[ISFJ] ISFJ -> caught between I and Fe

[Maldini]

Hi peeps,

I've always felt this underlying tension between wanting to socialise, be the "centre" of attention, being "popular" yet i never try to act on it and prefer my own "quiet" way of living. Ever since discovering MBTI, i guess i kind of understand why this happens to me now.

It's almost as if i want attention but do not feel its appropriate to do things to get attention. This has really got into my head now because sometimes i really do feel disappointed about myself or unhappy about my social life yet i can never seem to express such emotions or even act on it.

It just seems that i'm always on a different wavelength with peers and even friends, i often find myself "isolated" even though i do get the opportunities to do fun things with them. Sometimes i feel like they don't even know i'm there! The only place i really feel at "home" is at home where i get time to myself, although it is then that i get the urges to want to be with friends...

Any help from fellow members?

 

[Habba]

Hi peeps,

I've always felt this underlying tension between wanting to socialise, be the "centre" of attention, being "popular" yet i never try to act on it and prefer my own "quiet" way of living. Ever since discovering MBTI, i guess i kind of understand why this happens to me now.

This is pretty much the same to the letter what my ISFJ told me about MBTI when she first heard of it. She told me that finally she had an answer why she was feeling so shy and unsocial all the time. She was even feeling guilty about it.

It's almost as if i want attention but do not feel its appropriate to do things to get attention. This has really got into my head now because sometimes i really do feel disappointed about myself or unhappy about my social life yet i can never seem to express such emotions or even act on it.

Yeah, I very often feel like this. I wouldn't mind being more recognized in places I go (like school, work, events) and meeting more people. But then again, I very often feel that I'm not interesting enough or I have nothing to say or offer to other people. And some ENxPs just go out there, and immediatelly everyone likes them. Unfair.

The only place i really feel at "home" is at home where i get time to myself, although it is then that i get the urges to want to be with friends...

My ISFJ has quite a large ring of acquitances (Atleast for an introvert), and she feels sometimes very exhausted because of it. It's like it's her duty to meet them all once in a while and keep in touch, althougth she'd really like some time alone. She even felt guilty for wanting to spent some time alone when she was with her friends during a day-off from work. For some reason, she can't say no when someone is asking her to pay a visit, even though she'd dislike the company. It's as if she tried to please everyone as if it would be the right thing to do.

But there's no pleasing of everybody. And it most definitely isn't the right thing to do. The right thing to do, personality-wise, is to please oneself. Do whatever feels the best for yourself, and in the process, people around you will like you for being what you are. Pleasant people are nice, but interesting persons are popular.

Any help from fellow members?

Haven't seen you here before... Hi there! We don't have too many ISFJs around here.

 

[FDG]

Hi Maldini, are you the captain of Milan football team?

 

[Lambchop]

Hi peeps,

I've always felt this underlying tension between wanting to socialise, be the "centre" of attention, being "popular" yet i never try to act on it and prefer my own "quiet" way of living. Ever since discovering MBTI, i guess i kind of understand why this happens to me now.

It's almost as if i want attention but do not feel its appropriate to do things to get attention. This has really got into my head now because sometimes i really do feel disappointed about myself or unhappy about my social life yet i can never seem to express such emotions or even act on it.

It just seems that i'm always on a different wavelength with peers and even friends, i often find myself "isolated" even though i do get the opportunities to do fun things with them. Sometimes i feel like they don't even know i'm there! The only place i really feel at "home" is at home where i get time to myself, although it is then that i get the urges to want to be with friends...

Any help from fellow members?

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I want to have friends and I do have at least 5 really close ones. But I don't want to do all the social things they do. I REALLY like "my" time...epecially after a long week at work. I remember getting into a group of 3 other friends a couple of years ago (they were all younger than me...so I always felt somewhat "isolated" with them because of that and they were all E's.) They wanted to go do things all the time and be at parties and were part of a local social group. I would always get invited to stuff and feel like I HAD to go...but a lot of the time I didn't want to. I couldn't say no. It got to the point where I was skipping out a lot at the last minute because I just couldn't force myself to go and being perceived as "flaky", but I am SO not. I liked having the social options and being "popular", but I find I want to do social things on MY terms...and when I feel like it.

My close friend is getting married tonight and I am not feeling particularly social and it's a dry reception (which is a tad boring for me), but I am forcing myself to go because it's important to her and I want to see her happy. I really just needed a weekend of relaxation when she had her bachelorette party (and I hate those anyway), so I didn't go to that. I felt SOO guilty!

When I spend too much time alone...then I want to hang with friends. But after being told no so many times, the invitations kind of drop off and then they may have plans when I want to hang out. I've always had this love/hate relationship socially. Sometimes I will look forward to going out, but then just remain quiet the whole time, too and I don't know why.

And it just leads to being "misunderstood", which I feel like happens to me a lot too!

 

[Athenian200]

Hi peeps,

I've always felt this underlying tension between wanting to socialise, be the "centre" of attention, being "popular" yet i never try to act on it and prefer my own "quiet" way of living. Ever since discovering MBTI, i guess i kind of understand why this happens to me now.

It's almost as if i want attention but do not feel its appropriate to do things to get attention. This has really got into my head now because sometimes i really do feel disappointed about myself or unhappy about my social life yet i can never seem to express such emotions or even act on it.

It just seems that i'm always on a different wavelength with peers and even friends, i often find myself "isolated" even though i do get the opportunities to do fun things with them. Sometimes i feel like they don't even know i'm there! The only place i really feel at "home" is at home where i get time to myself, although it is then that i get the urges to want to be with friends...

Any help from fellow members?

No help, but I can offer you the knowledge that I feel EXACTLY the same way a lot of the time.

I'd think being all traditional/normal under the surface as well as above it would have helped you break into social groups, but it looks like your Introversion ended up making it harder after all.

The only thing I can suggest is trying to find a balance you like... maybe try meeting your friends in quieter settings, or smaller groups? That might work out better for you in the long run, because I know I personally get more out of situations like that than I do out of those large gatherings where I just hang back and feel overwhelmed.

 

[Giggly]

I too relate to maldini's post.

I'd think being all traditional/normal under the surface as well as above it would have helped you break into social groups, but it looks like your Introversion ended up making it harder after all.

It does help a little but like you said not always. I can imagine INFJ feeling that it's even harder.
Personally, I do best with close knit group of friends.

 

[Athenian200]

It does help a little but like you said not always. I can imagine INFJ feeling that it's even harder.
Personally, I do best with close knit group of friends.

Oh, yes, me too. I've just never managed to have one for very long because they always move away or something.

Well, except here. One of the reasons I got into computers was because I was hoping I could create a good A.I. and program them to care about and interact with me in unpredictable, human-like ways... because people were unreliable and didn't seem to like me anyway. This board is the closest I've gotten, but it uses real people connected via the Internet rather than A.Is.

 

[Totenkindly]

I've noticed a number of female ISFJ friends who like to be included and want to be known they're accepted but left to their own devices have a really really hard time not withdrawing into a tiny safe world of their own.

Since they're married, they have an easy out -- they just withdraw into a world comprised of spouse and children (and work, if they work outside the home) and otherwise, despite wanting to have close friendships, the I wins out over the Fe (or maybe it works in conjunction with the Fe... they're trying to "not impose" on other people's lives with their own desires and needs) and they live what seems to be a very isolated life. The first "location" of interest and dedication is their family and other relationships tend to not be that invested in.

 

[NewEra]

Hi peeps,

I've always felt this underlying tension between wanting to socialise, be the "centre" of attention, being "popular" yet i never try to act on it and prefer my own "quiet" way of living. Ever since discovering MBTI, i guess i kind of understand why this happens to me now.

It's almost as if i want attention but do not feel its appropriate to do things to get attention. This has really got into my head now because sometimes i really do feel disappointed about myself or unhappy about my social life yet i can never seem to express such emotions or even act on it.

It just seems that i'm always on a different wavelength with peers and even friends, i often find myself "isolated" even though i do get the opportunities to do fun things with them. Sometimes i feel like they don't even know i'm there! The only place i really feel at "home" is at home where i get time to myself, although it is then that i get the urges to want to be with friends...

Any help from fellow members?

I'm different in that I don't care about being popular or wanting to please others by being someone that I'm not. This is the positive of having very low Fe. I care about what I myself think is important, I don't owe others obligations or duties that they haven't given me before, I owe myself first.

 

[Giggly]

I've noticed a number of female ISFJ friends who like to be included and want to be known they're accepted but left to their own devices have a really really hard time not withdrawing into a tiny safe world of their own.

Since they're married, they have an easy out -- they just withdraw into a world comprised of spouse and children (and work, if they work outside the home) and otherwise, despite wanting to have close friendships, the I wins out over the Fe (or maybe it works in conjunction with the Fe... they're trying to "not impose" on other people's lives with their own desires and needs) and they live what seems to be a very isolated life. The first "location" of interest and dedication is their family and other relationships tend to not be that invested in.

Yes, I think that's true.

 

[Lambchop]

Yes, I think that's true.

I agree with this as well.

 

[Maldini]

I think it is less "wanting to be popular" but more about just wanting some sort of appreciation from friends and peers.

I also find that i can be extremely carefree when playing sports with some friends, where i can just let myself go and do whatever i feel like, laugh like crazy, say stupid things or whatever. However, when it comes to situations that are deemed "i must socialise in", i tend to sink back into my own world and find it hard to be on the same wavelength with the extrovert friends around me.

For example, i can just play football (soccer) with a handful of friends, have a great time etc, yet take the same friends and place us all in a dinner setting, i'll be quiet for the whole night.

Perhaps this could be a result of trying to stick to whatever is deemed as "social norms", yet my introversion kind of gets in the way of me really enjoying myself.

(And yes, my name is the now retired captain of ac milan, nice pick up)

 

[KLessard]

I would always get invited to stuff and feel like I HAD to go...but a lot of the time I didn't want to. I couldn't say no. It got to the point where I was skipping out a lot at the last minute because I just couldn't force myself to go and being perceived as "flaky", but I am SO not. I liked having the social options and being "popular", but I find I want to do social things on MY terms...and when I feel like it.

My close friend is getting married tonight and I am not feeling particularly social and it's a dry reception (which is a tad boring for me), but I am forcing myself to go because it's important to her and I want to see her happy. I really just needed a weekend of relaxation when she had her bachelorette party (and I hate those anyway), so I didn't go to that. I felt SOO guilty!

When I spend too much time alone...then I want to hang with friends. But after being told no so many times, the invitations kind of drop off and then they may have plans when I want to hang out. I've always had this love/hate relationship socially. Sometimes I will look forward to going out, but then just remain quiet the whole time, too and I don't know why.

And it just leads to being "misunderstood", which I feel like happens to me a lot too!

Must I understand that if the ISFJ is saying no or cancelling and is difficult to reach out to, it's not to be taken personally, and it's not phoney when he/she was being kind and friendly with you? (That's the feeling I get-the phoney thing).

Did it ever occur to you that your friends felt despised after you ignored or rejected their efforts and invitations many times? Should we keep trying and trying if the ISFJ doesn't seem to care or cooperate?

Please explain how you see yourself as not flaky.

This thread does help me understand the ISFJ, but man, does it makes me feel hopeless about being friends with them!

 

[Snow Turtle]

You have to take into account that many ISFJs already act from a nice and friendly mode from the start, so while that may be sincere, other people may read into those attitudes as being more than there really is. Thus an ISFJ may be cancelling on another person because they honestly aren't interested, but when meeting up with a person in person, they are willing to engage and be civil because there's always an element of friendship there. It's just very weak if they are constantly rejecting offers to meet up. Alternatively it is possible that they honestly are just busy, and are having problems time-managing their lives.

Introversion also forces a person to be more withdrawn and in their mind, so they are less willing to head out, unless of course, the event is very important to their friend who they desire to spend time with.

 

[KLessard]

You have to take into account that many ISFJs already act from a nice and friendly mode from the start, so while that may be sincere, other people may read into those attitudes as being more than there really is. Thus an ISFJ may be cancelling on another person because they honestly aren't interested, but when meeting up with a person in person, they are willing to engage and be civil because there's always an element of friendship there. It's just very weak if they are constantly rejecting offers to meet up. Alternatively it is possible that they honestly are just busy, and are having problems time-managing their lives.

Introversion also forces a person to be more withdrawn and in their mind, so they are less willing to head out, unless of course, the event is very important to their friend who they desire to spend time with.

What really hurts me about the ISFJ I have in mind, is that she gives her word and never keeps it, and acts as if there was nothing there afterwards. Doesn't even seem to remember.

I ask her "Can we keep in touch?" and she goes "Sure!" but I'm used to her way so I stare at her and say: "Will you answer if I write?" and then her face changes.

I can't help finding that "unreliable" describes her to a hair.

The conclusion this thread seems to lead to is that interaction with the ISFJ depends on the subject's whimsical social cravings.

 

[Snow Turtle]

What really hurts me about the ISFJ I have in mind, is that she gives her word and never keeps it, and acts as if there was nothing there afterwards. Doesn't even seem to remember.

I ask her "Can we keep in touch?" and she goes "Sure!" but I'm used to her way so I stare at her and say: "Will you answer if I write?" and then her face changes and I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.

I can't help finding that "flaky" describes her to a hair.

There there. If it helps, sometimes SJs are known for being overly pessimistic. So take my words with a pinch of salt.

What really hurts me about the ISFJ I have in mind, is that she gives her word and never keeps it, and acts as if there was nothing there afterwards. Doesn't even seem to remember.

This seems to be more of an individual trait, as for me, a promise is something that I'll follow till the end even if it doesn't always make sense to follow things anymore (I'll be there for you forever). It's part of my loyal trait. It's the reason that I rarely ever make promises to other people, because if I know I can't keep them, then I'll just keep silent.

Perhaps it's the best idea to confront her on her promises? Though I'd imagine you might have already done so, what is her reaction?

 

[KLessard]

Perhaps it's the best idea to confront her on her promises? Though I'd imagine you might have already done so, what is her reaction?

I'm afraid to do that. She isn't really a friend, more of a very meaningful acquaintance to me, and I do know that she means tons more to me than I could mean to her. But my efforts seem to move and puzzle her. When I approach her and she is busy or something, I withdraw and I don't insist. I say, "Never mind," and I'm very respectful of her business. Then she starts wanting to help and be cooperative, and then gives her word not to keep it afterwards.

I once wrote to her and pointed out to my disappointment about her actions (that was many years ago). She answered she was sorry and didn't know I was so important to her, but didn't know what I was talking about. She shared some hardships she had been through and that could partially explain why she had her mind on other things, and I wrote back, being very understanding and encouraging. I also explained what I had meant, but she didn't write back. I got a somewhat impersonal Christmas card a few months later and that was it for years.

A similar pattern took place again in October, and I am still hurting real bad about it all. I wish she would just be honest and tell me she doesn't care.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I'm afraid to do that. She isn't really a friend, more of a very meaningful acquaintance to me, and I do know that she means tons more to me than I could mean to her. But my efforts seem to move and puzzle her. When I approach her and she is busy or something, I withdraw and I don't insist. I say, "Never mind," and I'm very respectful of her business. Then she starts wanting to help and be cooperative, and then gives her word not to keep it afterwards.

I once wrote to her and pointed out to my disappointment about her actions (that was many years ago). She answered she was sorry and didn't know I was so important to her, but didn't know what I was talking about. She shared some hardships she had been through and that could partially explain why she had her mind on other things, and I wrote back, being very understanding and encouraging. I also explained what I had meant, but she didn't write back. I got a somewhat impersonal Christmas card a few months later and that was it for years.

A similar pattern took place again in October, and I am still hurting real bad about it all. I wish she would just be honest and tell me she doesn't care.

Uhh... I'd suggest becoming a friend with her.

I'll be honest, I don't know how she operates in regards to friendship, but if she's like me with acquaintances, then I'm sorry to say that you will definitely always be dissappointed.

For me, there is very little in-between stranger and loyal friend. Bluntly put, I don't do acquaintances with people. Acquaintances are the people I'll see in my daily life, say hi, but drift out of mind when I'm not in contact with them. Effectively it's the same as being a co-worker. There is little interest in investing in a relationship that has no potential and is not going anywhere

It's true that ISFJs care very much for friends and family, but for strangers/co-workers/acquaintances, we're just nice. These days, I just tell these people: "I'll catch you sometime in the next few months" rather than telling them that we'll have to catch up. Perhaps you should confront her on these nice but unrealistic promises.

In this context, her apology there seems somewhat impersonal, more of an apology for hurting someone, than the fact that she hurt a closed one.

 

[KLessard]

Uhh... I'd suggest becoming a friend with her.

I'll be honest, I don't know how she operates in regards to friendship, but if she's like me with acquaintances, then I'm sorry to say that you will definitely always be dissappointed.

For me, there is very little in-between stranger and loyal friend. Bluntly put, I don't do acquaintances with people. Acquaintances are the people I'll see in my daily life, say hi, but drift out of mind when we aren't in contact with them. Effectively it's the same as being a co-worker. There is no interest for me to invest in a friendship that is not going anywhere, there is little potential. ISFJs care very much for friends and family, but for strangers/co-workers/acquaintances, we're just nice.

Her apology there seems somewhat impersonal when you put it in that context, more of an apology for hurting someone unintentionally.

I'm trying to befriend her, that's what my efforts are all about, but I'm not sure how to do that, and I think my N language may be hard to read for her. The other problem is that we live in two different provinces, so interactions would be very rare.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I'm trying to befriend her, that's what my efforts are all about, but I'm not sure how to do that, and I think my N language may be hard to read for her. The other problem is that we live in two different provinces, so interactions would be very rare.

I'm a little confused about the dynamics of your friendship. Does she actually consider you a close friend, or just a casual friend that she vaguely knows?

Unfortunately I've got little suggestion on how to break the friendship barrier, since I know I'm rather selective when it comes to who I want in my close group. It's based on how much potential I see in the friendship.

You could explicitedly state that you'd like to be much closer friends, showing your true intentions about the relationship. Normally this would be reserved for the whole boyfriend and girlfriend, but in this case, it sounds like you might as well do something equivalent. If you haven't discussed about how close you are as friends, then it'd probably be a good idea to do so. As a fellow FJ, I don't see how difficult it would be for you to click with her.

The long-distance thing does sound like a huge problem. She may be extremely out-of-sight-out-of-mind sort of person. For me, the only people that I've kept online contact with is my INFJ friend, whom I've known for 7 years, and an INTP that I regularly talk to (because it's low maintance).