[ISFJ] Problems with my ISFJ best friend :(.... do you know things like these?

[Snow Turtle]

I see nothing wrong with what the ISFJ did. She gave the OP the option and said if the OP didn't want to go she would give it to someone else. It's not like she kidnapped the OP brought him/her to the concert pointed a gun at his/her head and then asked for him/her to pay for it afterward.

Yeah but chances are there is going to be some form of unnecessary resentment arising from the whole situation. It's sort of like "I don't expect you to go, but if you don't then well... our friendship is mostly going to take a little beating"

No offence OP. But it doesn't sound like a particularly healthy friendship there... and while I know you aren't so keen on losing a friend. It might be a good idea to start standing your ground. From what's been written, it's almost as if she's started to take some aspects of you for granted since it's always been that way. Perhaps she's not aware of what sort of impact that system has on other people, that there is a little imbalance in regards to friendship.

Sure. She could end the friendship. But then ask yourself this.
Would someone that values friendship (especially a dedicated ISFJ) discard a friendship so easily?

If she does. Well... I'm sorry to say, but your friendship wasn't that strong in the first place.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Yeah but chances are there is going to be some form of unnecessary resentment arising from the whole situation. It's sort of like "I don't expect you to go, but if you don't then well... our friendship is mostly going to take a little beating"

No offence OP. But it doesn't sound like a particularly healthy friendship there... and while I know you aren't so keen on losing a friend. It might be a good idea to start standing your ground. From what's been written, it's almost as if she's started to take some aspects of you for granted since it's always been that way. Perhaps she's not aware of what sort of impact that system has on other people, that there is a little imbalance in regards to friendship.

Sure. She could end the friendship. But then ask yourself this.
Would someone that values friendship (especially a dedicated ISFJ) discard a friendship so easily?

If she does. Well... I'm sorry to say, but your friendship wasn't that strong in the first place.

I absolutely agree with what you say! that's what I am beginning to think...!
and this is why I have started to stand my ground. because I think there has something been going wrong and become one-sided (in me always giving in etc.). Even though she really means a lot to me, I have noticed that this is not everything in a friendship, if other things go wrong.
thanks for your honesty!

 

[Space_Oddity]

I don't get why people don't believe your friend is an ISFJ - her behavior has much more to do with her individual character, not personality type, and it's not really that important anyway. I experienced something similar in two friendships with INFJs when I was younger, but of course not all INFJs behave like this. May I ask you how old are you?

In my case, the girls were both extremely insecure, needy, easily offended and had absolutely unrealistic demands of friendship (they rather regarded it as a romantic relationship or what). They were very lonely and often resorted to emotional blackmail when they felt bad. I think it was something like a defense mechanism, but paradoxically they were losing all of their friends because of it. I have to say I didn't endure it for long either, because I really value my freedom and the girls rather wanted to tie people to them. In fact, it seems to me that their insecurity made them borderline paranoid.

If I were you, I would try to explain gently to your friend how you feel about your relationship. If you don't want to lose her you have to be very careful though, because she is likely to turn everything you said against you. I guess you primarily need to reassure her that you really care for her. But I have to say that if she ends your friendship, it's her loss, not yours. Alienating people is probably sort of a self-destructive behavior on her part, and she has to realize herself what she's doing.

 

[Giggly]

I have SJ, SP, NT and NF friends /family that I have had this experience of them feeling very hurt or angry when I don't want to do something that they want me to do that they think is a great idea. The thing is, I kind of think it's normal for people who care about each other to do this (or maybe I just experience it a lot).

How I have learned to deal with it is to assess the value of the relationship to me. I really don't think it's a good idea to just throw away people who mean a lot to you and are good to you, so more often than not, I will end up submitting and do so without being resentful because it's like give and take. They bring joy to my life so I do things they like.

On the other hand, if you're experiencing mostly bad things/feelings from this friend, then let her go if she wants to go. Sometimes a little space is needed to recalibrate the intensity and expectations of the relationship.

 

[Giggly]

If I were you, I would try to explain gently to your friend how you feel about your relationship. If you don't want to lose her you have to be very careful though, because she is likely to turn everything you said against you. I guess you primarily need to reassure her that you really care for her. But I have to say that if she ends your friendship, it's her loss, not yours. Alienating people is probably sort of a self-destructive behavior on her part, and she has to realize herself what she's doing.

Okay, so I have a friend like this that I'm dealing with right now. I'm not sure of her type but I really don't know how to make her happy. She's high expectations of me, likes to know about and control every aspect of my life, is extremely sensitive, and non-communicative. She constantly gives me the silent treatment like she's disappointed in me and I never know why because she won't tell me! I ask but she won't talk. We've been friends since high school and I love her dearly but I've always had trouble reading her and I am often blindsided by the change in her moods and her silent treatment. Every time we've attempted to have conversations about this, she simply doesn't open up about it but clearly she seems disappointed in me and like she's expecting me to figure out on my own what will please her but I truly am lost though.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Okay, so I have a friend like this that I'm dealing with right now. I'm not sure of her type but I really don't know how to make her happy. She's high expectations of me, likes to know about and control every aspect of my life, is extremely sensitive, and non-communicative. She constantly gives me the silent treatment like she's disappointed in me and I never know why because she won't tell me! I ask but she won't talk. We've been friends since high school and I love her dearly but I've always had trouble reading her and I am often blindsided by the change in her moods and her silent treatment. Every time we've attempted to have conversations about this, she simply doesn't open up about it but clearly she seems disappointed in me and like she's expecting me to figure out on my own what will please her but I truly am lost though.

this could also be a decription of my friend...... she will only talk about what I have done wrong after I have begged her to, again and again. I have been doing this for so long, and somehow I am sick of it. since she doesn't do it in reverse..... I am sometimes like that, as well...but if I am disappointed, at some point I either just get over it, thinking "I also hurt other people though I love them", or mention what I am disappointed about....

 

[Giggly]

this could also be a decription of my friend...... she will only talk about what I have done wrong after I have begged her to, again and again. I have been doing this for so long, and somehow I am sick of it. since she doesn't do it in reverse..... I am sometimes like that, as well...but if I am disappointed, at some point I either just get over it, thinking "I also hurt other people though I love them", or mention what I am disappointed about....

My friend doesn't do it in reverse either. She has really hurt me in the past but I forgave her because I felt like people make mistakes. I never punished her or made her feel bad because of it because I had made up my mind to forgive her. But it did upset me that she never even apologized or acknowledged that I was hurt despite the fact that she knew that she did something wrong. I never told her that I was upset that she never apologized though, I just let it go. I have and do apologize to her whenever I feel like I have wronged her in some way but that is never enough. I notice that whenever she makes even little mistakes, she won't admit that she's wrong and will get REALLY mad and impatient with the person, and won't apologize for her attitude either (not that I expect that but I'm just remembering all of this right now and it's making me realize how her pride gets in the way of things).

I have a couple of other people in my life like this too but they're not as close to me. I think there's something about me that attracts people like this.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

My friend doesn't do it in reverse either. She has really hurt me in the past but I forgave her because I felt like people make mistakes. I never punished her or made her feel bad because of it because I had made up my mind to forgive her. But it did upset me that she never even apologized or acknowledged that I was hurt despite the fact that she knew that she did something wrong. I never told her that I was upset that she never apologized though, I just let it go. I have and do apologize to her whenever I feel like I have wronged her in some way but that is never enough. I notice that whenever she makes even little mistakes, she won't admit that she's wrong and will get REALLY mad and impatient with the person, and won't apologize for her attitude either (not that I expect that but I'm just remembering all of this right now and it's making me realize how her pride gets in the way of things).

I have a couple of other people in my life like this too but they're not as close to me. I think there's something about me that attracts people like this.

I think with my friend it's really similar like what you describe with your friend. If I appologize (what I did in this current issue, even though via email and sms), it's never enough.....if people appologize to me I use to accept it and think they mean what they are saying.....so I find it difficult if people expect to do other things of which I don't know what they are..... My friend also does not admit that she has done something wrong. I know this sounds kind fo unfair of me to say that, but it's rather always the others that make the mistakes..... I'm kind of fed up with this at the moment, even though she is close to me. I won't come beggin this time..... my other close friends are rather different, actually .... very forgiving. I really appreciate that. There are issues too, but usually we communicate and solve the problem.
It's this punishing thing that my friend does as well. I find this really hard ... since I am a person who is rather sensitive towards those things, and I think she knows that and does it deliberately.
I wish you good luck with your friend :/...

 

[Space_Oddity]

Umm... if I may ask, what does your friendship with her give you?

From what your wrote your friendship doesn't really sound great, but we have to keep in mind that we're all human and nobody is perfect... The more we get really close to someone, the more their faults get exposed, but if we really like them we should accept them with all those faults. If your friend behaves like this, but otherwise she's wonderful and your friendship is rewarding, perhaps you should just come to terms with it (however hard it is). However, if you feel that she's been continuously hurting you and your friendship is not rewarding anymore, you're always free to leave.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Umm... if I may ask, what does your friendship with her give you?

From what your wrote your friendship doesn't really sound great, but we have to keep in mind that we're all human and nobody is perfect... The more we get really close to someone, the more their faults get exposed, but if we really like them we should accept them with all those faults. If your friend behaves like this, but otherwise she's wonderful and your friendship is rewarding, perhaps you should just come to terms with it (however hard it is). However, if you feel that she's been continuously hurting you and your friendship is not rewarding anymore, you're always free to leave.

I think the problem is that it's really hard to say if what she gives me equals the difficulty of the friendship. she has always been there for me when I needed her, in that she has really given so so much. on the other hand I have really often feelt suffocated and put under pressure and have worried a great deal. coming to think about it I'd have to say that I worry much more about what I could have done wrong than enjoy the friendship. there is always some kind of subtle pressure that I feel..... I really can't decide at the moment .... it's neither a clear yes nor a clear no....

 

[Giggly]

Halfjillhalfjack, I think our situation is similar. Reading your posts, it's like you could have written my thoughts. I wish you luck with your friend as well.

Umm... if I may ask, what does your friendship with her give you?

From what your wrote your friendship doesn't really sound great, but we have to keep in mind that we're all human and nobody is perfect... The more we get really close to someone, the more their faults get exposed, but if we really like them we should accept them with all those faults. If your friend behaves like this, but otherwise she's wonderful and your friendship is rewarding, perhaps you should just come to terms with it (however hard it is). However, if you feel that she's been continuously hurting you and your friendship is not rewarding anymore, you're always free to leave.

Part of my friends way of punishing me is to not let me experience the wonderful side of her.

 

[KLessard]

Okay, so I have a friend like this that I'm dealing with right now. I'm not sure of her type but I really don't know how to make her happy. She's high expectations of me, likes to know about and control every aspect of my life, is extremely sensitive, and non-communicative. She constantly gives me the silent treatment like she's disappointed in me and I never know why because she won't tell me! I ask but she won't talk. We've been friends since high school and I love her dearly but I've always had trouble reading her and I am often blindsided by the change in her moods and her silent treatment. Every time we've attempted to have conversations about this, she simply doesn't open up about it but clearly she seems disappointed in me and like she's expecting me to figure out on my own what will please her but I truly am lost though.

OH MY WORD. This is so me and this ISFJ girl I know (been mentioned before). I'm the sullen one, easy disappointed and all. Your friend is INFJ. So this is how you feel about it? Tell me more!

 

[Space_Oddity]

I think the problem is that it's really hard to say if what she gives me equals the difficulty of the friendship. she has always been there for me when I needed her, in that she has really given so so much. on the other hand I have really often feelt suffocated and put under pressure and have worried a great deal. coming to think about it I'd have to say that I worry much more about what I could have done wrong than enjoy the friendship. there is always some kind of subtle pressure that I feel..... I really can't decide at the moment .... it's neither a clear yes nor a clear no....

Part of my friends way of punishing me is to not let me experience the wonderful side of her.

Well, regardless of the girls' types, this really reminds me of my experiences with the two INFJs. The only difference is that as a Fi-dom, I perceived it in a whole another way. It seems like you see your friends' behavior as "punishing you", "being disappointed in you", and it makes you sad because you would like to match the friends' expectations but don't know how... whereas for me, the constant feeling of pressure and suffocating stood out to me by far the most and it made me angry rather than unhappy. Maybe I also sensed that the friends were kind of disappointed in me but I found their reasons unreasonable and pathetic and I wasn't afraid to make this clear to them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not... But I just found their expectations silly, I knew that I couldn't match them and I didn't even want to. I'm extremely manipulation-resistant, especially emotional manipulation, and this behavior screamed emotional manipulation to me.

However, I'm a Fi-dom and for Fi-doms, the freedom of feeling is of the utmost importance; when an FJ starts to order me how I should feel the only feeling that comes is resentment. Maybe you are more suitable to endure this behavior and still stay friends with the girls. But regardless of your type, you don't seem to enjoy your friends' "punishing", so the only advice I can give you is... you don't always have to put your friends' feelings first. Your own feelings are just as important. Actually, they are more important. And by their behavior, your friends in fact show you that their own feelings are more important for them then yours - if they weren't, they wouldn't make you feel bad like that.

Nevertheless, I wish you good luck and hope everything will work out just fine between you and your friends, for the benefit of you all.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Well, regardless of the girls' types, this really reminds me of my experiences with the two INFJs. The only difference is that as a Fi-dom, I perceived it in a whole another way. It seems like you see your friends' behavior as "punishing you", "being disappointed in you", and it makes you sad because you would like to match the friends' expectations but don't know how... whereas for me, the constant feeling of pressure and suffocating stood out to me by far the most and it made me angry rather than unhappy. Maybe I also sensed that the friends were kind of disappointed in me but I found their reasons unreasonable and pathetic and I wasn't afraid to make this clear to them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not... But I just found their expectations silly, I knew that I couldn't match them and I didn't even want to. I'm extremely manipulation-resistant, especially emotional manipulation, and this behavior screamed emotional manipulation to me.

However, I'm a Fi-dom and for Fi-doms, the freedom of feeling is of the utmost importance; when an FJ starts to order me how I should feel the only feeling that comes is resentment. Maybe you are more suitable to endure this behavior and still stay friends with the girls. But regardless of your type, you don't seem to enjoy your friends' "punishing", so the only advice I can give you is... you don't always have to put your friends' feelings first. Your own feelings are just as important. Actually, they are more important. And by their behavior, your friends in fact show you that their own feelings are more important for them then yours - if they weren't, they wouldn't make you feel bad like that.

Nevertheless, I wish you good luck and hope everything will work out just fine between you and your friends, for the benefit of you all.

Thank you for your reply! I really really can identify with what you say. With me it was that previously I always felt sad when I couldn't meet my friend's expectations, and what came along as well was an EXTREME feeling of guilt. really really really bad feeling. the thing is that I notice now that this feeling of sadness and guilt has turned to anger, and the reason is what you said about one's own feelings. the thing is that now I just realized my friend only seems to care for HER feelings. she expects me to care for her feelings and doesn't care for mine. but I have decided that I want about what I feel as well. if she should contact me again, I will tell her that she has not cared about my feelings, if she complains that I did not care for her feelings. realizing that my friend does not try to understand my feelings and obviously doesn't care about how I feel has really disappointed ME now .

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Ah, and besides sadness and guilt I have also felt preassured before..... Even though emotional punishment works really well with me ...... I think if our friendship is going to endure, I will not give in to that kind of punishment-treatment. I don't know...sounds so harsh, but I also have feelings and I have decided that my feelings are also important.