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[MBTI General] ISTJs Explained By ISTJs: Post your questions here!

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Things I've kind of learned:

-I am surprised to see so many SJs not fitting in at school with friends. I always thought SJs were completely socially comfortable.
Just wanted to emphasize this one again. SJs aren't always so socially comfortable (especially, one might claim, when it requires adapting).

Do you guys go crazy if you go over to INTPc? You should give it a shot. Face your demons SJs.
I've read it a few times, but the structure is hard to navigate.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
Okay, I need an explanation from my own people! LOL

How uncomfortable are you ISTJs with unfamiliar social situations? Because I'm not. There is some uneasiness, but not to the point I can't talk, and even make jokes and stuff. Is it the same for you?
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
How comfortable are you with emotional expression (from yourself and others)?

I'm not that uncomfortable with emotional expression. I just stop first to wonder if it's appropriate for the situation, but that's it. If I want to be like, "OMG AWESOME," no one's stopping me, not even myself. If I have a close friend and I'm 99.9% sure of our connection, I won't hesitate to reiterate to them how much they mean to me. I just want them to know the impact they have on my life by being there. I have an INFJ best friend that I was texting earlier today. I sent her 6-7 texts picking on her and teasing her, but at the end, I told her I really enjoy having her in my life because I don't have to censor myself around her.

What do you do in your spare time? What sort of hobbies do you have?

Uhh. Hobbies to me are like, model cars. I play video games, browse the net, watch stuff or listen to music. I've been obsessed with spec ops in Modern Warfare 2 lately. A good tactical game can pull me in in an instant. I've been doing the same 5 missions in MW2 the last 2 months. I just find different ways to do them to mess around. I get off on mastering something, then finding ways to add spice to it. The law of diminishing returns pisses me off.


In your personal opinion or experience, what is the greatest difference between you and xSFJs?

I won't hesitate to break a social rule if I don't see a logical reason to do it. I will analyze and scrutinize social ettiquette until I either don't do it or justify doing it to myself. I just refuse to be taken for a ride by FJs. I throw in Fi from time to time though, to stop and think about how what I say actually impacts a person's feelings and if it's a genuine impact or something superficial.
 

2XtremeENFP

New member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
446
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
3w4
Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?
in other words...

how do ISTJs go about challenging the structures of other ISTJs that are in conflict with their own ways of doing things?
in other, other words...

For example...
Given that ISTJs don't like change && They like what make sense to them, their own ways of doing things, and what is familiar to their already existing experiences, etc...
so.. what happens when an ISTJ tries to bring change to a new environment because they think their way is better.. like say starting a new job somewhere and you think you know best because it worked best for you in the past and you see very strong flaws that you find extremely unacceptable
 

Amira

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
199
MBTI Type
ISTJ
How uncomfortable are you ISTJs with unfamiliar social situations? Because I'm not. There is some uneasiness, but not to the point I can't talk, and even make jokes and stuff. Is it the same for you?
It depends. If everyone else seems super comfortable then I might be quite uneasy, though only if nobody bothers to talk much or respond much to my conversation. If it's unfamiliar/uncomfortable for other people too then I tend to have a good time. This is probably due to being a third culture kid, though. I thrive in "different" social circumstances and in helping diffuse awkwardness, while having trouble with certain very basic-to-this-country events.

Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?
LOL, yes. My oldest ISTJ brother can be like banging my head on a brick wall! He always does what he believes is right and he CANNOT bend if he thinks he's in danger of doing something at all "wrong" - i.e., he is not really capable of driving even 2 miles over the speed limit. He's a bit extreme, though. I have a younger ISTJ brother who is a lot more flexible. But it does sometimes makes me feel for other people dealing with my ISTJness!

how do ISTJs go about challenging the structures of other ISTJs that are in conflict with their own ways of doing things?
Umm... *crickets* try to pursuade them logically, tell them they are not helping by being obstructive... you can always try, not saying it always works, though! My ENFP sister tends to try to guilt trip me even though she knows perfectly well that that NEVER works on me - it's just her natural mode of influencing. I can be bad, though - sometimes I will do a guilt trip on her, though usually in a joking manner. It's way too easy to make her feel sympathy for things and we tell her we're trying to get her a little more tough and cynical for being out in the big bad world!

age: Well, I'm a lady so I won't answer in too much detail. Say middle of 20s.
 

Sam Spade

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
71
MBTI Type
ISTj
This is probably due to being a third culture kid, though. I thrive in "different" social circumstances and in helping diffuse awkwardness, while having trouble with certain very basic-to-this-country events.

I APPROVE. I am also a TCK. That's where a lot of my social problems lie. For example, when at a pary of international grad students, I have no trouble mingling. Put me in a party full of American undergrads and I am a wallflower.
 

Gerbah

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Okay, I need an explanation from my own people! LOL

How uncomfortable are you ISTJs with unfamiliar social situations? Because I'm not. There is some uneasiness, but not to the point I can't talk, and even make jokes and stuff. Is it the same for you?

I normally have some uneasiness at the beginning but not to a level where it hinders me from engaging. I search for openings for connection and talk, etc. and am happy when others are open. I'm not that shy actually. But if I feel the majority don't accept me, I don't try very hard to fight for acceptance and go quiet. Or if I feel I don't like the majority, I also don't try very hard to fit in. It's more to do with not seeing it worth the effort.
 

Unique

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
1,702
Well since you have us all figured out, there's no need for you to participate in this forum. :hi:

*fake non amused laughter*

We're just all part of a larger system, in a way. The SJs just maintain the order. We couldn't live without the NTs because the SJs just don't have the capacity to think in the manner of an NT. We're always going to have the conflict between the types, and it's something you just have to accept as the norm just because people are different. Black and white judgments of people because you don't approve of their thought process are pointless. We're all in this together, whether we like each other or not.

I guess you could say that's a major part of my goal in life, to seek an understanding of the systems that allow for order within our universe.

The order maintained is what society is "supposed" to be like, really the only achievement the human race is making at the moment is over population. Though... plenty of insignificant achievements are the bread and butter and oh so praised.

All in this together? Yes, of course, lets all just get along as humans are SO great at doing that (war anyone?)

Also in my experience MOST SJs don't appreciate NTs in the slightest, we are labeled as "eccentric" "weird" "losers" etc
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
*fake non amused laughter*



The order maintained is what society is "supposed" to be like, really the only achievement the human race is making at the moment is over population. Though... plenty of insignificant achievements are the bread and butter and oh so praised.

All in this together? Yes, of course, lets all just get along as humans are SO great at doing that (war anyone?)

Also in my experience MOST SJs don't appreciate NTs in the slightest, we are labeled as "eccentric" "weird" "losers" etc

I bet you are Ni-ing that conclusion. :nerd: All types can be labeled those things. That's not just regulated to NTs. I know some wierd SJs...the type that will save all of their emails by printing them out, and leave their chairs in certain positions, and if it's moved, they will freak. The kind that count their steps from 'x' to 'y', and have a routines/processes from getting dressed in the morning to carrying out their workout routine to their workday that, if it's not carried out in that manner, they have trouble functioning. That's wierd.

The balanced, mature view of people and their abilities is that all are necessary for success overall, however 'success' may be defined.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
*fake non amused laughter*



The order maintained is what society is "supposed" to be like, really the only achievement the human race is making at the moment is over population. Though... plenty of insignificant achievements are the bread and butter and oh so praised.

All in this together? Yes, of course, lets all just get along as humans are SO great at doing that (war anyone?)

Also in my experience MOST SJs don't appreciate NTs in the slightest, we are labeled as "eccentric" "weird" "losers" etc

I just find beauty in the chaos. :)
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?
in other words...

how do ISTJs go about challenging the structures of other ISTJs that are in conflict with their own ways of doing things?
in other, other words...

For example...
Given that ISTJs don't like change && They like what make sense to them, their own ways of doing things, and what is familiar to their already existing experiences, etc...
so.. what happens when an ISTJ tries to bring change to a new environment because they think their way is better.. like say starting a new job somewhere and you think you know best because it worked best for you in the past and you see very strong flaws that you find extremely unacceptable

Very good questions...

Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?

Yes! What's 'right' differs from individual to individual, so it's hard when you are dealing with 2 people who are pretty sure in their way.


What happens when an ISTJ tries to bring change to a new environment because they think their way is better.. like say starting a new job somewhere and you think you know best because it worked best for you in the past and you see very strong flaws that you find extremely unacceptable


This is exactly what I'm experiencing now. I left an external accouting firm, and now am doing internal audit, so I've seen different organizations and practices that work and that just plain suck.

Not to get too detailed, but when I first got here, We had a document stored in 3 different places (The database, or official record of our work, a shared drive, and hardcopy.) So if you updated one, you had to update all 3. My first assignment, I went along with everything, just to take it all in. After that, I made some suggestions to change things (if it's in the database and that's the final reviewed product, why do we need it in those other places?) My ESTJ boss' initial reaction was uneasiness, because it wasn't that triple insurance that he's used to, PLUS because his boss (ISTJ)'s instructions were to work it this way.

So what I did was, instead of just saying it, I put it into action, planted little seeds here and there with the how's and why's it's beneficial to change, and even pointed out some authoritative guidance (ISTJs LOVE facts, remember?), And let the results speak, in addition to the verbal, and eventually we've moved away from that practice. :yes:

Don't do as Amira says her sister does- whine. Don't try to 'force' them to do something, they may carry it out, or worse, they may not, and then what do you do? Especially at work, you can't hit somebody for disobedience. ISTJs especially will sometimes try to force their opinions, but if that doesn't work, they are at a loss on how to motivate.

My ESTJ boss cannot manage his ISTJ boss. the ISTJ is a hand's off micromanager, and the ESTJ takes everything he says literally. So if the ISTJ makes a suggestion, the ESTJ will take it as law and will pass it on to me and my ENFJ coworker exactly how the ISTJ states it, but sometimes he'll add on additional reins to the request. It drives me crazy! The ESTJs peer, an ISTP boss, however, will take what the ISTJ says, filters it, and passes it on to his team in a more balanced matter. So you can see how hard it is when there are multiple SJs in the mix.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
Very good questions...

Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?

Yes! What's 'right' differs from individual to individual, so it's hard when you are dealing with 2 people who are pretty sure in their way.

The problem I have with this most of the time is that you can be pretty stuck on something just because of your own tunnel vision. I can be on the outside of a situation and see something else that needs to be fixed that the stubborn ISTJ is doing. Usually, though, I could logically point out why what they're doing is wrong, but I try to limit it because I might end up hurting someone's feelings.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Very good questions...

Are ISTJs frustrated by other ISTJs (or maybe just SJs) who are stubborn and resist change?

Yes! What's 'right' differs from individual to individual, so it's hard when you are dealing with 2 people who are pretty sure in their way.


What happens when an ISTJ tries to bring change to a new environment because they think their way is better.. like say starting a new job somewhere and you think you know best because it worked best for you in the past and you see very strong flaws that you find extremely unacceptable


This is exactly what I'm experiencing now. I left an external accouting firm, and now am doing internal audit, so I've seen different organizations and practices that work and that just plain suck.

Not to get too detailed, but when I first got here, We had a document stored in 3 different places (The database, or official record of our work, a shared drive, and hardcopy.) So if you updated one, you had to update all 3. My first assignment, I went along with everything, just to take it all in. After that, I made some suggestions to change things (if it's in the database and that's the final reviewed product, why do we need it in those other places?) My ESTJ boss' initial reaction was uneasiness, because it wasn't that triple insurance that he's used to, PLUS because his boss (ISTJ)'s instructions were to work it this way.

So what I did was, instead of just saying it, I put it into action, planted little seeds here and there with the how's and why's it's beneficial to change, and even pointed out some authoritative guidance (ISTJs LOVE facts, remember?), And let the results speak, in addition to the verbal, and eventually we've moved away from that practice. :yes:

Don't do as Amira says her sister does- whine. Don't try to 'force' them to do something, they may carry it out, or worse, they may not, and then what do you do? Especially at work, you can't hit somebody for disobedience. ISTJs especially will sometimes try to force their opinions, but if that doesn't work, they are at a loss on how to motivate.

My ESTJ boss cannot manage his ISTJ boss. the ISTJ is a hand's off micromanager, and the ESTJ takes everything he says literally. So if the ISTJ makes a suggestion, the ESTJ will take it as law and will pass it on to me and my ENFJ coworker exactly how the ISTJ states it, but sometimes he'll add on additional reins to the request. It drives me crazy! The ESTJs peer, an ISTP boss, however, will take what the ISTJ says, filters it, and passes it on to his team in a more balanced matter. So you can see how hard it is when there are multiple SJs in the mix.

When I get orders and pass it on, I also pass on the reasons as it releases the reigns of others, but keeps the goal and everything in mind. If you have a better way or a suggestion have at it, but we need to reach XYZ goal. I dig for reasons so I can step around the orders in a fashion that doesnt cause issues and produces the best results.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
When I get orders and pass it on, I also pass on the reasons as it releases the reigns of others, but keeps the goal and everything in mind. If you have a better way or a suggestion have at it, but we need to reach XYZ goal. I dig for reasons so I can step around the orders in a fashion that doesnt cause issues and produces the best results.

That's how it should be....to give the recipients an opportunity to accomplish the goal within their comforts, and I consciously try to keep that in mind instead of restricting others.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
The problem I have with this most of the time is that you can be pretty stuck on something just because of your own tunnel vision. I can be on the outside of a situation and see something else that needs to be fixed that the stubborn ISTJ is doing. Usually, though, I could logically point out why what they're doing is wrong, but I try to limit it because I might end up hurting someone's feelings.

Good point...ISTJs can see the flaws and call them out, but sometimes it's not advantageous, especially if you are dealing with a similar type. You want to be diplomatic in how you approach it.
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
Good point...ISTJs can see the flaws and call them out, but sometimes it's not advantageous, especially if you are dealing with a similar type. You want to be diplomatic in how you approach it.

Selling thick skins for $50 a piece.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
LOL, yes. My oldest ISTJ brother can be like banging my head on a brick wall! He always does what he believes is right and he CANNOT bend if he thinks he's in danger of doing something at all "wrong" - i.e., he is not really capable of driving even 2 miles over the speed limit. He's a bit extreme, though. I have a younger ISTJ brother who is a lot more flexible. But it does sometimes makes me feel for other people dealing with my ISTJness!



age: Well, I'm a lady so I won't answer in too much detail. Say middle of 20s.


So you are one of 3 ISTJ siblings and an ENFP? Anymore and what are their types?

That's interesting....I'm one of 11, and while I haven't finished typing them all, I'd say I have one other ISTJ (estimated) brother who is 9 years older than me, but that's it. I think I have one IxxP brother, an ENTP brother (estimated), an ENFP sister (confirmed), ESFP sister (confirmed), ESFx sister (estimated), and the rest I have not typed.

I think it's funny you can see the extremes in your family, with your brother who won't drive over the speedlimit- I think that's the image a lot of people have of SJs.
 
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