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[ISFJ] Where my ISFJs at?

substitute

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Well actually, I'll bet that since theorists SEEM overrepresented on forums, I'll guess that people here most often falsly identify as intiution and thinking preferences. (And when I say falsely, I MEAN it. This is why, when I talk about the "types" on this thread, I always say "self-identifying ___s". Really, I think the actual type representation here would be incredibly different from the self-identification)

I agree... it's funny how the questionnaires and stuff seem to focus on 'profficiency with theory' as a defining N factor - and also funny how that gets equated to intelligence in some people's minds. I have an ISTJ friend who lives and breathes calculus and theoretical physics, and an ISFJ friend who has a degree in Classical philosophy and diplomas in Latin and Greek. They are both definitely Sensors, without a doubt, though, and their behaviour and interaction has Si stamped all over it.
 

INTJMom

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My mother is a highly intelligent ISTJ. She has spent her life reading history, archaeology, etc. She even reads encyclopedias. I never had to look anything up when I was a kid. I could always just ask my mother.
 

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One other thing, I know a couple of ISFJ's and they're both quite timid things. By ENTP standards, anyway (which, since we're so in-yer-face and uberassertive, doesn't mean much...). They're absolutely averse to any conflict at all, and really don't like confrontations and will shy away from them and go to great lengths avoid them.

This being an NT dominated board, and NT's being really into arguing and causing trouble for the hell of it, and generally pretty forthright with their opinions, I can imagine many ISFJ's finding it all a bit unnecessarily 'nasty'. Not that I think it really is nasty, but I can imagine the ones I know thinking it is. In the British sense of the word 'nasty' that is, which is closer to when Americans say 'mean' or 'horrid'.

One of the ISFJ's I know, when I first met her I was at a wedding reception. I was the same drunken, boisterous, loud and obnoxious party animal I always am at those sorts of events, and whilst most people think I'm great fun (and that's why they invite me), it really scared her off. It took me a year, best part of, to sorta coax her round to approaching me and stuff. To start with I thought she just hated me and thought I was stupid or rude or whatever - it really tickled me when I found out it was all because I scared her at that party with how boisterous I can be. So I made a concerted effort after learning that, to 'reach' her and prove that I don't bite.

I know INT's aren't necessarily boisterous or whatever, but in intellectual terms, on the Internet, I think INT's more than equate to the often larger than life image that ENT's often create in real life.

And yeah, that might put a lot of ISFJ's off.

Just a thought.
 

prplchknz

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One other thing, I know a couple of ISFJ's and they're both quite timid things. By ENTP standards, anyway (which, since we're so in-yer-face and uberassertive, doesn't mean much...). They're absolutely averse to any conflict at all, and really don't like confrontations and will shy away from them and go to great lengths avoid them.

This being an NT dominated board, and NT's being really into arguing and causing trouble for the hell of it, and generally pretty forthright with their opinions, I can imagine many ISFJ's finding it all a bit unnecessarily 'nasty'. Not that I think it really is nasty, but I can imagine the ones I know thinking it is. In the British sense of the word 'nasty' that is, which is closer to when Americans say 'mean' or 'horrid'.

One of the ISFJ's I know, when I first met her I was at a wedding reception. I was the same drunken, boisterous, loud and obnoxious party animal I always am at those sorts of events, and whilst most people think I'm great fun (and that's why they invite me), it really scared her off. It took me a year, best part of, to sorta coax her round to approaching me and stuff. To start with I thought she just hated me and thought I was stupid or rude or whatever - it really tickled me when I found out it was all because I scared her at that party with how boisterous I can be. So I made a concerted effort after learning that, to 'reach' her and prove that I don't bite.

I know INT's aren't necessarily boisterous or whatever, but in intellectual terms, on the Internet, I think INT's more than equate to the often larger than life image that ENT's often create in real life.

And yeah, that might put a lot of ISFJ's off.

Just a thought.

my isfj friends hates arguing more then me and I don't like it too begin with. She's the nicest person I have met, but people walk all over her, and often times don't realize she has really high moral standards. She's not preachy just wants to do the right thing and wishes other people would do the same, but she realizes alot won't. She's so nice, and she listens she's one of my few friends who lets me complain of course I let her do the same. I wish more people were like her. She is never in your face. The few times she has stood up for herself she ended up feeling guilty
 

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Yes, I think that's where the whole martyr thing comes from... the one I know puts up with endless amounts of crap from people, especially from her partner, and when she comes to me to blow off steam about it she'll go into detail about how awful he makes her feel, how exhausted she is from running around after him and how depressed she is because of the way he treats her and everything... but when I suggest telling him this, or taking some measure to stop the bad treatment or whatever, her reaction is always that there's some way for her to give him "one more chance", but basically anything to avoid upheaval/conflict.

She's said to me before that she feels like she's a bad person because people praise her for being long-suffering and patient and compassionate and everything and bearing with people through their faults, but she says it's false martyrdom because it's not so much out of empathy or anything like that, but simple fear of the confrontation and disharmony it'd entail, to assert her rights.

Anyway, those rather extreme examples aside, it does seem to be a general ISFJ tendency to prefer to avoid spaces where conflict is wont to arise, so... well, there's a lot of 'superficial' conflict on this board (actually just differences of opinion and heated discussions, but it can come across as conflict to some), and sometimes there is genuine conflict. All of this might very well put off some ISFJs.
 

prplchknz

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I do with she'd stand up for herself more, I mean she was so stressed last semester because of all the work she had to do, and hadn't really made friends with anyone. She goes to school in Georgia (the state, not the country) and me in Illinois, but we were friends in Highschool. She does tend to inflate my ego because she claims I'm one of the nicest people she has known. I don't think that's true, but whatever. I really like the fact that she listens I find the people I get along with, are usually IxxJs in RL I have gotten along with mild Es and some Ps. But the majority of my friends have been Js. My best friends are an INxJ (not sure if she's a t or an f I think she's an f as she defiently uses fe), INTJ, and ExFJ (though this one sometimes drives me nutty, and I'm trying to work out if she's an N or an S) then this friend ISFJ. Though I did know a very nice ISFP in highschool who made the most beautiful cakes, she's be an excellent pastry chef because she can duplicate a painting exactly in the form of a cake. but the people I tend to really connect with are Js who don't mind so much that I'm messy.

I've gotten off topic sorry

But yeah, she's the only ISFJ I've ever gotten to know very well but she does seem to hate conflict.
 

INTJMom

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...especially from her partner, and when she comes to me to blow off steam about it she'll go into detail about how awful he makes her feel, how exhausted she is from running around after him and how depressed she is because of the way he treats her and everything... ...
Just out of curiosity, is she with an ENTP?
Not that ENTPs are bad or anything - obviously.
I think they're frequently attracted to each other, but they can be bad for each other.
 

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No INTJMom, she's with an ISTJ.

I've never really had the thought cross my mind about any ISFJ I've ever known, either of being attracted to them or them being attracted to me. I have difficulty imagining myself romantically involved with anyone anyway, in any case, since it's just a side of life that I've sorta electively lobotomized from my consciousness lol But if I were to imagine the ISFJ's I know and think of anything that might attract me, conceivably, it'd be their loyalty and constancy - they don't blow hot and cold one day to the next, you know if they're with you, they're with you to the end. That's a quality that's pretty rare and one I appreciate a great deal.

But I cannot imagine what they could possibly see in me but an obnoxious egomaniac, from their point of view (and also cos it's partly true lol).
 

INTJMom

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I think they're attracted to the confidence ENTPs usually exude.
 

LizMusica

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me personally, I am a pretty quiet person but when I see people who are outgoing "extroverted" I find that quite attractive in anybody, I also love watching people being honest with themselves... : )

Most of the guys I am interested in seem to be extroverted hmmm... donno why?
 

quietgirl

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You mean they're burning your toast for you. :D

Jae Rae

I'm just laughing because I'm the one who cooks in my INFJ/ISFJ relationship. My boyfriend can make bagels and that's it! At least he wakes up early to make the bagel & have it waiting for me when I wake up. :D
 

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Depends whether they were taught to cook. If they were taught to cook, they do everything perfectly because they follow the procedures and instructions to the letter and don't take random lliberties with recipes in the name of variety and experimentation (like I do, with varying success).

However, if they haven't been taught, then the chances of them figuring it out for themselves to the point of perfection that the taught ones achieve, seems pretty minimal.

But that tends to be the case with all of the ISxJ's I've known. When they know what to do, they do it perfectly. But without the instructions, if thrown in at the deep end with a new or unfamiliar task, it's flap time. Or it's time for that patented Si-dom rigidity: "No, I don't cook." [therefore you'll have to do it, or starve, I don't care either way, I'm ordering takeout!] Or, at best, it's "err on the side of caution" time: I'm petrified that if I cook these burgers I might poison everyone by undercooking them, therefore I'll burn them to a crisp to be on the safe side.
 

INTJMom

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Depends whether they were taught to cook. If they were taught to cook, they do everything perfectly because they follow the procedures and instructions to the letter and don't take random liberties with recipes in the name of variety and experimentation (like I do, with varying success).

However, if they haven't been taught, then the chances of them figuring it out for themselves to the point of perfection that the taught ones achieve, seems pretty minimal.

But that tends to be the case with all of the ISxJ's I've known. When they know what to do, they do it perfectly. But without the instructions, if thrown in at the deep end with a new or unfamiliar task, it's flap time. Or it's time for that patented Si-dom rigidity: "No, I don't cook." [therefore you'll have to do it, or starve, I don't care either way, I'm ordering takeout!] Or, at best, it's "err on the side of caution" time: I'm petrified that if I cook these burgers I might poison everyone by undercooking them, therefore I'll burn them to a crisp to be on the safe side.
You have an ISFJ daughter, right?

You have solved a conundrum for me. I had a best friend who was an ISFJ but always had to "take a class" before she would do something complex. I always wondered what motivated such thinking, not that there's anything wrong with it; it's just so different from me, I didn't understand it.

The other thing though, which I think is a great advantage over my temperament, after she took a class in something, she wouldn't be afraid at all. She didn't worry about not being perfect. She was patient with herself when she made mistakes. It was quite confounding to my thinking - so opposite of me.

One time we took lessons together - in a new computer application - and I did see the advantage of learning by a teacher rather than mucking about with iNtuition leading the way.
 

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You have an ISFJ daughter, right?

No, my two are xNTP and ENFx :)

I had a best friend who was an ISFJ but always had to "take a class" before she would do something complex. I always wondered what motivated such thinking, not that there's anything wrong with it; it's just so different from me, I didn't understand it.

The other thing though, which I think is a great advantage over my temperament, after she took a class in something, she wouldn't be afraid at all. She didn't worry about not being perfect. She was patient with herself when she made mistakes. It was quite confounding to my thinking - so opposite of me.

One time we took lessons together - in a new computer application - and I did see the advantage of learning by a teacher rather than mucking about with iNtuition leading the way.

Ah. Well I'm with you on 'your way', except that I don't find any nice surprises if I take classes. I hate classes, and have responded pretty poorly to formal education for most of my life, both as a kid and as a mature student (mature being a matter of opinion, obviously!).

I find that a 'teach yourself' sorta guidebook works best for me. I can dip into it here and there, do things at my pace (invariably much quicker than a class pace), skip parts, change the order, all as I see fit.

I've an ISTJ close friend who always has to take classes. He wanted to learn Italian so he took a class. I said I wanted to learn Italian too, but refused to join him in the class. He sneered and said he'd do better than me and my haphazard learning method, as he put it.

Ha. In six months I was having conversations with natives about current affairs, while he was still ordering an ensuite room for two and asking for directions. Eat that, mofo! :D

Classes and structure just frustrate the hell outta me and cause me to lose all motivation; I always wind up quitting them with many hard feelings afoot.
 
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