[ISFJ] Where my ISFJs at?

[INTJMom]

No, my two are xNTP and ENFx



Ah. Well I'm with you on 'your way', except that I don't find any nice surprises if I take classes. I hate classes, and have responded pretty poorly to formal education for most of my life, both as a kid and as a mature student (mature being a matter of opinion, obviously!).

I find that a 'teach yourself' sorta guidebook works best for me. I can dip into it here and there, do things at my pace (invariably much quicker than a class pace), skip parts, change the order, all as I see fit.

I've an ISTJ close friend who always has to take classes. He wanted to learn Italian so he took a class. I said I wanted to learn Italian too, but refused to join him in the class. He sneered and said he'd do better than me and my haphazard learning method, as he put it.

Ha. In six months I was having conversations with natives about current affairs, while he was still ordering an ensuite room for two and asking for directions. Eat that, mofo!

Classes and structure just frustrate the hell outta me and cause me to lose all motivation; I always wind up quitting them with many hard feelings afoot.

I love learning, but I don't know why I don't like formal education. I guess it's because I don't want to learn a bunch of stuff I won't use. I only want to know what I need to know. Not saying that's the best attitude because it has hindered me.

 

[oasispaw]

hey, just entered this place and I have something in common... I play guitar and sing but no longer in a band boo hoo...

anyways nice to see you all

Sucks not being in a band anymore! I feel your sadness.

 

[Camelopardalis]

My mother is one. I can't say she likes the world wide web though

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

In my basement.

 

[substitute]

My mother is one. I can't say she likes the world wide web though

That's a good point actually... regarding type superlatives, I might say ISFJ is the type least likely to get into the Internet off their own backs, without having taken classes or something in computer literacy... type most likely to be technophobic... I mean, most other Feelers would find the connection/communication opportunities motive enough to figure it out, and they would figure it out as they go, but I've a feeling that many ISFJ's would a) not be the 'figure it out as you go' type, and b) not be as keen on using it for the communication angle. The time they spend away from other people in RL, they'd probably not want to spend talking to 'strangers' online.

Just a theory. Not an opinion or anything, I mean I just came up with it off the top of my head ffs, so don't shoot me down for holding stereotyped, generalized prejudices etc etc... lol

 

[INTJMom]

I had an ISFJ friend who was very puzzling to me because whenever she bought some new piece of technology it had to be the biggest, best, most powerful, etc., so she always had the coolest toys, but she wasn't all that adept at using them.

 

[substitute]

I had an ISFJ friend who was very puzzling to me because whenever she bought some new piece of technology it had to be the biggest, best, most powerful, etc., so she always had the coolest toys, but she wasn't all that adept at using them.

My ISTJ friend is the same - it's because whenever he buys anything, he has to get instructions on how to buy it, so he gets the consumer advice articles and stuff and gets whatever they recommend, so he knows he's got the Right One (even if it's ridiculously over-spec for his requirements)

And there's me, improvising stuff with bits of string and paperclips... lol

 

[Jae Rae]

Type is a continuum. There are INTPs with strong Feeling, ENTPs who need a lot of downtime and ISFJs who embrace technology.

As for mothers and the world wide web, many older people are shy around technology. For years my INTP boss, who was in his 50s, avoided learning how to use the computer and stuck to his IBM Selectric and the telephone.

My ISFJ friends use email and answer regularly, make airline reservations, send flowers and bank online, etc. In my experience, there are other folks less likely to use email. My ESP friends (who aren't on this forum) are the ones most likely not to answer emails, and they tell me they don't check very often - less than once a week. Some people would rather talk in person or on the phone than send an email.

And I agree that some people, not just ISFJs, might choose to interact with people they know rather than strangers online in a forum. But others open up to those they don't know. I've shared one or two things on this forum that few of my friends know.

The problem I see is when the question arises Why aren't there more ISFJs? The usual answer is that ISFJs don't like technology, or as expressed above, can't figure it all out. That response sounds dismissive to me and quite possibly puts off other ISFJs.

In any case, it's a stereotype, just like all INTPs have perfect grammar.

Jae Rae

 

[Ivy]

Totally agree with Jae Rae- the ISFJs I know are as tech-savvy as they need to be, and no more or less. It's very much a tool to them, and if they need a social tool they'll use it that way. Otherwise not. It's my ESxP friends who have never bothered to sign up for email or surf the web. My impression is that they would consider it a distraction from real, 3-D interactions and engagements.

 

[substitute]

I didn't mean to sound dismissive Jae Rae, and I did say it wasn't my opinion but just a random thought I had come to me, which I expressed to see what others would make of it, since I didn't make much of it myself. That's the way Ne dominants work...

I wasn't saying "no ISFJ's use computers and they're all useless bimbos". I'm just saying that each type has higher probabilities of certain inclinations, and taking the function order that's given for ISFJ, it seems more likely that they would

a) be female (thereby, not exactly excluded but less encouraged by society to take part in 'sciences'), which is true of any F type (true as in a truly higher probability, not 'always the case')

b) prefer to stick to what they know, rather than try new things,

c) be apprehensive of trying something new without supervision from someone who knew the territory - both natural aspects of having Si as a dominant function.

d) as introverts, be less hungry for human interaction than their extraverted Feeling and SJ cousins, and therefore less likely to put the effort into overcoming an apprehension towards the unknown and a general lower level of confidence with improvising, to participate in Internet communities

e) as introverted feelers, be more likely to have a few RL close friends that are all the social life they want and need, as opposed to introverted thinkers who often find social bonding and making friends more difficult and/or have even less need for it (even if they only think they have less need for it).

I hope this clarifies to you that I wasn't generalizing or dismissing, but just extrapolating from the theory of MBTI and the function attitudes. Even so I still want to labour the point that this is ALL it is to me, and not my own personal opinion. I have no opinion on the matter, as I don't have enough info to make one.

edit - and yes, the ISFJ I know is exactly as tech-savvy as she needs to be. That is, she knows how to operate the computer system in her office in order to do the things that her job entails; she can use her cellphone, or the features of it that are of use to her. But if I were to ask her how to do something that's never come up in her line of work, or that she'd never thought about before, I know for certain (and from experience) that she'd be more likely to say "Well, I don't know, you'll have to ask someone else" - she'd be able to tell me exactly where to find the information, but she wouldn't say, "Well, I dunno, but let's see, if you open the... and click on... then it should... oh wait, hang on, no, okay let's try... ah, that's it", she wouldn't just improvise and figure it out on the spot, like I do all the time.

That's not prejudice, that's simple type theory. Si is a 'stick to what you know and work outwards slowly' function, whilst my dominant is Ne, which is a 'dive right in and figure it out as you go' function. My head is choc-full of info that I've never had any personal need of and possibly never will, from times when I've just tried and tested and experimented 'just to see'. I never know 'just as much as I need' - within minutes of the supervisor turning their back, I'm tinkering away and figuring out more stuff because I'm quite simply, insatiably curious.

 

[CzeCze]

Alas, her brief time online is usually spent surfing government sites containing public records so she can find out about the people she knows. She navigates those suckers like a fish in water.

Haha -- that is very telling!

:edit: I read through all the responses

In terms of classes and learning, I know we're talking about ISFJ but someone mentioned similarities in terms of sturctured learning wtih ISXJ.

I think the differences between my ISTJ friend and myself are textbook type differences.

She takes classes to master things and she really hits the books and accomplishes all the goals of the class. Me? Honestly I'm likely to drop the class 1/2 way or lose interest or give up on it (like ceramics...wrestling with the potter's wheel is not fun and I didn't bother picking up my deformed and shameful little ashtray from the kiln)

She's very technical minded, to the point she's been added to the 'help desk' list-serv at work and the IT people include her on e-mails and assume she knows as much as they do. Also, I had a plasma flat screen TV for about a year and never figured out how to get over the air channels on it. She fiddled with it for about 15 minutes and got the channels up! I asked her how she did it and she refused to tell me and told me to read the manual. Personally, I didn't care I was just happy to have the channels up.

She also went to Spain and Italy to learn the respective languages and did a pretty good job immersing herself. She's much more likely to be hanging out with friends, travelling, biking, or even watching tv than on an online forum. I think she would probably find a 'social' (versus technical) forum pointless and unentertaining unless she was having trouble meeting specific groups of people IRL. Though she did start her own e-mail list to keep track of goings on and events amongst a larger circle of people.

I know, it's anecdotal, but FWIW.

 

[INTJMom]

...
I asked her how she did it and she refused to tell me and told me to read the manual. Personally, I didn't care I was just happy to have the channels up.
...

Perhaps she said that because that's what she had to do.

 

[JustDave]

I didn't mean to sound dismissive Jae Rae, and I did say it wasn't my opinion but just a random thought I had come to me, which I expressed to see what others would make of it, since I didn't make much of it myself. That's the way Ne dominants work...

I wasn't saying "no ISFJ's use computers and they're all useless bimbos". I'm just saying that each type has higher probabilities of certain inclinations, and taking the function order that's given for ISFJ, it seems more likely that they would

a) be female (thereby, not exactly excluded but less encouraged by society to take part in 'sciences'), which is true of any F type (true as in a truly higher probability, not 'always the case')

b) prefer to stick to what they know, rather than try new things,

c) be apprehensive of trying something new without supervision from someone who knew the territory - both natural aspects of having Si as a dominant function.

d) as introverts, be less hungry for human interaction than their extraverted Feeling and SJ cousins, and therefore less likely to put the effort into overcoming an apprehension towards the unknown and a general lower level of confidence with improvising, to participate in Internet communities

e) as introverted feelers, be more likely to have a few RL close friends that are all the social life they want and need, as opposed to introverted thinkers who often find social bonding and making friends more difficult and/or have even less need for it (even if they only think they have less need for it).

I hope this clarifies to you that I wasn't generalizing or dismissing, but just extrapolating from the theory of MBTI and the function attitudes. Even so I still want to labour the point that this is ALL it is to me, and not my own personal opinion. I have no opinion on the matter, as I don't have enough info to make one.

edit - and yes, the ISFJ I know is exactly as tech-savvy as she needs to be. That is, she knows how to operate the computer system in her office in order to do the things that her job entails; she can use her cellphone, or the features of it that are of use to her. But if I were to ask her how to do something that's never come up in her line of work, or that she'd never thought about before, I know for certain (and from experience) that she'd be more likely to say "Well, I don't know, you'll have to ask someone else" - she'd be able to tell me exactly where to find the information, but she wouldn't say, "Well, I dunno, but let's see, if you open the... and click on... then it should... oh wait, hang on, no, okay let's try... ah, that's it", she wouldn't just improvise and figure it out on the spot, like I do all the time.

That's not prejudice, that's simple type theory. Si is a 'stick to what you know and work outwards slowly' function, whilst my dominant is Ne, which is a 'dive right in and figure it out as you go' function. My head is choc-full of info that I've never had any personal need of and possibly never will, from times when I've just tried and tested and experimented 'just to see'. I never know 'just as much as I need' - within minutes of the supervisor turning their back, I'm tinkering away and figuring out more stuff because I'm quite simply, insatiably curious.

I agree with your points. I work with a lot (20+) of former mainframe programmers that are at least twice my age (I'm 26) and whom I suspect are Guardians. Most of them maintain our legacy systems and their skills within their respective systems are second to none. Sadly many of them are very reluctant to work on new systems and when they do so, it is which much trepidation.

 

[cascadeco]

edit - and yes, the ISFJ I know is exactly as tech-savvy as she needs to be. That is, she knows how to operate the computer system in her office in order to do the things that her job entails; she can use her cellphone, or the features of it that are of use to her. But if I were to ask her how to do something that's never come up in her line of work, or that she'd never thought about before, I know for certain (and from experience) that she'd be more likely to say "Well, I don't know, you'll have to ask someone else" - she'd be able to tell me exactly where to find the information, but she wouldn't say, "Well, I dunno, but let's see, if you open the... and click on... then it should... oh wait, hang on, no, okay let's try... ah, that's it", she wouldn't just improvise and figure it out on the spot, like I do all the time.

That's not prejudice, that's simple type theory. Si is a 'stick to what you know and work outwards slowly' function, whilst my dominant is Ne, which is a 'dive right in and figure it out as you go' function. My head is choc-full of info that I've never had any personal need of and possibly never will, from times when I've just tried and tested and experimented 'just to see'. I never know 'just as much as I need' - within minutes of the supervisor turning their back, I'm tinkering away and figuring out more stuff because I'm quite simply, insatiably curious.

Well, perhaps this is true, but I can also say that I've given similar responses to people who ask questions of me at work! It really depends on the situation. Sometimes, I'll try to help them out. But other times, if I have a lot of other stuff going on and feel pressed for time, and genuinely don't know the answer, I have no problem saying I don't know, and directing them to someone I know who DOES know the answer, and would be able to provide the answer much quicker than I would be able to. I'll do that over work email too. If I don't know the answer, I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure it out if I already know someone who would know the answer instantaneously.

I have become good friends with an ISFJ coworker who fulfills the same job role as I, and she serves as an interesting comparison to me. She's certainly very competant, good at the job, and very trustworthy, thorough, and dependable - which are traits that are *really* desirable (and rather rare) on the job, especially if you need to work together. However, we do approach the job differently, and while we're quite similar with Fe/emotions, the Ni and Si difference does become apparent on the job. She has told me personally that she envies my being able to pull a lot of stuff together to pinpoint the root issues when she gets bogged down with the details, and that sometimes I'll say stuff in meetings and she'll think, 'Wow, why didn't I see that?', or something similar...so I feel like the technical/systems aspects and all of the testing scenarios come more *naturally* to me than to her, even though she can do it all too - it just might take her more time. And I think I'm able to juggle and multitask and ride through system/project/etc changes a bit easier than she. On the other hand, she is much much better keeping things organized and documenting things. We balanced each other really well when it was just us two on a project last year.

 

[Dizzy]

Reporting in

Another ISTJ reporting in, go ahead and challenge my logic :hi:

 

[Maverick]

Another ISTJ reporting in, go ahead and challenge my logic :hi:

OK, this isn't the ISTJ thread, it's the ISFJ thread

 

[Dizzy]

OK, this isn't the ISTJ thread, it's the ISFJ thread

Whoops you just challenged it

 

[Tallulah]

My roommate is an ISFJ, and she spends tons of time on the internet. But she's not interested in MBTI at all. She'll politely listen to me talk about it, and she took the test to humor me. But she just doesn't really see the point in it all. She likes to IM, and she is way more likely to update on sites like facebook, myspace, etc, than I am. She's a member of a few forum sites, usually related to music or tv shows she's into.

I think there are just certain types that are interested in MBTI and other types for whom it holds no interest. It's a shame, b/c I love to have MBTI discussions with other types.

 

[pure_mercury]

I am an ESFJ. I am trying to imagine what an Introvert version of myself would be like, and I've got nothing. Probably a smart, determined person who has a better idea of when to keep his/her mouth shut than I have. Welcome, fellow SFJs!

 

[meanlittlechimp]

My gf got her older sister, an ISFJ, into mbti. She is into it and is a full believer but is far too busy taking care of the myriad of responsibilities she puts on her self through work (corporate lawyer) and aiding all her friends and family members with whatever they need (or she thinks they need).

One of the sweetest people you could ever meet (but I have a thing for IXFJs).