[MBTI General] I may have a problem with SFJ men......

[tinker683]

Oh dear you guys are gonna be pissed, but I think I've been talking about an ISTJ all along.

Heh.

The stuff I said about Ne still applies.

*runs and hides*

You're still amazing and interesting in my book though

 

[Amargith]

*lurks and takes notes on ISFJ-moves*

 

[IZthe411]

Your work place seems like a generic sitcom.
I couldn't help but laugh when I envisioned someone interrupting your conversation to tell you that you were being rude.

It's nuts.
It's sometimes so miserable you can't do anything but laugh about it.
We are attempting to change, though. We had training the last week and the director of our group is really trying to loosen up. She's TRYING very hard. She's ISTJ. She gave us a green light to become more influential in our day-to-day. I wonder how many people got that message.

I got a chance to hang with some different people I normally have a good time with- and found out that they are INTJ, ENFJ, and an ENTJ dude who is 23 years old and knows more 80s music than me. In one class I wasn't in they took a DISC profile (I think that's how you spell the acronym), and we were comparing it to MBTI. So that's how all the types came out. It was kind of shocking and cool at the same time to learn their types.

I got a little grief from my team that I wasn't hanging with them LOL.

 

[IZthe411]

Here's some insight I'd like to understand better. It seems common that we ENTPs don't have a very good understanding of when we've crossed the line from playful to irritating. I know I don't.

It took meeting other ENTPs in person and being painfully honest with myself to realize that I could possibly be annoying sometimes.

So what are some clues that we're crossing that line? I'm guessing we can push the line a bit further out by first getting people to like us and understand where we're coming from, right? What about people who just get annoyed by our existence? Is there any hope for reconciliation with them?

It seems like as an adult I get along pretty easily with about 99% of the population, while about 1% hates my guts no matter what I do.

Good question. I know with one ENTP guy I know- very strong Ne, very extraverted. Love him to death but he'll keep talking and talking and talking, and laughing to himself about stuff. I have no problem following him but sometimes he's just talking his thoughts out, giving details that don't necessarily tie to the point, and I start to zone out. I usually find that at the end of his stories that he'll bring it home and summarize his point. He doesn't notice that I zone out. I think that's more of the E than anything else. Most Es seem to talk and talk and talk, and after a while they'll notice that you aren't listening to them. Some will even say "I know I'm talking your ear off" and let the situation die. Thank you.

 

[IZthe411]

Oh I think ENFPs fuck with people too...for some reason I think this is nature of Ne to entertain ourselves in this fashion...I've just had ENTPs persistently mess with me because they knew it made me squirm...and keep pushing...and keep pushing...I've had SFJ guys do this too (but they cave more easily, they show how amused they are or feel guilty or something unless they truly hate you). ENTPs remind me more of a scientist with a lab rat, "ooh look at it squirm!"

I only do this to people when I feel like they deserve it, or if they need to learn some crucial lesson they seem to have missed along the way. I like to poke people, but I'm not going to put people in tears, and I don't think some *immature, mostly male* ENTPs mind doing that at all.

Here at work- ENTP dude manipulates the ESFJ guy. It's soo funny. ENTP will come over and say something to me to try to get me riled up, and the ESFJ will cheerlead. But other times the ENTP will shoot down the ESFJ.

The ENTP I was talking about earlier does the same thing with this ESTJ dude- likes to rile him up and leave him sitting there like . It got to the point that the ESTJ was starting to avoid him unless it was about business. It's sooo funny.

 

[Thalassa]

You're still amazing and interesting in my book though

Oh ha I still love SFJs (I dated an ESFJ for five years, and I've dated at least one ISFJ)....I just mean I was giving examples of someone who is actually Si/Te/Fi/Ne...who identified with ISFJ because of strength of Fi...but that isn't the same as Si/Fe.

I knew something was off all along, I just pretty much found theoretical "proof" and got him to agree to it.

 

[tinker683]

Oh ha I still love SFJs (I dated an ESFJ for five years, and I've dated at least one ISFJ)....I just mean I was giving examples of someone who is actually Si/Te/Fi/Ne...who identified with ISFJ because of strength of Fi...but that isn't the same as Si/Fe.

I knew something was off all along, I just pretty much found theoretical "proof" and got him to agree to it.

Oh I'm sure, I was just being silly. As strange as this may sound, I just like knowing that you think so fondly of xSFJ guys. Makes me feel like there is hope for me yet

 

[Giggly]

Well that's true, and a great point.

Hm, yeah, that makes sense. I think another part of the reason ENTPs like to push is because we want to learn from others, so push them to explain themselves so that we can understand their perspective better. For me, it bugs me when I don't understand someone else's perspective, so I prod them to explain it so that I can understand it. I think that since a lot of people are unable or unwilling to explain or articulate the reasoning behind their opinions, being prodded this way is annoying or frustrating for them.

I understand. I sometimes do the same thing (push to understand someone) but if it seems like some sort of subjective preference that they have then I might tell them how I feel about the topic and then leave them be with their own preferences, because I think people have a right to have their individual preferences.

Whether the ENTP realizes they are being irritating or not, once they reach the point where the other person is unable or unwilling to explain their viewpoint, the ENTP prods a bit more in hopes of getting a better explanation out of them, and if it doesn't work, then they switch to teasing in attempt to keep it good-natured. Some ENTPs also use that to feel like they've "won" or one-upped the other person, but I think the initial intent is to try to figure people and their opinions out like puzzles.

I have encountered puzzles like this too and sometimes people just can't explain because the source is feeling-based and you can't always explain feelings until you have done a lot of introspection.

 

[redcheerio]

Yes that's exactly how it is. It can be exciting and challenging to disagree, and I learn sometimes from arguments. And sometimes it's just fun to banter and go back and forth with the verbal barbs, I'm not going to lie. It depends on how mean it gets, though, past a certain point of cruelty or nitpicking it's no longer fun for me and just seems mean and unnecessary.

Yes, I do like to argue with NTs a lot, but I also feel like they're the ones most likely to cross the line into being truly mean, for some reason, at least on forums. I'm pretty tough too, I'm not a "fragile" NF by any means. I just think at a point it just becomes degrading.

It's true, Ts can be mean. I think young Ts like to think of it as pure honesty, and celebrate their lack of empathy as if it's like a sign of strength or something.

Yes, this has happened to me. Sometimes the T is super-intelligent and they do have something to teach me, sometimes we're equally intelligent and just see things from a different angle (and they're disregarding mine because it's a Feeler/relationship/ethical angle)....and occasionally I feel as though the NT isn't very bright, and they're totally wrong, and that's the most frustrating...there's nothing like a not-very-bright or incorrect NT who still thinks he or she is smarter than you.

Yes, that would be annoying. I remember when I was younger and people who just met me would assume I wasn't very smart because I have blond hair. (Now that I've established myself as an engineer, I don't have to deal with that anymore.) So I know what that's like.

 

[redcheerio]

Good question. I know with one ENTP guy I know- very strong Ne, very extraverted. Love him to death but he'll keep talking and talking and talking, and laughing to himself about stuff. I have no problem following him but sometimes he's just talking his thoughts out, giving details that don't necessarily tie to the point, and I start to zone out. I usually find that at the end of his stories that he'll bring it home and summarize his point. He doesn't notice that I zone out. I think that's more of the E than anything else. Most Es seem to talk and talk and talk, and after a while they'll notice that you aren't listening to them. Some will even say "I know I'm talking your ear off" and let the situation die. Thank you.

He sounds like an ENTP I know, too, an extreme extrovert.

Here at work- ENTP dude manipulates the ESFJ guy. It's soo funny. ENTP will come over and say something to me to try to get me riled up, and the ESFJ will cheerlead. But other times the ENTP will shoot down the ESFJ.

The ENTP I was talking about earlier does the same thing with this ESTJ dude- likes to rile him up and leave him sitting there like . It got to the point that the ESTJ was starting to avoid him unless it was about business. It's sooo funny.

What do you mean by "manipulate"? I have very negative connotations associated with that word, but I know that other ENTPs will say that they manipulate people. By my definition of manipulate, it doesn't seem like an ENTP thing to do. To me, manipulation is sort of passive aggressive and evil.

 

[redcheerio]

I understand. I sometimes do the same thing (push to understand someone) but if it seems like some sort of subjective preference that they have then I might tell them how I feel about the topic and then leave them be with their own preferences, because I think people have a right to have their individual preferences.

I have encountered puzzles like this too and sometimes people just can't explain because the source is feeling-based and you can't always explain feelings until you have done a lot of introspection.

That makes sense. I guess for ENTPs, it's difficult to understand how someone can have an opinion without having thought it through. So at that point, we have to give up on understanding and just accept, or leave it be.

 

[Giggly]

That makes sense. I guess for ENTPs, it's difficult to understand how someone can have an opinion without having thought it through. So at that point, we have to give up on understanding and just accept, or leave it be.

And that's probably when I'd go all soft.

 

[redcheerio]

And that's probably when I'd go all soft.

Aw, cute.

Problem is, most young ENTPs would have a hard time doing that, maybe even have a hard time realizing it's appropriate. We can be very determined/ stubborn!

 

[IZthe411]

He sounds like an ENTP I know, too, an extreme extrovert.




What do you mean by "manipulate"? I have very negative connotations associated with that word, but I know that other ENTPs will say that they manipulate people. By my definition of manipulate, it doesn't seem like an ENTP thing to do. To me, manipulation is sort of passive aggressive and evil.

Definitely not in a bad way. The entp has no bad intent. He just has this way of influencing the ESFJ's actions. It has me cracking up.

 

[redcheerio]

Definitely not in a bad way. The entp has no bad intent. He just has this way of influencing the ESFJ's actions. It has me cracking up.

Ah, ok, gotcha, thanks.