[ESTJ] Convincing an ESTJ to change their mind?

[gulsy]

First time posting, so hello to all of you (waves).

I am an ISTJ and my mom is an ESTJ. Below I have a huge explanation about my issue, but if you don't want to read everything, my main question is: How do I go about changing an ESTJ's mind? Is that even something possible?

(sorry, I decided to delete the background...felt like I was going into more detail than was necessary)

Any help or insights will be extremely appreciated! (from ESTJ's and non-ESTJ's alike...who have had experience)

 

[Thalassa]

You can't force anyone to change their mind, especially not a TJ. You should know that being a TJ yourself.

Besides, if your mom is already that hostile about it, it sounds like your friend would be better off somewhere else anyway.

 

[Thalassa]

Oh, and hello by the way. Welcome to the forum.

Your mom sounds so controlling, I kind of feel bad for you, and for your friend.

Is it possible to brainstorm other ideas for her? Like solutions besides living with you?

 

[EJCC]

First time posting, so hello to all of you (waves).

Hi! :hi:

So (to repeat) my question is: how can I change an ESTJ's mind? Is it really even possible for me to do that, given the situation? I refuse to tell my friend to move her stuff elsewhere (IF she moves in, this is just an arrangement I will offer to her), but I know my mom will find out that she hasn't moved her stuff (my mom visits my apartment and my room often, when she comes to pick me up). And then she will proceed to yell at me, and possibly at my friend. If not at my friend, she will definitely yell at me about her and may come to associate her with corruption of our relationship, etc etc etc., which will make my life very difficult and will only expand the gap between my mom and I. What can I do?

Any help or insights will be extremely appreciated! (from ESTJ's and non-ESTJ's alike...who have had experience)

What follows is kind of thinking out loud... but here it is anyway.

To answer the broader question: Absolutely you can change an ESTJ's mind. It is absolutely not impossible. All you need is enough evidence/information that proves the opposite, and that they consider credible/valid.

I know you said that your mom is "impossible to convince", but do you usually argue with her? Does she usually end your conversation with a "Because I said so and the mother is always right"? If that's the case, then some conflict may be called for, i.e. a little bluntness on your part. Otherwise... It sounds like you've already talked to her about it, so all I can say is that you talk to her more. Debate her, explain in great depth exactly why you think it's the right thing. Or do what Marm suggested and brainstorm with her. Don't let your mom think her word is law; engage her in discussion.

Two questions, though (so I don't give you bad advice due to lack of information):
1. Is she usually like that? Is she usually a helicopter parent, bossing you around like that? I mean, you're in college. She ought to be giving you at least a semblance of autonomy.
2. Do you pay your own rent? Does she give you money? Because if you're self-sufficient, what right does she have to tell you how to manage your own apartment? Aren't your study habits and living environment yours to change as you see fit? It's not like your mom lives there; frankly it's none of her business. Unless you think she would really explode at you (and you certainly know her better than me), it might be a good idea to assert your independence and say that this is your decision.

 

[gulsy]

Thanks for the hello's!

"Is it possible to brainstorm other ideas for her? Like solutions besides living with you?"

Eh, she has a backup plan--her dad living with her, which she is uncomfortable with because she thinks it's unfair to her mom. As for other possible roommates, she doesn't want to live with someone she doesn't know, which means (I think) that she won't find anyone. All of her close friends from our college already have places to live. I suppose I should've interfered more strongly earlier in the game, when there were other possible roommates she could've taken, but I thought she would've handled it on her own and that possible roommate ended up finding somewhere else to live.

Yes, when I do argue with my mom (over time I've realized it's best to just listen to her, makes both our lives easier and is really just the best thing to do lol), she usually does end with-- I'm your mom, don't argue with me.

Yeah, I guess she does usually try to control what I do, to some degree. She's very protective and I certainly wouldn't be in such a (relatively) advantageous position if it weren't for her. I'm very grateful, but when she has made a decision it's difficult to change it unless I whine a lot. But since this involves another person I'm afraid to take that route because I don't want my mom to end up angry with my friend.

I DON'T pay my own rent-- sadly I have no job (and can't really take one up at this time). In any case, telling my mom this is my decision and asserting my independence is also probably not a good idea since that would basically make it seem like I was trying to cut ties with her. I suppose cultural background plays a role in this.

I guess I really just want to see if I can broach the topic again without my mom cutting me off angrily before I can make my point. Also, what substance can I add to my point that will make her more willing to listen? Do you think it's better that I wait until my friend moves in (I haven't told her yet that my place is up for grabs, but I'm 99% sure she won't find another roommate before school starts), and then bring up the topic with my mom?

 

[FDG]

Why do you keep on telling things about your private life to your mother? I personally stopped when I was 14. It doesn't do any good. Just lie to her and tell her there's nobody in your apartment except you, unless you live extremely near your hometown and might be afraid that she came over to check out.

 

[Giggly]

I have found that the STJs that I know need empirical evidence to be convinced of something more than any other type I have seen.

 

[gulsy]

Thanks for all the responses, guys, I think I've figured this out after talking it over with a friend I think the best empirical evidence will be if my mom sees with her own eyes that there's room for a dresser, hopefully that'll be soon. Thanks again!