• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ISFJ] ISFJ is sick of being looked down upon!

gracefully

New member
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
17
MBTI Type
ISFJ
I have been friends with an INTJ for over five years now.I am thinking of breaking off my friendship with her because of the way she treats me. I am really sick of the way she looks down at me. She even told me to my face that I am "simple" and "boring."I tried to let comments like this slide, but she kept doing it again

After graduating from college, I applied to a secretarial job and she looked down on me again, insinuating how I can enjoy doing routine jobs, which to her is so boring. In contrast, I have stayed supportive of her career 100%.

I understand that others might interpret her as being rational and objective (as an INTJ)--however how can I not feel affected when she is attacking my person?

I also understand that she is a Thinker and Intuitive, so she can see possiblities about the future and she is more confident in her abilities. But, the way she makes me feel like I am inferior and second class citizen.

I have been a good friend to her, always there when she needs me and been supportive no matter what. . Even when we go out, I let her lead as she wants to.

I have to draw the line. I am planning on ending this friendship this year, and hopefully this is the right choice. I don't like being used or being treated as doormats.
 
R

Riva

Guest
I have to draw the line. I am planning on ending this friendship this year, and hopefully this is the right choice. I don't like being used or being treated as doormats.

You don't have to end the relationship with her.

Just stand up to her and say not to treat you the way she treats you. And tell her how she feels.

Rub it on her face. Tell her how cruel of her to treat her own friends that way.

The issue with you seems to be that you don't stand up to her when she treats you that way. It is not her fault. It is your fault. Yes it is.

She treats you bad and you tolerate it because why?

You don't care? well can't be that because you do care. you are human.
Or
Is it because you are scared to confront her? Well if this is the reason I think you deserve to be treated this way because you don't seem to have the confidence in your self.

If you don't have confidence in your self how could you expect her to have confidence in you and treat you how you want her to treat you (respectfully.)

-------------

I am confident if you stand up to her she would change her ways. If she doesn't then end it. End the relationship.

But even if you do end the relationship you would have the satisfaction of knowing that you did the right thing and you stood up to her.

:)

Good luck.
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
All of my irl friends since I was a kid have been like this, except one. Being around them is a toss up between good feelings and bad feelings and sometimes at the same time so it's really confusing. My only advice is to do what Curzon suggested and at least let her know how you feel and give her a chance to treat you better before ending the friendship. There may be contributing factors that she wants to discuss with you too.
 
R

Riva

Guest
let her know how you feel and give her a chance to treat you better before ending the friendship. There may be contributing factors that she wants to discuss with you too.

Exactly. :)
 

gracefully

New member
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
17
MBTI Type
ISFJ
You don't have to end the relationship with her.

Just stand up to her and say not to treat you the way she treats you. And tell her how she feels.

Rub it on her face. Tell her how cruel of her to treat her own friends that way.

The issue with you seems to be that you don't stand up to her when she treats you that way. It is not her fault. It is your fault. Yes it is.

She treats you bad and you tolerate it because why?

You don't care? well can't be that because you do care. you are human.
Or
Is it because you are scared to confront her? Well if this is the reason I think you deserve to be treated this way because you don't seem to have the confidence in your self.

If you don't have confidence in your self how could you expect her to have confidence in you and treat you how you want her to treat you (respectfully.)

-------------

I am confident if you stand up to her she would change her ways. If she doesn't then end it. End the relationship.

But even if you do end the relationship you would have the satisfaction of knowing that you did the right thing and you stood up to her.

:)

Good luck.

I have stood up to her, in a non directive and confrontational way. I explained to her, more or less, in a calm manner that Different stokes apply to different people. People have different strengths and weaknesses. And that she can't expect me to be "intelligent" and "creative" as her because I have a different personality and assets. However, she doesn't seem to understand that, and continues with the behavior.

I don't know, it just really frustrates me. I know it's time to end this friendship because I feel beaten "down" after hanging out with her. I just feel like I have to change who I am in her presence, as if there is somewhat a deficiency being an ISFJ.

Anyway, thank you for comment. I'm still trying to sort things in my mind...
 
R

Riva

Guest
I have stood up to her, in a non directive and confrontational way. I explained to her, more or less, in a calm manner that Different stokes apply to different people. People have different strengths and weaknesses. And that she can't expect me to be "intelligent" and "creative" as her because I have a different personality and assets. However, she doesn't seem to understand that, and continues with the behavior.

She sounds like a bitch. Does she have a tail? :newwink:

I don't know, it just really frustrates me. I know it's time to end this friendship because I feel beaten "down" after hanging out with her. I just feel like I have to change who I am in her presence, as if there is somewhat a deficiency being an ISFJ.

Anyway, thank you for comment. I'm still trying to sort things in my mind...

I think you should do what you feel. Not do what is right when it comes to situations like this.

And luckily for you what you feel and the right thing to do are the same in this circumstance.

Do what you feel. :)

Besides it would be YOUR decision.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
The issue with you seems to be that you don't stand up to her when she treats you that way. It is not her fault. It is your fault. Yes it is.

Good luck navigating social situations with this assumption in mind, really. :doh: Let's go one step further: it's women's fault when they get raped.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You don't have to end the relationship with her.

Just stand up to her and say not to treat you the way she treats you. And tell her how she feels.

Rub it on her face. Tell her how cruel of her to treat her own friends that way.

The issue with you seems to be that you don't stand up to her when she treats you that way. It is not her fault. It is your fault. Yes it is.

She treats you bad and you tolerate it because why?

-------------

I am confident if you stand up to her she would change her ways. If she doesn't then end it. End the relationship.

But even if you do end the relationship you would have the satisfaction of knowing that you did the right thing and you stood up to her.

:)

Good luck.

IMHO - Don't rub anything in anybody's face and don't break anything off. As someone with a lot of experience with INTJ/ISFJ relationships, I can recommend that you just be direct and tell her how you feel. I think you don't like confrontation, which is understandable, but it doesn't need to be that way. INTJs like directness and honesty. They appreciate this.

She is probably just not thinking through things with the right lens. She probably has a great deal of respect for you and thinks you are capable of so much more. She sees your great interpersonal skills and wishes she had some of them. You need to educate her on what you want out of life and how your goals in life are different than hers.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
I'll bet, if she's held onto to talking to you for 5 years, she really cares for you. If someone was really annoyed and sickened by their friend's life choices, especially an INTJ, I can't seem them maintaining close contact, moreless nagging them to 'fix' it.

I think you know there's a piece of her trying to help you.. but she's not comprehending that is ISN'T helping, it's HURTING. Sometimes people forget that what's good for one person isn't at all right for the other.

I'd be confrontational. Not because you want to be, or because it always turns out well.. but.. If I were in her shoes, someone who avoids confrontation suddenly being so takes me by surprise. Maybe being confrontational and direct, but not crude or rude, will make her snap to attention and realize that she's doing damage to a relationship that's more important than her ideas on what's good for you.

Be proud of who you are, and what you do. Don't let anyone cut you down because they think you're capable of more. Maybe you are, and you put those capabilities to use in other areas of life. "Being capable" doesn't have to equal a fancy huge career, or anything else. Success is defined in all different ways. Plus, what do you have to lose? You be direct and upfront and brash, and you still lose the friendship. So I don't see much of a downside.

I hope your situation with your friend works out for the better, either way it goes.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
MBTI Type
GONE
Wow, what was the context of being called "simple" and "boring"? I am trying to consider a scenario where I would not be immediately very insulted and end the conversation. It's a big difference if someone calls your outfit "boring" or tells you that you have "simple needs" to telling someone they are "boring" (period) and "simple" (period).

I think more important than the relationship with the INTJ here is the principle - don't let anyone make you feel like crap. You do NOT have to put up with it. And often the simplest thing - just speaking up and saying it out loud - makes a world of difference. This is an extremely important life lesson to learn now. There will be many more people like the INTJ in your life.

If the relationship ends, it ends, but you owe it yourself and even to her to explain yourself. At least give her a chance.

But for sure, tell her how insulting her comments are to you and more importantly, how you feel she looks down upon you and why. Tell her you don't need her to agree with your life choices but you need to be treated with respect. You can also put a little bite into it and say how ironic you think it is that an INTJ (her) would call someone else boring. Explain to her that there are many faults of hers that you could point out, unsolicitied, but you don't because of X, Y, Z reasons and that is why you take offense when she does it to you, in the way that she does.

I think from that point once you tell her how you feel it will all be about how good you both are at communicating. If she's willing and able, she might tell you that she does respect you and she is just talking to you like she talks to "everyone else". A good response here is that you are *not* "everyone else" and that you've invested enough in each other to be worth a little more effort. Etc.

Honestly, I've seen similar confrontations/conversations go either way, to an extreme. So much is out of your hands and so much relies on both of your comfort levels with confrontation. So I wouldn't worry too much past the part where you say your piece. The goal here is to get it all off your chest (in a constructive way) and put the ball in her court. That should be your focus.

At the very least, it will be a good exercise and opportunity for you.

Tell us how it goes!
 

proximo

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
584
I think more important than the relationship with the INTJ here is the principle - don't let anyone make you feel like crap. You do NOT have to put up with it. And often the simplest thing - just speaking up and saying it out loud - makes a world of difference. This is an extremely important life lesson to learn now. There will be many more people like the INTJ in your life.

:yes:

I know you said you have tried to stand up to her, but I'm not convinced that you were as direct as is necessary with INTJ's. A sledgehammer, I find, is usually necessary with these guys...

I've had an ISFJ try to stand up to me once, and I didn't even recognise that this was what she was doing, until someone else told me. It looked to me like she was terrified to just hit that ball over the net and put it in my court, almost like she was hinting to me to give her my PERMISSION to do it while I just stood there watching her bouncing it around her side of the court, if you will; she seemed very vague. It left me feeling a little confused as to what she was actually trying to achieve, and my impression was "well, if it's not important enough for her to say it like she means it, it's probably nothing to worry about".

Whack it over, I say. See what they do with it. But keep whacking it right over. NT's tend to be quite good at sending it back, but you've gotta keep the focus on the fact that you're talking about THEM being rude to YOU, so THEY are the ones who need to explain and apologise, not you. Don't let them turn it into an abstract/academic debate about whether people "in general" should do this or do that or what they usually do or whatever, so it becomes about you having to explain and defend your perception.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
Thinking about it, what does a friendship with somebody that calls you boring and simple add to your life? Just never talk to her anymore, that's probably the best solution. Purposefully trying to stir up drama will just waste your energies towards furthering a nonsensical friendship.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
with INTJs you may need to be extremely direct.

YOU ARE HURTING ME. I LOVE YOU AND CARE FOR YOU BUT YOU ARE HURTING ME.

STOP IT NOW. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MY MIND WORKS OR WHAT I WANT OUT OF LIFE. I AM HAPPY!@!!!!!!!

or something like that. It will be really hard for you, but I'd suggest drinking a bit. Maybe cut and paste the above into an email you send her as it might even be hard for you to write something so direct.

All the subtle little cues are utterly lost on her. She cant see them. You need to take the catastrophic approach.

As an isfj, you will come across as an amazingly loving, beautiful, caring person. You nurture those around you. You dont bring the things she has to the table but then she may end up very lonely due to what she has. You have enormous value and will not be appreciated always by us looney Ns as we live in outerspace somewhere. Dont let her get you down or take the things she says to heart too much.

My intj told me I might have gotten my phd if I hadn't been so lazy. It was three seconds of sharp pain, followed by me bursting out laughing at her... They are kinda oblivious about this stuff, so once you understand that it becomes easier to forgive them.

also-tell her-dont apply YOUR standards to ME. I want different things out of life than you.

good luck!
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
with INTJs you may need to be extremely direct.

YOU ARE HURTING ME. I LOVE YOU AND CARE FOR YOU BUT YOU ARE HURTING ME.

STOP IT NOW. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MY MIND WORKS OR WHAT I WANT OUT OF LIFE. I AM HAPPY!@!!!!!!!

Well, why should she waste 3 days (one day anticipating how to start this conversation and how the other person might react, the next day feeling anxious because she is going to do it, the day after feeling bad for letting it happen) thinking about this, while she could more easily cut ties completely? Nobody wants a friend that is super-rude to you. It's better if the INTJ in questions understands this by losing friends rather than by getting away with some shouting.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Gracefully, I'm sorry someone you consider a friend has verbally abused you in the manner this woman has.

You've been given some great advice in this thread. If directly confronting this person in a more obvious and assertive manner isn't something you find yourself able to do, try putting all your thoughts and feelings in an email and send it to her. You can then bring it up in person after the email has been exchanged. Since you're both introverts, maybe written communication will invite more involved exchanges.

Generally, I find the attitude of your friend something that disgusts me greatly about many people on this forum. So many posters have basically said the exact same thing about sensors in their life; that they're simple, shallow, uninteresting, unimaginative, uncreative, that they can't connect to them. People who claim to be empathetic, sensitive, and caring towards the lot of humanity have a superiority complex towards half of the people they come into contact with. That's why I think so many people here are full of sh*t. Understanding is a two-way street, actually it's more like 12-lane interstate, with ramps, local lanes, thru lanes, ever shifting speed limits, and conflicting and confusing signs.
 

Randomnity

insert random title here
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
9,485
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If you've explained clearly that her actions are unacceptable in a friendship and she doesn't agree and start to change her actions, there is no sense in spending time with her. Friends are supposed to be a positive thing, something you look forward to, that's why you choose them.

I have a feeling that she would take you seriously only if you told her "I am not hanging out with you today and this is why" and only then she might put an effort towards changing. Or not. Regardless, type is no excuse for poor behaviour. Plenty of INTJs are good friends.
 

tcda

psicobolche
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,292
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5
Why would you be friends with someone who calls you simple and boring? :s I would blow up and then end all contact with someone like that, and neither would I nor any of my friends who are NT's talk to someone like that unless they were really pissed off.

It doesn't sound like this "friend" is healthy if she talks to you like that, surely hang around with other people and tell this person to get psychological help :)

BTW does this friend come from a rich background (either that or she is severely socially retarded)? Usually that kind of arrogance can only be explained that way. I don't think it has much to do with type as most of my friends are NT's, and none treat people like that.
 
R

Riva

Guest
Good luck navigating social situations with this assumption in mind, really. :doh: Let's go one step further: it's women's fault when they get raped.

That is not what I meant at all.

And you are blowing things out of context.

What I meant was if a friend of you is treating you in a certain manner which is not acceptable but if you continue to let her treat you that way without telling her that she is doing something wrong or that you (the victim) doesn't like to be treated that way it is your fault for not standing up to her and saying how you feel.

-----------------------------

A woman being raped by a man is a totally different context. The two situations cannot be compared. They (rape is not) are not open for discussions.

-----------------------------

But of course you wouldn't understand the difference since you seem to believe that rape is a social situation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

Riva

Guest
IMHO - Don't rub anything in anybody's face and don't break anything off. As someone with a lot of experience with INTJ/ISFJ relationships, I can recommend that you just be direct and tell her how you feel. I think you don't like confrontation, which is understandable, but it doesn't need to be that way. INTJs like directness and honesty. They appreciate this.

She is probably just not thinking through things with the right lens. She probably has a great deal of respect for you and thinks you are capable of so much more. She sees your great interpersonal skills and wishes she had some of them. You need to educate her on what you want out of life and how your goals in life are different than hers.

I recommend that you read her replies. Before letting us know your words of wisdom.

She has already directly told her how she feels but it hasn't worked

She probably has a great deal of respect for you? well she has a nice way of showing it. [Sarcasm]
 
Top