[ESFJ] ESFJ hates me

[Chaotic Harmony]

It's so ironic that in some threads you see where people talk about how far ESFJs will go to avoid conflict, and then this one has an ESFJ that was involved in a screaming incident. Sheesh, what are we bipolar!?

 

[mrcockburn]

Background: I am a systems analyst in a small company. Most days, I shut myself in my office (a converted closet) and work on software projects all day long. Seriously, I can go a whole week without saying more than a few words to my co-workers.

One of the bookkeepers has decided that she dislikes me. She is strong ESFJ (family pictures and cute sayings all over her desk, feelings easily hurt). This lady also has a history of conflict with other staff members. She seems to target her animosity towards one person for a while then they make up and are best buddies.

Apparently, I am "the one" right now. If I ignore her, will she give up after a while?

Ignore her? no way, that'll just piss her off even more and make you seem arrogant/uncaring in her eyes, validating her emotions. I think the thing to do with Fe-doms that are pissed at you is to "kill em with kindness" and politeness. Don't let her steamroll you, but be diplomatic and honest.

I'm sorry to say, ignoring them DOES NOT WORK. That's like ignoring a forest fire on a hot windy day. And ESFJs are full of hot air.

Be fake polite...otherwise, they'll dwell on the smallest detail or lapse in niceties/small talk. My mother's an ESFJ manager and even if people are being polite, if they're not chatty and emotional like she is, she obsesses over it and takes it personally. (And she's HUGE on personal pictures of her little dogs dressed in sundresses, soppy home-is-where-the-heart is quotes, etc.)

However, before I can give you any specific advice, you need to clarify how she's causing problems. The details matter. Especially to ESFJs.

 

[Giggly]

It's so ironic that in some threads you see where people talk about how far ESFJs will go to avoid conflict, and then this one has an ESFJ that was involved in a screaming incident. Sheesh, what are we bipolar!?

you noticed that too? lol Lambchop (an ISFJ who used to post) pointed that out too. She said ISFJ's are pegged as doormats on one hand and overbearing and controlling on the other. But isn't it impossible to be both????? Make up your mind folks!

It was that point that I realized that SJ's are just the dumping ground for any bad behaviors people see. That and the fact that other types act the same exact way (or even sometimes more exaggerated versions) but people just ignore that.

 

[stringstheory]

you noticed that too? lol Lambchop (an ISFJ who used to post) pointed that out too. She said ISFJ's are pegged as doormats on one hand and overbearing and controlling on the other. But isn't it impossible to be both????? Make up your mind folks!

Well i don't know, maybe it's impossible to be both at once but sometimes when unhealthy people show their dark side it can be negative and sometimes the complete opposite of their otherwise healthy selves. That and it's not always the same people being brought up all the time anyway.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

I'm sorry to say, ignoring them DOES NOT WORK. That's like ignoring a forest fire on a hot windy day. And ESFJs are full of hot air.

Be fake polite...otherwise, they'll dwell on the smallest detail or lapse in niceties/small talk. My mother's an ESFJ manager and even if people are being polite, if they're not chatty and emotional like she is, she obsesses over it and takes it personally. (And she's HUGE on personal pictures of her little dogs dressed in sundresses, soppy home-is-where-the-heart is quotes, etc.)

However, before I can give you any specific advice, you need to clarify how she's causing problems. The details matter. Especially to ESFJs.

As an ESFJ if someone ignores me, I move on with my life. What's the point in wasting energy on someone that obviously doesn't care?

Kind of funny how two ESFJ's here have now said that we have zero personal items or sappy quotes around our desk.... And yet people are still insisting that it's a sure sign to spot an ESFJ. Two people can be the same personality type and appear very different.

 

[mrcockburn]

As an ESFJ if someone ignores me, I move on with my life. What's the point in wasting energy on someone that obviously doesn't care?

hah! My mother always says that but never actually does it. (Not saying that's the case with you.)

Kind of funny how two ESFJ's here have now said that we have zero personal items or sappy quotes around our desk.... And yet people are still insisting that it's a sure sign to spot an ESFJ. Two people can be the same personality type and appear very different.

Well there are a few possibilities.

1. The ESFJs on here want to fit in (SJ style), so will not affirm anything that will alienate their species from the predominantly NT/F MBTI forum.

2. The "different" ESFJs want to point out THEIR atypical ESFJ tendencies, whereas the typical ones reading won't bother, as their love of frilliness has been established already, and affirming it with personal anecdote would be redundant.

3. A different brand of ESFJs lurk this site. And the OP was referring to the average, everyday ones who (s)he encounters.

4. You're mistyped.

Stereotypes are stereotypes, but they exist for a reason. MOST of the ESFJs I knew were hellbent on mushy gush. Not all, but most. And I previously spoke in sweeping generalities, because it's simply easier to write like that than to have to constantly say, "Well, this doesn't apply to ALL ESFJs, but MANY of the ones I know yada yada yada yay".

 

[Giggly]

Mushy gush is needed to combat the cranky priks.

 

[mrcockburn]

Mushy gush is needed to combat the cranky priks.

It....works.

 

[IZthe411]

It was that point that I realized that SJ's are just the dumping ground for any bad behaviors people see. That and the fact that other types act the same exact way (or even sometimes more exaggerated versions) but people just ignore that.

Yeah you are right...

N>Se>Si in that order.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

hah! My mother always says that but never actually does it. (Not saying that's the case with you.)

Lol, I have an ESFP friend that has the issue of not ignoring people. I've told her repeatedly that if someone doesn't like her to just let it go and not question it to death.

Well there are a few possibilities.

1. The ESFJs on here want to fit in (SJ style), so will not affirm anything that will alienate their species from the predominantly NT/F MBTI forum.

2. The "different" ESFJs want to point out THEIR atypical ESFJ tendencies, whereas the typical ones reading won't bother, as their love of frilliness has been established already, and affirming it with personal anecdote would be redundant.

3. A different brand of ESFJs lurk this site. And the OP was referring to the average, everyday ones who (s)he encounters.

4. You're mistyped.

Stereotypes are stereotypes, but they exist for a reason. MOST of the ESFJs I knew were hellbent on mushy gush. Not all, but most. And I previously spoke in sweeping generalities, because it's simply easier to write like that than to have to constantly say, "Well, this doesn't apply to ALL ESFJs, but MANY of the ones I know yada yada yada yay".

The older I get the more introverted I seem to get... So it's possible that I am mistyped... Or was an ESFJ, but as I age I get more and more ISFJ like instead. Then again, my mom is an INFJ...Oh God, am I turning into my mother?

And on the "different brand of ESFJs," I think that could be possible... Look how few ESFJs are on any forum... That could be an indication of the difference in the two.

 

[Saslou]

*Cracks knuckles Chuck Norris style

It's so ironic that in some threads you see where people talk about how far ESFJs will go to avoid conflict, and then this one has an ESFJ that was involved in a screaming incident. Sheesh, what are we bipolar!?

What you've never been asked if you're bipolar??? I have

Anyway, you can't be, it's an N thing apparently

It was that point that I realized that SJ's are just the dumping ground for any bad behaviors people see. That and the fact that other types act the same exact way (or even sometimes more exaggerated versions) but people just ignore that.

The big bad SJ's. The evil, manipulative, soul destroying SJ's .. Shit, i wish i could take me seriously, lol

Well there are a few possibilities.

1. The ESFJs on here want to fit in (SJ style), so will not affirm anything that will alienate their species from the predominantly NT/F MBTI forum.

2. The "different" ESFJs want to point out THEIR atypical ESFJ tendencies, whereas the typical ones reading won't bother, as their love of frilliness has been established already, and affirming it with personal anecdote would be redundant.

3. A different brand of ESFJs lurk this site. And the OP was referring to the average, everyday ones who (s)he encounters.

4. You're mistyped.

Stereotypes are stereotypes, but they exist for a reason. MOST of the ESFJs I knew were hellbent on mushy gush. Not all, but most. And I previously spoke in sweeping generalities, because it's simply easier to write like that than to have to constantly say, "Well, this doesn't apply to ALL ESFJs, but MANY of the ones I know yada yada yada yay".

1 - Why the fuck would i want to fit in .. I'm me, either you love it or hate it.

2 - Frilliness???

3 - Different brands .. Lmao

4 - Maybe we're all mistyped .. We see only what we want to see .. That's the beauty and the sorrow of self perception

The older I get the more introverted I seem to get... So it's possible that I am mistyped... Or was an ESFJ, but as I age I get more and more ISFJ like instead. Then again, my mom is an INFJ...Oh God, am I turning into my mother?

And on the "different brand of ESFJs," I think that could be possible... Look how few ESFJs are on any forum... That could be an indication of the difference in the two.

Me, my mum and step sister are all ESFJ to varying degrees .. My mum is the perfect hostess whereas me and my sister are not .. I'm the only one who enjoys debating, reading and discussing possibly plausible theories with my step dad (ENFJ) whereas they both have no interests at all and prefer to watch TV .. My mum is a big spender who buys lavish items .. My sister thinks she has a huge budget whereas i really don't care about my surroundings and buy on a budget even though my actual budget could afford me many luxuries .. I had to bug them to take the test and was not really surprised with the outcome .. Although i love them to bits, sometimes you can't argue logic with them, lol.

 

[Giggly]

It....works.

I can vomit too.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

I can vomit too.

Tee hee, Are xSFJs the only ones that can vomit rainbows?

 

[mrcockburn]

Tee hee, Are xSFJs the only ones that can vomit rainbows?

Hell no.

Exhibit A:

MrCockburn's toilet bowl the morning after a night of drinking cosmopolitans, hotdogs, nachos, blueberry pie and wheatgrass juice.

 

[nozflubber]

actually on looking at this again, i think protean's/other's dubiousness on this is very warranted .....


I only say so now because this behavior described seems to remind me of a certain ENFP on the boards around lately, and other "unhealthy" ENFP behavior... when they're out to get someone, it sticks, and sticks hard.

if you can gain better confirmation of her type as ESFJ, i'd say stick with my advice and mrcockman's here. If she's a different type, any advice given will have to be modified.

is she religious? if she has pets, how does she talk about her affection for them?

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

is she religious? if she has pets, how does she talk about her affection for them?

Where you going with this? Huh? Huh? You saying ESFJs are all crazy nutty pet lovers? Because if you are... You are probably right.

What can I say... I love my kitties...sometimes more than people I know.

 

[nozflubber]

Where you going with this? Huh? Huh? You saying ESFJs are all crazy nutty pet lovers? Because if you are... You are probably right.

What can I say... I love my kitties...sometimes more than people I know.

often times yes but its more than that fact.... its how one talks about a loved one, even a pet, that can give away type. I hypothesize that a typical ESFJ pet lover would go into incredible details about their pets (what makes them sick etc, caretaker details), whereas an ENFP would be more likely to say one or two sweet sentences about their sentiments.(enfps bore easily and dont want to bore others in kind)

to me typing people usually isnt about facts/details about their life like career choice or pets, its HOW they express things that gives them away (and im not referring to the cog functions there. Its about animus, not those silly cog functions)

 

[amazingdatagirl]

Geez, didn't realize that I was stirring up such a Fe-Si shit storm with this thread.

Another thing is even if you've had no interaction with her, this person could feel you don't like her. Feel your antipathy and disdain (you've communicated that even through this thread) and could be responding to that. For example, it can go like this: you see her in the hall and you avert your eyes and turn up your nose a bit. Your lips tighten. While some people are oblivious to these little body language communications, others read them loud and clear. You know she has a reputation and you feel wary of her because of it. She may be sensing it and is responding in kind.

I may be a hardcore introvert but I do have some manners. I make a point of doing the social niceties when I see people in the hall or breakroom. Sorry excessive chit chat, malicious gossip, and silly practical jokes have no appeal for me.

However, before I can give you any specific advice, you need to clarify how she's causing problems. The details matter.

Since you asked... I think that her animosity may be related to my salary. This is a small office and payroll information is not as confidential as it should be. I make more money than she does. This woman has started making remarks about my "expensive tastes". Funniest one - she goes on and on about my expensive makeup ($12 lipstick from Walmart). Most days I walk into office looking like an unmade bed. With smudgey lipstick.

Her comments are always tacked onto a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. Hi, how are you? Wow, those are expensive earrings. Wish I could afford something like that. We've worked in the same building for 3 yrs and suddenly every conversation includes a comment about my spending habits?

She makes no secret of her money problems (new car, nice house, teenage son who deserves the best of everything). My lifestyle is so frugal that her comments border on the ridiculous (my lipstick???).

Since this is a small office, avoiding her is not an option. Petty, verbal annoyances aren't serious enough to warrant a complaint to her manager. I am afraid that I will be provoked into an open confrontation with this woman (don't mess with the little deaf girl).

 

[LotsOfHeart]

It's funny because I've been in a similar situation before.

I had someone I knew at work who was almost certainly an ESFJ female (an extrovert for sure, definitely sensing...I don't see how she could be a thinker and was definitely judging). It was odd because she seemed to kind of decide she disliked me for no apparent reason. Perhaps we had gotten off on the wrong foot as our interactions were awkward from the beginning, however I was never intentionally disrespectful or mean to the point of deserving to be insulted or treated like crap.

It was odd because she was well-behaved enough to be okay when others were around, but if authorities were not there, she would be flat-out insulting, and purposefully so; very direct about it. Of course, the natural instinct would indeed be to insult back, but when you're on the job, what can you do? These kinds of people are often experts at making it look like the confrontation is YOUR fault, no matter how obvious it may seem that it's theirs. I couldn't afford to be fired.

The biggest irony is that when this person first came to the job (before she was acting like a complete a$$hole), I actually might've saved her from being fired. One of my higher-ups was telling me he was thinking of firing this person and asked my opinion. I did not want to be responsible for the firing of another person though I had a bad feeling about this person (I am very against backstabbing and it comes back to haunt you), so I graciously dodged the question. If I had supported him, he may have fired her. Darn! I'm sure if she could've gotten me fired, she'd have done it in a second!

I think you have to do a combination of ignoring and laying down the law when appropriate. These people tend to step over the line so far that it becomes so obvious it's their fault that you can check them. For example, I eventually told this person, "I'm not sure what is driving you to act this way, but I would like to believe it is good intentions." After that, the person left me alone. I eventually stopped working at this job because of a combination of reasons that these incidents may have had some to do with, but not the only problem by any means.

Later on, I worked with this person again and she actually hugged me and acted really happy to see me. It was weird. As of today, we're on okay terms, though I still can't stand being in this probable ESFJs presence. Of course, it's nothing to do with type really, just avoiding a really unhealthy, narcissistic person. I'm happy in my current job which has a minimum of that behavior (thank God).

People who act like that person are passive aggressive wimps at heart. They might talk a good game but they're little babies on the inside, who cry if they don't get their way.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

Interesting, both people in this thread that have had an issue with ESFJs in the work place have been INFJs... INFJs are the one type that ruffle my feathers. However, I'm really non confrontational, so when people ruffle my feathers I tend to just ignore them.

My mom is an INFJ, and me and her have totally different thought processes. We also bicker like cats and dogs. More like a cat and dog forced to share the same cage... There's just something about our personalities that brings the worst out in each other. However, at the same time, when we are both in good moods we bring the best out in each other too.

The last INFJ that I had major problems with made it a point to constantly give me unwanted/unnecessary advice on what I was doing wrong in my life. She was also one of those types of people that was never wrong. Even when multiple people could prove that she was wrong, she refused to admit it... I eventually just stopped communicating with her altogether and moved on with my life. Since then I've met a few INFJs that I've had much better interactions with... They still know how to ruffle my feathers though.