[SJ] I have a new set of policies for you SJ's to implement

[Saslou]

Falcon. Please don't come in here and fuck with the SJ 'chi' ..

And if i want to talk at the cooler, then i will .. Pay me better then i'll work my worth

 

[Vasilisa]

Thanks for saying the truth. You NF's have knack for appearing cooperative/good when you are implicitly selling yourself/expecting approval.

Could be. Could also be that I happen to be up to my ears in this exact subject right now and I thought there was a chance to have a conversation about it on the board. And it could be I wondered whether you had more to say in-depth about HR theories and practices, aside from blaming a temperament type for a lack of its implementation and progress. Could even be I wanted to share something slightly personal on a platform where the policies don't discourage that.

Any way you choose to look at it, its interesting that it gets you shouting.

OK I LIKE YOU, ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???

Thrilled

 

[EJCC]

This is the most bizarre thread dynamic I've ever seen... Half the people are teasing each other, and the other half are getting upset?

:footballreferee: Tweet! Communication issue alert!

I rule that we all need to and have a

 

[Nameless Hero]

Falcon: You claim to be an entrepreneur. What is the good or service you offer? I think that this information will add substance to the discussion.

 

[Falcon]

I promise, you won't find me guilty of initiating or encouraging water-cooler chat, when I could always opt for silence. Honest!

You're right!

The flaw in your argument is that being able to get things done in an organization often comes down to relationships, knowing how things work there and knowing the culture. It is efficient for companies to move people around into different roles because they know how to get things done at the company, have the relationships and understand the business better than somebody coming in from the outside. Also, turnover costs money. I'm a consultant, and do understand the value of bringing in outsiders, new blood, etc. but these things I mentioned are part of competency. Also, having to do things differently costs money.

I'm not saying companies couldn't do a better job with hiring practices. I agree it is of enormous importance.

You do have a point, though it's not really effective for companies to do so in the long term, because irrational aspects get involved in the decision making and the result is not meritocratic enough in practice.

Falcon. Please don't come in here and fuck with the SJ 'chi' ..

And if i want to talk at the cooler, then i will .. Pay me better then i'll work my worth

Hahaha, you're right.

Could be. Could also be that I happen to be up to my ears in this exact subject right now and I thought there was a chance to have a conversation about it on the board. And it could be I wondered whether you had more to say in-depth about HR theories and practices, aside from blaming a temperament type for a lack of its implementation and progress. Could even be I wanted to share something slightly personal on a platform where the policies don't discourage that.

I'm sorry, I don't feel guilty - I'm too selfish for that.

Any way you choose to look at it, its interesting that it gets you shouting.

How can you interpret this baed on text?

Thrilled

So you're competitive emotionally?

This is the most bizarre thread dynamic I've ever seen... Half the people are teasing each other, and the other half are getting upset?

:footballreferee: Tweet! Communication issue alert!

I rule that we all need to and have a

So you like to come in at the right moment to be the mediator - you clever ESTJ!!!

Falcon: You claim to be an entrepreneur. What is the good or service you offer? I think that this information will add substance to the discussion.

"Nameless Hero", you don't seriously think you're going to get your way with this: I offer a service for ENFP's who use ad hominem as a cheesy tactic. :hi:

 

[rav3n]

Falcon, you're the caricature of an ENTJ. Stop trying so hard. It's embarrassing.

 

[Falcon]

Falcon, you're the caricature of an ENTJ. Stop trying so hard. It's embarrassing.

Hahaha... you know you love it

 

[rav3n]

No, I don't love it.

You wander into the SJ guardhouse and start telling them what to do. WTF? As if SJs are responsible for all the ills in the corporate world. Bull. ENTJs have their share of responsibility.

I don't deny that the current Fe based corporate culture drives me batty since it's the worse side of Fe, both manipulative and an ineffective waste of time and resources. But between legislation and policy, is there really a choice? And ENTJs are just as bad with the manipulative side or steamrolling to get others in line.

So do stop with the controlling. It is embarrassing. And yes, I'm pushing you back which is me, doing to you, what you're doing to others.

 

[Falcon]

No, I don't love it.

You wander into the SJ guardhouse and start telling them what to do. WTF? As if SJs are responsible for all the ills in the corporate world. Bull. ENTJs have their share of responsibility.

I don't deny that the current Fe based corporate culture drives me batty since it's the worse side of Fe, both manipulative and an ineffective waste of time and resources. But between legislation and policy, is there really a choice? And ENTJs are just as bad with the manipulative side or steamrolling to get others in line.

So do stop with the controlling. It is embarrassing. And yes, I'm pushing you back which is me, doing to you, what you're doing to others.

You must be kidding, ENTJ's are the most bent on making things meritocratic.

The problem is not with Fe - the problem is with the Ti and Te content underlying Fe. There is a lack of logic supporting the Fe.

Exactly - I'm not supposed to be somebody that is "good", but you like to be a savior

 

[Vasilisa]

You must be kidding, ENTJ's are the most bent on making things meritocratic.

Then explain in detail your ideal performance appraisal model.

 

[rav3n]

You must be kidding, ENTJ's are the most bent on making things meritocratic.

The problem is not with Fe - the problem is with the Ti and Te content underlying Fe. There is a lack of logic supporting the Fe.

Exactly - I'm not supposed to be somebody that is "good", but you like to be a savior

Evidence of manipulativeness. Twisting words and perceptions to further personal agenda, an agenda that's highly subjective where there are no right or wrong ways to do things. There are only personal preferences and highly questionable ethics.

As a "real" ENTJ, I choose to take a Fi stance which is also subjective. Back off.

 

[Falcon]

Then explain in detail your ideal performance appraisal model.

There is no "ideal", there is the most practical model - and it is whichever is documented in journals as providing the best results.

Evidence of manipulativeness. Twisting words and perceptions to further personal agenda, an agenda that's highly subjective where there are no right or wrong ways to do things. There are only personal preferences and highly questionable ethics.

As a "real" ENTJ, I choose to take a Fi stance which is also subjective. Back off.

Clever Absolutely, just as your statement is neither good/bad morally!

Ah, the Fi stance. It's important: you're right to take stances.

 

[rav3n]

Wrote out a relatively long post and it disappeared with connectivity so I'll provide a short form for it.

Don't try to distract from the point I'm trying to make to you. All responsibility doesn't belong at the SJ doorstep. To do so is to both project and avoid type and personal responsibilities of the state of corporate structure.

The corporate world is hamstrung by PC legislation. If you want real change then facilitate something real by lobbying for change and getting new legislation enacted. Otherwise, you're placing an unfair burden on SJs. As if change within all SJs is going to make a drop of good when juxtapositioned against civil liability. HR and PCness are here to stay.

 

[Saslou]

Falcon .. Come on then .. Confess.

Whats this really about? I'm intrigued.

 

[Vasilisa]

There is no "ideal", there is the most practical model - and it is whichever is documented in journals as providing the best results.

But there is no objective best. They all have strengths and weakness that can play to or against the performance management process. Its about defining, facilitating, and encouraging performance. The acceptability of the appraisal system is actually the most important aspect. It needs input from the people involved: managers and employees.

I could see you selecting MBO or Rank-and-Yank

 

[rav3n]

Falcon .. Come on then .. Confess.

Whats this really about? I'm intrigued.

In shifting perspectives, it's a bid for recognition and in retrospect, I shouldn't have jumped on him.

 

[EJCC]

So you like to come in at the right moment to be the mediator - you clever ESTJ!!!

Clever, but obviously not successful...

I'm unsubscribing now.

 

[Giggly]

Falcon. Please don't come in here and fuck with the SJ 'chi' ..

And if i want to talk at the cooler, then i will .. Pay me better then i'll work my worth

Word! Get out of the SJ palace, you dirty trouble-maker.

 

[Falcon]

Wrote out a relatively long post and it disappeared with connectivity so I'll provide a short form for it.

Don't try to distract from the point I'm trying to make to you. All responsibility doesn't belong at the SJ doorstep. To do so is to both project and avoid type and personal responsibilities of the state of corporate structure.

The corporate world is hamstrung by PC legislation. If you want real change then facilitate something real by lobbying for change and getting new legislation enacted. Otherwise, you're placing an unfair burden on SJs. As if change within all SJs is going to make a drop of good when juxtapositioned against civil liability. HR and PCness are here to stay.

Tell me - is your idea of fun starting to be all serious about things? You're just being a jerk.

You want a serious answer? Don't take anything about personality seriously: personality is a *poor* predictor of job performance. The MBTI is not a hard science and cannot not be taken lightly.

Next time, do your own research before attempting to be either a) competent or b) funny.

Falcon .. Come on then .. Confess.

Whats this really about? I'm intrigued.

This is part of a secret plan I have of conquering each temperament

But there is no objective best. They all have strengths and weakness that can play to or against the performance management process. Its about defining, facilitating, and encouraging performance. The acceptability of the appraisal system is actually the most important aspect. It needs input from the people involved: managers and employees.

I could see you selecting MBO or Rank-and-Yank

Definitely, I would be going for MBO. Now, what you're saying is true. What specific systems would you recommend, or do you like?

In shifting perspectives, it's a bid for recognition and in retrospect, I shouldn't have jumped on him.

Conscientiousness about thinking before you act, next time don't be so impulsive, unless you're subconsciously looking for a beating from a Field Marshal.

Clever, but obviously not successful...

I'm unsubscribing now.

It's always like that being a mediator, it sucks. This is why I just prefer to be on the side of the bad guys.

Word! Get out of the SJ palace, you dirty trouble-maker.

 

[Totenkindly]

Reminder: This is the SJ section of the site, and as an ENTJ, you're a visitor in it.

I don't think your posts are having the effect you intended them to have.
And if they are, that should change ... quickly.

Thanks.