• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] How to tell the difference between ISTJ and INTJ.

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
I wouldn't mind getting on the bad side of an INTJ, they would probably wander off muttering to themselves how stupid people can be.

On the other hand an ISTJ, would probably be in your face about it and won't leave until the situation is resolved.

It can be a good thing on both sides, one decides it's not worth it to argue, the other will accomplish something from it.

Babe, i would seriously advise against it. Lol. Unless you enjoy being ripped to pieces as your views are different/wrong. ;)

Eh... I wouldn't be so sure. I'd rather be on the bad side of a fellow ISTJ than an INTJ. The INTJs seem more like heartless strategists than the ISTJ who can find more practical things to do than plan for revenge.

+ 1
 

Take Five

Supreme Allied Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
925
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Personally I've never really understood the "to be a good leader you have to be a good follower" maxim. INTJs tend to be good leaders because they are goal-oriented, pragmatic, adaptable and very strategic. With everything they ask themselves "How does this serve the goal, and the critical path to that goal?" If it doesn't, they ditch it and try something else. They don't have a problem with confrontation, yet aren't especially egotistical (at least, not where the goal is concerned) and so are open to suggestion.

Factors in why they make such poor followers:
1. high value on autonomy
2. intolerant of fuzzy thinking, especially when it hinders the goal
3. often offend leaders when objecting to #2 through lack of diplomacy
4. natural leadership qualities when coupled with the underrated charisma of this type can lead to them accumulating a following of people disgruntled with the current leadership (or creating one), especially if they are in a position which denies them a realistic ability to change policy
5. unforgiving of leadership mistakes
6. generally unhappy doing as they're told if it seems to them to hinder the goal. The reasons for doing something may be ultimately sound and may involve more factors than the INTJ is aware of, but until the INTJ discovers this for themselves they will be unhappy with perceived inefficiency. Some leaders may be fine with explaining how things fit in to the bigger picture, but most probably won't.

There are more, but this post is too long already.

I haven't really addressed ISTJs here, but in general I'd say they are more focused on doing things the right way than doing the right things. More concerned with process than with the goal, though that's an oversimplification.


Unless of course doing the right things is the right way to do and act. :newwink:
 

matmos

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,714
MBTI Type
NICE
An old pal of mine, a former soldier and ISTJ, seemed to typify the cross-wires in communication between the two. I noticed he rarely challenged convention and rather resented suggetions on how things could be improved. Radical ideas that I floated such as legalising hard drugs, he used to respond with horror, which amused me enough to try even more radical (and shocking) suggestions. For the lulz.

To be fair, he usually spotted the wind-up, albeit late on in the gag. On a few occasion he tried the same ploy back, using an equally controversial hook that he knew I wouldn't "approve of", such as "The Saudis are right to hang drug smugglers..." Just for fun I used to agree, which pissed him off even more. :)
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Pay attention to what they boast about.

My boyfriend's father (INTJ) can chatter like a magpie on the right topic. Ask him anything involving martial arts, nutrition & fitness, or Eastern medicine/philosophy and he'll tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

His ISTJ brother on the other hand can discuss alcohol, his beloved Chevy, or his government job with equal zest and confidence.

Add: It should be noted that while his brother LOVES his government badge and the perks it entails, his father wavers between disgust and indifference towards it.
 
Last edited:

Habba

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
988
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
ISTJs have better sense of humor.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
When looking for any NJ type, I test to see if I feel something "strange" about them. NJs have the strangest mental-structures.

Different than Ps.

In the way that SJs have a defined idea of what life should be like, NJs also have a solidly-built idea, but on bizarre info.

Even when they might appear outwardly normal and SJish, getting to know them shows a quite different mental-process, that almost "feels" different. (Letting you know my hocus-pocus NJ verification skills.)

On the off-chance that an ISTJ is "weird," he or she will still have a somewhat reasonable thought-structure, even if unconventional. Hard to explain.

But yes, INTJs and ISTJs can look very similar on the surface.
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
While ISTJ will simply be boring to an INTJ instead of annoying.

Boring and/or annoying. Strictly following rules + concentrating on seemingly unimportant details = annoying for some intuitives. Not for me though, I always play as the lawful knight in D&D :laugh:

ISTJs have better sense of humor.

If I simply say "no", does that make me humorless? :unsure:
 

Exodus

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
24
MBTI Type
NeTi
I wouldn't mind getting on the bad side of an INTJ, they would probably wander off muttering to themselves how stupid people can be.

On the other hand an ISTJ, would probably be in your face about it and won't leave until the situation is resolved.

It can be a good thing on both sides, one decides it's not worth it to argue, the other will accomplish something from it.

An INTJ is quite possibly the worst enemy to make. You are correct, we will walk away, although not muttering about how stupid someone is.

We will come at you sideways, we will find ingenious and insiduous ways to destroy you. We are creators of systems, we excel at understanding how something works, we are equally good at deconstruction.

While you believe the problem has passed, the INTJ has already set in motion your destruction.

Want to know why the major villians in almost every movie are INTJs? Think about that one for a few. :devil:
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Want to know why the major villians in almost every movie are INTJs? Think about that one for a few. :devil:
Because movies need super-smart villians whose plans go hilariously awry at the end.
 

Two Point Two

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
200
MBTI Type
INTJ
About INTJ enemies - I think they're only bad enemies if they want to do something nasty - and if their tertiary Fi will let them. Frankly, I have no respect for revenge, and would not participate in it.

As for why villains are so often INTJs...I always figured it was because

1) Introvertes are weird, antisocial, uncooperative and therefore evil
2) Intuitives are strange, want to change structures that work just fine, and think on the 'global' scale
3) Thinkers are objective and do not understand the power of empathy, love or compassion
4) Judgers are manipulative and will bend the world to their will, perhaps by implementing complex long-term plans

Now, of course, that's all tongue in cheek - it hardly needs saying, but I don't think INTJs are really like that and I don't think the majority of non-INTJs think that INTJs are really like that. But, you can see how you could take some INTJ attributes and just warp them a little bit to get a fairly typical villain.
 

FallaciaSonata

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
That has a lot to do with society's view of introverted people as well. Even within my own "circle" of people that I know, a lot of them think I need to be more social. Even though I've attempted to explain to them why I am not, they still insist on "breaking me out of my shell".

....When will it occur to them that I like my "shell"? *rolls eyes*

You seldom hear negativity about extroverts in the world, anyway. If you're one of those, especially if you're the happy-go-lucky type, people think you're just awesome. The insanity needs to stop.




.....I say we write our own script, and create an ESFP villain!
 

raz

Let's make this showy!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,523
MBTI Type
LoLz
You have a circle of people? I'm jealous. :p People just get intimidated when you're able to keep to yourself without needing other people to function. I'm just very introverted. Right now, I'm trying to force myself to verbalize my thought process. It feels so stupid, but apparently people need to hear what you're doing as you're doing it.

A lot of people are just easily impress-able. It's kind of boring, actually. Then, most of the people that are not easily impress-able aren't very practical. It's funny.
 

AutumnReverie

New member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
327
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
That has a lot to do with society's view of introverted people as well. Even within my own "circle" of people that I know, a lot of them think I need to be more social. Even though I've attempted to explain to them why I am not, they still insist on "breaking me out of my shell".

....When will it occur to them that I like my "shell"? *rolls eyes*

You seldom hear negativity about extroverts in the world, anyway. If you're one of those, especially if you're the happy-go-lucky type, people think you're just awesome. The insanity needs to stop.
YES YES YES. Just Friday night, I was telling one of my friends how I wanted to just stay in and have some alone time (instead of going out and socializing with a bunch of friends, like I've been doing previous Friday nights). And my friend STILL told me that I needed to be more social and kept telling me to go out. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand that some people like alone time. It's nice and relaxing.

And I get the whole "breaking me out of my shell" thing a lot from extroverted friends. And I continue to tell them that I actually like my "shell" and I'm fine being in it :laugh:

I completely agree with the natural positive opinion towards extroverts and negative opinion towards introverts (mostly by those who don't even know about the MBTI). Villains are almost always introverts. Or, in movies, introverts are always miserable by themselves until an extremely bubbly extroverted person brings them out of their shell and makes them more extroverted, then the introvert changes himself/herself and is very happy about it. ;)

And no one ever hears an introverted person telling an extroverted person that he/she needs to "break into his/her shell" :laugh:
 

FallaciaSonata

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Now there's an interesting thought.... "Hey, you! Yeah, the overly-talkative one. You really need to go find your shell and hang out in there for a bit."

....that would go over like a turd in a punchbowl. :D

Oh, and Raz....that circle was in quotes, and I probably should have expounded on that. What I mean by "circle of people that I know" is the group of people I generally get thrust together with in most of my "required" activities. (I can't avoid being around people at college and work....that's next to impossible.)

So, back to the villain comment, do you think it's possible that it's another case of "people fearing what they do not know"? Perhaps people hold themselves in high regard, and in order for something to be evil, it must be opposite (or at minimum drastically different). If this is indeed the case, this would show that the vast majority of the population is extroverted.

But I've heard otherwise.....I've heard it's pretty split --- about 50/50. But I've also heard it's mostly extroverted. I've also heard it depends on which culture you're looking at. I've also come to the conclusion that I'm a bit confused. ; )

Let's just say the population is 50/50, Introverted and Extroverted. Going by my bogus theory, half of all movie directors would be introverted and they would most likely make an extroverted villain. (Opposite applies). This would mean 50% of all movies with a villain would have an extroverted villain.

Obviously this is not the case. But then again, aren't most movies made in extroverted dominant societies? (Most notably the US and Europe)? I can't speak for Europe as much seeing how I've never been there, but I've been told a lot of other countries watch American-made movies.

America is dominantly extroverted, without a doubt. So, then, wouldn't most of our movies show that? (After all, movies are a big part of the entertainment culture around here.)


Any thoughts on that? I know I went out on a limb there, but it's for the sake of discussion.
 

FallaciaSonata

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Ah, should have put this in the last post, but.....here goes.

Can anyone think of few movies with extroverted villainous characters in them? Now that I think about it, I'm curious. I don't watch much TV, but I've seen a good bit in my lifetime.....and I can't seem to recall an extroverted villain. (Although I think I can recall a few introverted heroes.)
 

poppy

triple nerd score
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,215
MBTI Type
intj
Enneagram
5
Can anyone think of few movies with extroverted villainous characters in them?

Innnnglourious Basterds! The villain in that is quite definitely ENTX.

*flips through movie collection*

The majority of villains definitely seem to be introverts.
:(
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Again, debatable.

No, that's pretty certain. "Intellectual" tends to imply a more abstract type of intelligence like INTJ's have.

ISTJs can be extremely intelligent without being "intellectual."

Different kinds of "smart" are necessary to make the world go round. Don't fight about it. ;)
 

FallaciaSonata

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
1w9
INTELLECTUAL

–adjective
1. appealing to or engaging the intellect: intellectual pursuits.
2. of or pertaining to the intellect or its use: intellectual powers.
3. possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, esp. to a high degree: an intellectual person.
4. guided or developed by or relying on the intellect rather than upon emotions or feelings; rational.
5. characterized by or suggesting a predominance of intellect: an intellectual way of speaking.
–noun
6. a person of superior intellect.
7. a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, esp. on an abstract and general level.
8. an extremely rational person; a person who relies on intellect rather than on emotions or feelings.
9. a person professionally engaged in mental labor, as a writer or teacher.
10. intellectuals, Archaic.
a. the mental faculties.
b. things pertaining to the intellect.

INTELLECT

–noun
1. the power or faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands, as distinguished from that by which one feels and that by which one wills; the understanding; the faculty of thinking and acquiring knowledge.
2. capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, esp. of a high or complex order; mental capacity.
3. a particular mind or intelligence, esp. of a high order.
4. a person possessing a great capacity for thought and knowledge.
5. minds collectively, as of a number of persons or the persons themselves.


Minus the "on an abstract or general level" bit, this could apply to anyone who seeks knowledge.....myself included. I would not yet give myself the label of "intellectual", but I would consider labeling myself as being "in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom, to the point of addiction". :D

So there you have it. I don't think that term is just for more abstract types of intelligence. (Slightly unrelated, but I got Intellectual as my 2nd "strength" in "Tom Rath's StrengthsFinder 2.0" book.)

I also read somewhere that ISTJs become "smarter," or "more valuable" with age, because the Si "hard drive of information" gets continually larger and more detailed with time. Cool, huh?
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
MBTI Type
ISTJ
I found out my Uncle is an INTJ today. We get along really well and have similar sense of humor. I knew we were close MBTI types (I had previously thought he was ISTJ or ESTJ) I thought it was cool though. :cheers:
 
Top