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[ISTJ] Could the ISTJ be considered a Rational personality?

EJCC

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Oh! Forgot to reply to this.
Ah yes, a challenge!

Some of that stuff I just said for the sake of being a dick, and it was good fun too.

Also, although I believe in the existence of functions, I have found that if we start obsessing over them too much, we begin to lose touch with the overall personality of a type.

Functions or not, it just seems to me a general pattern what I wrote in the other post.

Still, I'm sure there are plenty of very smart and high leveled Te doms, as well as some very stupid and low leveled Ti doms, and perhaps not all Te seconds are just in the middle.

To be frank though, I really don't know what I'm talking about. I just like to attack things for the thrill of it.

Feel free to provide counter-arguments in your defence.
One thing that I will concede is that IxTx types are more patient and more willing to spend time looking through the necessary data before acting. ExTx types are more likely to get bored with that and just want to get started, already! (Especially ESTx.)

However -- and maybe this is a cop-out argument -- I think that which types are the most "rational" would depend on which definition of "rational" you're using. If you're thinking of rationality as pure reason/logic, separate from, and transcending, the concrete/worldly, then I'd say xNTPs are the most rational. But if being rational means being sensible or reasonable, then xSTx definitely win out. After all, the reason why ESTJs are always the supervisors or bosses is that they can quickly and easily make decisions, when faced with any number of options, and they can do so without any of those decisions being arbitrary. Additionally, the way that STJs experience/apply reason is pure mathematics, inherently: X equals Y, Y equals Z, therefore X equals Z. (There's a reason why STJs are stereotyped as being like number-crunching machines!)
 

Il Morto Che Parla

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Depends what you mean by "rational".

They could be rational in everyday usage, but they are not Rationals -a NOUN NOT AN ADJECTIVE - in the sense of the MBTI temperament.

Whenever people try to conflate MBTI terminology with everyday terminology, it leads to misunderstanding.
 
G

Glycerine

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My iSTJ brother seems fairly rational but on certain customs, he comes off like an emotional brat. He will complain the whole time about the fact we don't have a "real tree" so I convinced my mother to buy a real tree so we don't have to hear about it this year. He's 25 almost 26. hah!
 

Nicki

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While ISTJs are very good at thinking objectively, they're not too into abstract thinking. They're practical and sensible most of the time. They are not Rationals in terms of Keirsey temperaments but they are fairly rational.
 

Phil P

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This is what I figured as well.

Would you guys go as far as to say that ISTJ's fit better under the Rationale archetype than Guardian? They certainly seem that way to me.

Nope. While they are rational people, they are NOT like NT's. I think Rational is a bad word to describe NT's because all humans are rational, just in different aspects.

Most ISTJ's I know are not real big picture thinkers like other NT's are. The S/N type is the one that is the most differentiating type letter in my opinion and ISTJ's have more in common with ISFJ's or ESTJ's in my opinion than they do with INTJ's.
 
W

WALMART

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Depends what you mean by "rational".

They could be rational in everyday usage, but they are not Rationals -a NOUN NOT AN ADJECTIVE - in the sense of the MBTI temperament.

Whenever people try to conflate MBTI terminology with everyday terminology, it leads to misunderstanding.


Why assign labels if they admittedly don't work into the lexicon? How SJ.


I think ISTJ's to be incredibly rational people, if there were a universal measurement of such a thing.
 

Lark

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Isnt that Sherlock Holmes type? And wasnt Holmes a paragon of rationalism?

I think there's a lot of people on this forum dont understand Sensing as opposed to Intuiting if its considered to eschew rationalism, at least they dont understand it like Jung forumulated the idea.
 

RaptorWizard

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A rational personality, yes.
An inventive personality, somewhat.
A transformative personality, no.
A theoretical personality, a bit.
A moderate personality, mostly.
Smarter than the other SJs, yes.
 

Jstrazz

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I think that it varies within the type itself. I think ISTJ's have the ability to choose between logically focused living and emotionally focused living at any given second or whim. My mother (an ISTJ) is often illogical and goes for cutesy arguments and manipulative comments that make me cringe and lose respect for her. HOWEVER, the next minute she is organizing things, concrete objects such as rooms, financial documents or anything for that matter beyond what anyone could ever imagine. She uses logic in her reasoning and lifestyle. It is more complicated than I am presenting it. I think ISTJ's have the "rational" side that NT's have, but are able to snap out of it and focus on everyday, practical and even emotional needs, only to snap back into the logical, almost detached, lifestyle. I am not saying NT's are oblivious to those situations and concerns, per se, but ISTJ's have a special gift to be able to balance the NT mentality with the SJ practicality. I agree with many of the posts in this thread that the "stereotypical ISTJ" is a drone, compared to the genius scientist INTJ (Many of my INTJ friends are incredibly brilliant). But where this stereotype is wrong is that it takes incredible logic and rational thinking to organize and problem solve in financial settings. Another thing that the stereotype leaves out is that that ISTJ "drone" slowly moves up the chain and becomes a controller or CFO or even CEO, where rational decisions are required on a daily basis. This post has become somewhat of a rant and long-winded, but the point I am trying to make is that ISTJ's have a special Rational side identical to NT's, but they also have the SJ side, in between which they can switch at will. In short, yes, ISTJ's could be considered "Rationals" but their ability to switch to between cold rational living and practical living renders them rational guardians.
 

skylights

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Smarter than the other SJs, yes.

Beh. Smart is questionable in definition and questionable in value. The SFJs who I know closely are some of the happiest, most well-adjusted people I know - not to mention all being very intelligent, in my opinion. If that's not smart...

Jstrazz said:
But where this stereotype is wrong is that it takes incredible logic and rational thinking to organize and problem solve in financial settings. Another thing that the stereotype leaves out is that that ISTJ "drone" slowly moves up the chain and becomes a controller or CFO or even CEO, where rational decisions are required on a daily basis.

Indeed. INTJs are far more hit-or-miss. ISTJs are much more consistent. I think this plays out across the whole NJ-SJ divide.
 

RaptorWizard

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Beh. Smart is questionable in definition and questionable in value. The SFJs who I know closely are some of the happiest, most well-adjusted people I know - not to mention all being very intelligent, in my opinion. If that's not smart...

Fool
The goal of the Fool is perhaps the wisest goal of all, which is just to enjoy life as it is, with all its paradoxes and dilemmas.

What causes most dread in the Fool is a lack of stimulation and being 'not alive'. They must seek to 'be', perhaps as the Sage, but may not understand this.
 

skylights

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Fool
The goal of the Fool is perhaps the wisest goal of all, which is just to enjoy life as it is, with all its paradoxes and dilemmas.

What causes most dread in the Fool is a lack of stimulation and being 'not alive'. They must seek to 'be', perhaps as the Sage, but may not understand this.

Nice answer. Indeed.

Which card are you?
 

RaptorWizard

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Nice answer. Indeed.

Which card are you?

ChaosDarkMagician.JPG
 

Jstrazz

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Indeed. INTJs are far more hit-or-miss. ISTJs are much more consistent. I think this plays out across the whole NJ-SJ divide.

I think NT's (especially NJ's) resemble SJ's so much is because to be part of "the establishment" or the gov't or a business takes quite a lot fo logic and rational thinking, something many SJ's share with NT's
 

Vilku

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rational? hardly, istj is the most common personality with emotional lying problems,(compulsive lying) ie inability not to lie because of emotional reasons. if theres an istj who doesnt have this problem, then they have my full respect.

irrationality, i think its source is disintegration, and every type is equally liable to that.

on other notes, i think sx so is the most rational minded of instincts.
 

Winds of Thor

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yes, very rational like the intj but less morbid.

Adding to this, ISTJs are attuned to nuances of situations and make decisions using circumstantial details.
 

Winds of Thor

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rational? hardly, istj is the most common personality with emotional lying problems,(compulsive lying) ie inability not to lie because of emotional reasons. if theres an istj who doesnt have this problem, then they have my full respect.

irrationality, i think its source is disintegration, and every type is equally liable to that.

on other notes, i think sx so is the most rational minded of instincts.

Interesting. What does this mean?
 
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