[ISTJ] ISTJ female = often act (or perceived to act) like a male?

[niki]

is it?

I've always felt that.
because now my current girlfriend is an ISTJ (I've mbti-tested her before). and the description of "The Inspector" & other descriptions fits her well.

and I think it's due to her having hard time (even almost none) showing her emotions (as a girl) , and that she's so silent about emotional-things, yet very practical & straightforward in daily-life practical matters, that I often tease her of being more like a guy.

even I (as INFP) often get teased by her to be more like female than male!
maybe due to my very emotional, easily get touched even by simplest-little things surroundings that other 'normal' folks won't notice, me being wishy-washy, etc.

Another similar case is my staff here in my furniture-office.
I haven't tested her, but i'm pretty darn sure she's either ISTJ or ESTJ, and she's also very very straighforward, in work/job related things. and she likes cars/mechanics , that her friends (she told me this) often tease her of being more like a male, than female!
but it's NOT that she doesn't have 'feelings' or emotional-side!
heck, she's also the only person that can 'emotional-talk' with me when it comes to music, or certain particular song (outside the work-setting)!

what do u think?
can anybody (any ISTJ) relate ?

 

[Totenkindly]

... my current girlfriend is an ISTJ (I've mbti-tested her before). and the description of "The Inspector" & other descriptions fits her well.

and I think it's due to her having hard time (even almost none) showing her emotions (as a girl) , and that she's so silent about emotional-things, yet very practical & straightforward in daily-life practical matters, that I often tease her of being more like a guy.

Does she deal okay with the joking? The females ISTJ types I've known in real life do have some traditionally masculine qualities... but they also have a female self-image and definitely have the particularlity that females can show (even in regards to how the family should be managed and the home maintained). I wonder how much of the joking they can tolerate on the surface but inside it impacts their self-esteem. (I really don't know the answer to that.)... especially in SJ mentality, where one more easily gravitates towards the social norm as the baseline for how someone should behave.

 

[Deva]

...I think it's due to her having hard time (even almost none) showing her emotions (as a girl) , and that she's so silent about emotional-things, yet very practical & straightforward in daily-life practical matters, that I often tease her of being more like a guy.
<edit>
even I (as INFP) often get teased by her to be more like female than male!
maybe due to my very emotional, easily get touched even by simplest-little things surroundings that other 'normal' folks won't notice, me being wishy-washy, etc.
<edit>
can anybody (any ISTJ) relate ?

Yes I can relate. I don't find myself have a whole lot in common with my female co-workers -- I don't care for a lot of emotion being shown, and I don't show a lot of my feelings myself. My exterior is usally calm cool and collected. I am also not crazy about children. I don't have much "mothering" instinct, no children of my own and I don't understand the attraction.

Usually women are more interested in "keeping in touch", sending cards to family, presents, etc. It just slips my mind sometimes and I usually just do it out of a sense of obligation. That kind of stuff really doesn't mean much to me. I see myself as much less social than most women (and a lot of men too). I am very introverted. I just don't need a lot of people around me and am extremely independent.

As far as joking goes, I am not crazy about jokesters generally. If I get to a certain level of trust with someone and the jokes are clever - so much the better. I like a good sense of humor in my friends and like to be around people who don't take life so seriously.

My best friend is an INFJ.

 

[Hirsch63]

Deva it is really great to have a female perspective on our "preferences". I can tell you that I agree with what you cited as applicable to myself. I've been wanting to learn more about these things, as I am new to it and your post gives me some additional insight, Thanks!

 

[Recoleta]

Yes, Deva...it's nice to have another female ISTJ around. I find much of what you said to be true with me as well.

For me, I've always been that girl that had more guy friends than girl friends (guys are easier to deal with and have much less drama going on). Guys have told me that I'm easy to talk to because I am always direct in my opinions about things (which is great for friendships, but not so great for romance). You always get stuck in that "Yeah, she's cool, but she's just a friend" trap.

When it comes to the emotional side, that stuff is difficult for me to express outloud. I have found the emotional side comes much easier in the company of an emotional guy because seeing them be emotionally vulnerable makes me more comfortable about being vulnerable. My ENFJ guy friend is wonderful for getting me out of my shell and dealing with emotions. However, when I am with my INTJ guy friend, the emotional side almost never comes out because neither of us want to be vulnerable and neither of us are very self-disclosing.

One last thing I have noticed is that it is hard for me to get along well with most other girls. I would bet that about 80% of my female friends are T's (likely XXTJ's), and I can not stand to be around girls that "dumb themselves down" when they are around guys...I think that that is ridiculous. So to answer your OP Niki, yes, I find that in many situations I come across with rather male tendencies.

However, I do like to be treated like a lady, and despite the fact that I am not terribly touchy-feely I do enjoy physical affection from the right people...and I can quite enjoy emotional stuff (so long as the other person takes the initiative to pull me out of my comfort zone).

 

[girlnamedbless]

I have a close ISTJ friend and she is definitely a tomboy. She walks around in sweats and has her hair up all the time. She knows how to change oil and tires, etc. She doesn't like to show her emotions at all and is a tough girl, but it comes out at the right moments and times. I've known her for four years, so I know when those times are: during a sappy movie or a late night conversation about life. She's really honest, sarcastic, and blunt, but a very very sweet and caring girl during the right moments. I also think being introverted plays a huge part because she is better at expressing her thoughts through writing than words. So I think the ISTJ just needs the right person to bring out their other side.

 

[LadyJaye]

Yes, Deva...it's nice to have another female ISTJ around. I find much of what you said to be true with me as well.

For me, I've always been that girl that had more guy friends than girl friends (guys are easier to deal with and have much less drama going on). Guys have told me that I'm easy to talk to because I am always direct in my opinions about things (which is great for friendships, but not so great for romance). You always get stuck in that "Yeah, she's cool, but she's just a friend" trap.

When it comes to the emotional side, that stuff is difficult for me to express outloud. I have found the emotional side comes much easier in the company of an emotional guy because seeing them be emotionally vulnerable makes me more comfortable about being vulnerable. My ENFJ guy friend is wonderful for getting me out of my shell and dealing with emotions. However, when I am with my INTJ guy friend, the emotional side almost never comes out because neither of us want to be vulnerable and neither of us are very self-disclosing.

One last thing I have noticed is that it is hard for me to get along well with most other girls. I would bet that about 80% of my female friends are T's (likely XXTJ's), and I can not stand to be around girls that "dumb themselves down" when they are around guys...I think that that is ridiculous. So to answer your OP Niki, yes, I find that in many situations I come across with rather male tendencies.

However, I do like to be treated like a lady, and despite the fact that I am not terribly touchy-feely I do enjoy physical affection from the right people...and I can quite enjoy emotional stuff (so long as the other person takes the initiative to pull me out of my comfort zone).

Wow, I read this and completely related, and we're opposite types! My twin sister and I have worked in male dominated fields for years ( mechanic and welder, respectively ), and we find it easier in general to deal with men than women. Of course, women that have real sense of themselves are fantastic and all of my female friends have a concrete identity, so there's no strange competitive weirdness, or having to apologize for every little thing that could be perceived as an insensitivity. But we also very much enjoy looking ladylike and being treated like women. Perhaps people, especially other women, are intimidated by the straight forward manner of an ISTJ woman, and mistakenly perceive it as male energy, when really, it's just strength.

 

[INTJMom]

is it?

I've always felt that.
because now my current girlfriend is an ISTJ (I've mbti-tested her before). and the description of "The Inspector" & other descriptions fits her well.

and I think it's due to her having hard time (even almost none) showing her emotions (as a girl) , and that she's so silent about emotional-things, yet very practical & straightforward in daily-life practical matters, that I often tease her of being more like a guy.

even I (as INFP) often get teased by her to be more like female than male!
maybe due to my very emotional, easily get touched even by simplest-little things surroundings that other 'normal' folks won't notice, me being wishy-washy, etc.

Another similar case is my staff here in my furniture-office.
I haven't tested her, but i'm pretty darn sure she's either ISTJ or ESTJ, and she's also very very straighforward, in work/job related things. and she likes cars/mechanics , that her friends (she told me this) often tease her of being more like a male, than female!
but it's NOT that she doesn't have 'feelings' or emotional-side!
heck, she's also the only person that can 'emotional-talk' with me when it comes to music, or certain particular song (outside the work-setting)!

what do u think?
can anybody (any ISTJ) relate ?

My daughter is an ISTJ and is very much like you described, but I don't think of her as being like a guy. She wears nice clothes, fixes her hair, and paints her toenails. I was a lot more of a tomboy than she ever was. She is who she is.

Frankly, I'm thankful I didn't have to deal with feelings crises all the time when she was growing up. She's level-headed and reasonable, and I really appreciate that about her.

If that other person were an ESTJ they would be running the office. They have a way of creating chaos and convincing the owner that they should be put in charge because they know how to fix it.

ISTJ and INFP make a good combination, by the way. I am aware of many such combos.

 

[marm]

My mom is ISTJ.

She isn't unfeminine, but she isn't obsessed with being feminine. She mostly wears jeans, but she puts some effort into looking nice. She isn't emotionally effusive except she does show her annoyance very clearly. She is very blunt and this can offend some people.

She has had numerous female friends, but she used to hang out with a retired men's group for breakfast. She doesn't get along with many women, and can feel excluded by other women. She can be kind of a loner.

She is very traditionally feminine in lots of ways though. She is a mother of 3 and had a very strong maternal streak. She does most of the cooking, cleaning, and decorating. She is very interested in people in general and she likes trying to understand people(tertiary Fi?). She appreciates family and friends. She spends a fair amount of time staying in contact with people. She has a long list of people she sends Christmas cards to every year.

She isn't extremely prone to humor. But because my dad has a weird sense of humor, she has learned to detect subtle humor. She doesn't mind being picked on in a humorous manner as long as its lighthearted.

 

[Taberculosis]

I have like, no girl friends. A total of 4. And two of them are lesbians? So naturally people questioned my sexuality when i was with them.

I could never be a sorority girl because I would go insane.

However, I do like expensive shoes and purses and skin care products but I just consider that being a consumer-whore.

My boyfriend and I clash on the fact that he wants a family and I really do not like kids. They scare me and I am just not the nurturing type.

I am not close to anyone in my family (immediate or extended) so I'm somewhat of a Black Sheep.... I like my family, I just can't seem to get on their "level" and have small talk.

And I'm the second person in my whole family to get a college degree so maybe that explains some of the differences too....

 

[ArbiterDewey]

Being a male ISTJ, I don't necessarily think we portray "masculinity" over "femininity," more so that we have a more neutral outlook towards everything. We analyze and use logic more often than emotion and spontaneity (not to say our feelings cannot be hurt.) Either way, I don't know any female ISTJ's in rl so I can't really form a solid opinion on such.

A specific example I have from my therapy is that I'm not emotionally dumb inside. No, I feel emotion, I just don't express it in my language (which I have been consciously working on, although difficult.) Be around an ENFP at any time, and you will hear the emotional language right away: they hate/love/are pissed off at/appreciate/are flattered by/etc. and so forth a lot.

My outlook on kids is the opposite of some of the above posters. I want them. Preferably a little girl, if I could choose. Might be because I was raised by independent females (mother and grandmother) and had a brother. It might be a personal preference. Either way, I attract children and animals like flies to s***, lol (which I hear is a good thing concerning character.)

One phrase I really enjoy is "calm, cool, and collected" (thanks, Deva.) It defines the general attitude/mindset that I portray 99% of the time. I am rarely ever facially expressive.

Another thing, about keeping in touch. I really never do, most of my friends call me. Occasionally I'll send the random text message to someone who I haven't spoken to in awhile, but if they don't contact me back, it doesn't hurt me at all. Mindless small talk is the bane of my existence, anyway.

Enjoyed posting about this.

 

[Jae Rae]

I volunteer with an ISTJ female - she's been officially tested and the first time we met she brought up the MBTI. She's not especially masculine, but very matter-of-fact and "cool, calm and collected." Usually she talks about taxes, public transportation or some other ordinary part of life.

Last week I admired her earrings and she offered them to me! I thanked her and said no. She said she liked me a lot and then she hugged me. Both of these gestures blew me away. She's in her late 50s, so perhaps she's developed more F over the years?

Jae Rae

 

[littlemissgiggles]

A close friend of mine is ISTJ and she does come across as a bit more masculine. She's a pretty strong introvert and doesn't have the greatest self-esteem, and she simply thinks in practical terms. It's especially obvious in her dress. In general she finds men's clothing more comfortable. Even when she dresses more formally she doesn't wear clothes that are as fitted or low-cut as most women's. I'm inclined to think that it's a self-esteem, not a type thing with her though, although she does seem to take less pleasure in "looking pretty" on special occasions than most girls. She's also way less dramatic, and avoids small talk, so I suppose people might find her more masculine than most because of her appearance and straightforward attitude.

She isn't what I'd call 'masculine' on the inside though. She just doesn't volunteer her feelings about anything unless she's prompted to, and sometimes not even then.

 

[Randomnity]

I think all female Ts share that experience, to varying degrees of course. I certainly have more of a "male" viewpoint than a female one...Most of my friends and all of my close friends are male because they share my mindset, unlike pretty much all of the girls I know.

I don't know any ISTJs, I'm afraid, so I don't have a point for comparison, but I thought I'd share my perspective, anyway.

 

[aeon]

For six years I dated a woman who typed as ISTJ.

In my experience she was feminine, yet not girly, and she expressed emotion well. I had no sense that she concerned herself with those things we might describe as "masculine." She was concerned with the maintenance and function of community institutions such as day-care, grade schools, Girl/Boy Scouts, the public library, and so on. She worked as a fashion illustrator.


cheers,
Ian

 

[arborvitae]

My mom is good friends with my boyfriend's mom, who I'm guessing is an ISTJ.

My boyfriend's mom doesn't use typical conversation cues that many women use, like nodding, smiling, and saying "uh-huh." She's definitely cool, calm, and blunt. My mom said that when they first met, she felt the need to be more "bubbly" to draw out the ISTJ because she didn't communicate expressively like most women. My mom said she acted like she might around a man when she was with my boyfriend's mom.

My boyfriend's mom also isn't very maternal. She didn't want children and felt pressured to have one.

 

[runvardh]

*sigh* that poor great grandmother of mine, I think the only person in the family who can truely handle more than a couple hours with her is my father. Even then, my father is very annoyed by his grandmother's need for Victorian table manners while she's always annoyed when her eldest grandson is eating with chopsticks. The thing that helps is they respect eachother enough to not push eachother on either subject even though both know eachother's problem. Both of them, along with me, are also considered the black sheep of the family - not a surprise, though.

 

[betterthandead]

Yeah, they do not like it if someone is clowning around. I can tell you one thing that I've noticed from ISTJ parents. Is that they got fucked up children. Drugs, getting in trouble with the law, etc. That's what you get when you create rules which provide you security and also make you insecure of people break them.

This is how it's like to grow up in an ISTJ household:

Pot smoking son: I love drugs
ISTJ parent: NO DRUGS! Verbally shouting and angry. DRUGS ARE EVIL YOU ARE EVIL. DO WHAT I SAY OR YOU ARE A EVIL BAD PERSON.
Pot smoking son: I'm going to do cocaine tomorrow. heh heh heh.
Pot smoking son then spends the next 10 years doin Meth, getting HIV, and becoming a gay person.

This is how it's like to grow up in an ISTP household:

Pot smoking son: I love drugs
ISTP parent: really
Pot smoking son: yeah
ISTP parent: let's smoke together.
Pot smoking son: huh? uh okay
ISTP parent: alright, now let's play a drinking game, whoever loses has to clean the house.
Pot smoking son: right on.
***after 5 drinks*
Pot smoking son: oh shit, alright you win.
ISTP: really, you got 3 hours to clean the place. Go on. Yeah, and if you smoke pot, definitely let me join in.
Pot smoking son stops smoking pot and becomes a millionaire pimp.

Does she deal okay with the joking? The females ISTJ types I've known in real life do have some traditionally masculine qualities... but they also have a female self-image and definitely have the particularlity that females can show (even in regards to how the family should be managed and the home maintained). I wonder how much of the joking they can tolerate on the surface but inside it impacts their self-esteem. (I really don't know the answer to that.)... especially in SJ mentality, where one more easily gravitates towards the social norm as the baseline for how someone should behave.

 

[Usehername]

THe two ISTJ females I know (my aunt, a surgeon, and the other was a former teacher) both had these qualities:

*slaved away at professional life and moved high up in the ranks
*extremely musical
*extremely athletic; both competed at high levels (one, university basketball, the other, competitive cyclist)
*extremely compassionate when they recognize a need in someone who didn't put themselves in a bad position but ends up in one due to circumstances; both quietly went out of their way to help people out
*great with "trained" social cues; not so great with picking up the nuances with people's true intentions sometimes. Often misinterpreted body language of the other person in a conversation whenever they are personally overwhelmed. (My aunt talks about my uncle "rolling his eyes" and I babysit a lot so I'm over at their place a lot for dinner, etc., and he can do nothing and have the best of intentions and she still gets mad at him for his "attitude" which she can "sense" and he and I both know she's just overwhelmed because there is genuinely no attitude. Inferior Ne?
*the teacher had good fashion sense but was not a "slave" to fashion; always looked good. My aunt was more unaware of girly things (too busy pwning music, athletics and becoming a high level surgeon to do anything else) and only in the past while has learned how to dress well.
Both are mothers. Both married extraverted feelers.

 

[runvardh]

betterthandead: can you explain to me, then, how a girl born in 1945 grew up under an ISTJ mother yet became an awesome teacher and sat on town counil in the 70s? Her worst "crime" was not marrying a white guy.