibly know that? Most people have never even taken an MBTI test.

I bet an NT came up with those statistics. :laugh:

Seriously, sorry PB... thank you for looking those up :) I could believe that there is a majority of SJs. But this seems disproportionate. I mean, the number of SJs is just so much vaster than any of the others.

I think there are a lot of people who look more like a type they're not because they need to or want to fit in, one way or another, or conform to societal expectations. My mom doesn't give a damn about societal expectations, which is one way I know she's not an SJ... ;)
 

SilkRoad

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T women probably don't have so many kids for logical reasons (finances etc.).

What??? Sorry, what does that mean? T women are poor?
 

Giggly

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I just changed my type to ENFP... look how easy that was!!! :happy2:
 

Quinlan

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What??? Sorry, what does that mean? T women are poor?

T women might think ahead more about the financial realities of raising lots of kids, whereas an ESFJ might be more focused on how having kids make her feel at the time.
 

SilkRoad

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I just don't buy the "only SFJ women want kids and there are so many of them" thing.

I'm an INFJ (about 99% sure of that.) If anything else I'm most likely to be ISFJ. I am definitely a Feeler - I've never once tested as a Thinker in the last six years. And I have no desire for kids. I mean, really none. I'd love to get married to the right guy, but I've never wanted kids. It has nothing to do with wanting to save the planet or thinking I can't afford them. I'm just not interested enough in children to take the risk of bringing them up in a scary world and maybe not even getting along well enough with them.

Maybe MBTI really does just help to perpetuate stereotypes and not much else.
 

Quinlan

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I'm just not interested enough in children to take the risk of bringing them up in a scary world and maybe not even getting along well enough with them.

Maybe ESFJs are less likely to see the world as scary? as Fe doms I'd guess it's the inner world that scares them the most. They're usually confident in their ability to build relationships and might not even be thinking ahead that far anyway.

Sensor + Fe = focussed on concrete people, and it doesn't get more concrete than changing nappies and cleaning up baby sick.
 

PeaceBaby

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I could believe that there is a majority of SJs. But this seems disproportionate. I mean, the number of SJs is just so much vaster than any of the others.

That is the whole point though - think about the world we live in. Is it not an SJ world in many ways? Planning? Structure? Routines? Orderliness? Meetings? Does not this reality reflect in our lives?

Here's a link with a bunch of stats:

http://mrob.com/pub/MBTI-16.html
 

prplchknz

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I think that it's equal across all types if we're counting the oh shit the condom broke but i don't want an abortion pregancies or oh shit i didn't take my BC
 

EJCC

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Americans in particular? ;)

Seriously, I know this is turning into a bit of a hangup for me...but it just seems like I've read a truly disproportionate number of descriptions of ESFJ moms (ie. when people list the types of family members, etc). Dads, brothers and sisters can be pretty much any type at all. Moms are 99% ESFJ!

I have serious doubts about this. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of ESFJ moms (quite a few people seem to have ISFJs too) but...I just can't believe there are that many. Other types of women reproduce. What also seems noteworthy is that a majority of people who talk about their relationship with their "ESFJ mom" will describe her as annoying, interfering, etc. Almost as though if you have a mom you don't get along with, she has to be ESFJ.

It just seems very much like a variant on the "all annoying/domineering bosses, dads and just people are ESTJs" trope. I think a lot of (particularly American, of a certain generation) women have been socialized to act very ESFJ - or else that's the default for "annoying mom" type. I remember reading in an Enneagram book that for women over 40, test results of 2 should be taken with a grain of salt because there will probably be a disproportionate and inaccurate number of these results. Very similar to the ESFJ thing, I think.

Thoughts? Or am I just a crank? ;) For the record, my mom is probably an INTJ. She is definitely IxxJ and she is almost certainly not a Feeler.
SO GLAD you made this thread. :yes: The bolded made me happy :wub: All my thoughts on that trope apply to this one too.

Bossiness does not mean Te, and niceness does not mean Fe.
I have to say, the 19-year-old INTJ saying "my ESFJ mom will never understand my superior intellect, as she's so hidebound and such a nosy nag" is pretty much one of the ultimate MBTI cliches at this point. :dry:
:laugh:
Here you are!

Derived from the stats of the 1998 edition of MBTI Manual:

SP Artisans (Sanguine, Aesthetic, Probing): 27.0%
SJ Guardians (Melancholic, Economic, Scheduling): 46.4%
NF Idealists (Choleric, Religious, Friendly): 16.5%
NT Rationals (Phlegmatic, Theoretic, Tough-minded): 10.4%
Those results may say more about which types are likely to have a job where people administer MBTI test, than about the population in general... which would explain the HUGE SJ plurality. :dry: Freaking bad MBTI stats grumble grumble...

EDIT: Also, I feel like since society (imho) is becoming less SJ every day, and the generation of people raised to seem SJ is getting older, I think a post-1998 statistic of younger people would yield pretty different results.

And a statistic of my university would yield VERY different results. :laugh: Where did all the Perceivers go?!?
T women might think ahead more about the financial realities of raising lots of kids, whereas an ESFJ might be more focused on how having kids make her feel at the time.
This makes sense, in terms of numbers of kids. It's exactly why I feel like people shouldn't have eight kids when they're poor -- because how are you going to pay for all that food, let alone possible college education? But the argument doesn't apply for having kids in general. Whether you decide to be a parent or not has nothing to do with MBTI.


Also, since everyone else is sharing: My mom is an INFJ -- but she has very, very well-developed Si, probably because of her upbringing (the deep south, in the 60's). She's told me before that she relates to 75% of the ISFJ description, but 100% of the INFJ description. :laugh:
 

Eilonwy

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Maybe SFJs are more likely to have multiple kids, also given they're supposed to be the nuturing type anyway they're probably more likely to want big families/lot's of kids.

T women probably don't have so many kids for logical reasons (finances etc.).

NF women probably don't have so many kids for idealogical reasons (save the planet etc.).

I disagree. I don't think type has as much to do with how many kids you have as culture does. Up until very recently, women were expected to get married and have kids. Men decided if they had enough kids. My mom did NOT want as many kids as she had, but she is Catholic and birth control was forbidden and obeying your husband was a priority. Even when I was growing up and birth control for women was starting to be widely available, women were expected to get married and have kids or something was wrong with you. This is a cultural thing.
 

prplchknz

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I disagree. I don't think type has as much to do with how many kids you have as culture does. Up until very recently, women were expected to get married and have kids. Men decided if they had enough kids. My mom did NOT want as many kids as she had, but she is Catholic and birth control was forbidden and obeying your husband was a priority. Even when I was growing up and birth control for women was starting to be widely available, women were expected to get married and have kids or something was wrong with you. This is a cultural thing.

:nice:
 

Eilonwy

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Oh, and biology has a lot to do with it, too. I know women who want lots of kids, but can't conceive for one reason or another. But culture and societal expectations play a huge role.
 

SilkRoad

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I disagree. I don't think type has as much to do with how many kids you have as culture does. Up until very recently, women were expected to get married and have kids. Men decided if they had enough kids. My mom did NOT want as many kids as she had, but she is Catholic and birth control was forbidden and obeying your husband was a priority. Even when I was growing up and birth control for women was starting to be widely available, women were expected to get married and have kids or something was wrong with you. This is a cultural thing.

Exactly. There are SO many other variables. I happen to be an INFJ who doesn't particularly want kids (though I could maybe imagine that changing if I was with the right guy, but that's another story - my mom said she felt like that.) However, had I been born into a different culture or somehow a different set of circumstances, I might have been very nearly forced to have kids regardless of my type or my personal wishes.

Also, I think the "SFJ women are most likely to want kids" thing leaves out the whole aspect of the other half the equation - the guy. People have kids for all kinds of reasons. Both of them really want kids. The woman really wants kids and the man not so much. The man really wants kids and the woman not so much. Neither of them really do but their families put a lot of pressure on them. The condom breaks and they will not go for abortion or put the kid up for adoption. Etc.
 

chickpea

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nah, i got a crazy enfp mom. we did disagree on her enneagram type though, i thought she was a 2w3 and she thinks she's a 7w6, i can see how her being a mother would make her seem more 2-ish to me.
 

Rasofy

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Fact #1 Most people in the world are SJs
Fact #2 Most women in the world are Fs
Also, I have a theory that most people who post in mbti forums are people that live in environments where they feel misunderstood...and a great way to feel misunderstood is being an INTX with a SFJ mom.
My mom (ISFJ) is great. She cares about me - ok, sometimes cares too much - and is always there for everything I need. She is usually boring though. I don't have much to talk with her.
 

Undeclared

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What's the complete opposite of INTp? because whatever it is that's what my mother is.... x_X
 

PeaceBaby

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Those results may say more about which types are likely to have a job where people administer MBTI test, than about the population in general... which would explain the HUGE SJ plurality. :dry: Freaking bad MBTI stats grumble grumble...

So, you don't think there are many SJ's around?

Plus, I can provide more compelling evidence, if you so wish.

My point in this thread is to only say that if approximately 50% of the world is SJ, probability would suggest one of your parents is an SJ.

Ergo, why would it be necessarily strange to have an SJ parent?

For the record, I do agree that ESTJ's and ESFJ's get branded with inaccurate stereotypes ALL THE TIME! You know what those stereotypes are so it's not necessary for me to reiterate.
 
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