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[MBTI General] STJ's-Crying/seeing people upset

INTPness

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I have a grandfather and a very good friend who are ISTJ's. I don't think my friend has ever seen me show any sort of feelings/emotions (and I get the sense if I ever did show much emotion he wouldn't know what to do), but my grandfather has - when I've been in very difficult situations in life or when we've been at the bedside of an ill family member, etc. Whenever I, or another family member has cried in front of him, he seems to look the other way as if to say, "Oh jeez. What do I do now?" In the case of the ill family member in the hospital, I could tell by looking at him that he was very much affected and feeling something, but he remained very composed.

Also, with a couple of ESTJ family members, they also seem a bit uncomfortable when someone in the family cries or gets upset. Come to think of it, I've seen my ISTJ grandfather cry one time in my life, that I can remember, and the ESTJ male family member twice (both instances involved someone passing away). I only remember my ESTJ sister crying once when I told her that I really cared about her more than she knows. Even in these rare instance, the crying/emotions were very controlled.

What is the thought process when someone cries or in heavy situations? Is it the "get me outta here - anywhere but here" type of feeling? Or is it more like, "look at this panzy - can't he control himself?" Or something entirely different?
 

INTPness

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I would add that some INTP's seem to be less likely to show emotion than myself, so I can't really speak for all INTP's when I say this, but from my viewpoint crying is a very natural human emotion. I'm not inclined to cry very often, but it does happen from time to time. And if someone around me cries, I want to understand what is going on inside of them so that I can try to be of some comfort. The last thing I would want to do if someone is crying is to turn a cheek or just walk away. That's why I'm interested to know what the thought process is.
 

Fidelia

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I'm going to take a stab at this one to see if I've understood correctly what has been said so far in the other threads. My vote is for the "get me outta here, anywhere but here" option. It appears that this discomfort has more to do with the STJ being unsure of what is expected or how they should handle the situation. Since they don't do much outward emoting it is harder to imagine the thought process that would lead you there or how you may prefer to be comforted. I wonder too if it's about something that affects both the STJ and the other person if it borders on becoming too vulnerable themselves, which is extremely uncomfortable to them.

Well folks, what's the real answer?
 

Amira

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What is the thought process when someone cries or in heavy situations? Is it the "get me outta here - anywhere but here" type of feeling? Or is it more like, "look at this panzy - can't he control himself?" Or something entirely different?

Neither of those, really. I am a girl so I think guy STJs are quite different in how they handle emotion. Personally if it is a kid crying because they just hurt themselves I just make them feel better ASAP in a calm manner and try to comfort them while fixing whatever it is. Adults, I have been grumpy if I thought (read: Knew from past history) that someone was crying just to get sympathy and manipulate everyone. Even in that case I try to be kind, just not coddle them at all and not kowtow because of the fake tears. Otherwise, if someone is crying then I am sympathetic and try to offer a shoulder/pat backs/hand tissues, etc. It's difficult, but I think grief makes everyone feel awkward, so one just has to accept that fact.

If someone is in a heavy mood of anger or frustration or depressed or even is sublimely happy or another type of "almost palpable" emotion, then yeah I do get kind of like a cat on a hot tin roof. Weddings, for example, make me cry watching people who are so completely in love with each other. It's beautiful and makes me want to cry like a baby from joy, but I'd rather not have other people see me do that... I would feel completely and horribly vulnerable myself if I cried a lot in front of a lot of people and I would hate to burden uninvolved people with the extent of whatever negative emotions I might have. Rather than thinking someone is a pansy for openly showing deep emotion I usually think they are brave to be able to do that. I have to plan that sort of thing in order to get up enough emotional energy. Basically, its often easier for me to deal with other people's intense emotion than it is to expose mine.
 

Fidelia

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Well explained! Thank you.

Are there any guy STJs out there who are willing to explain their side of the story?
 

Amira

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You're welcome :) And as far as looking the other way type things, if they are there and still involved in the situation then it may be the same thing as me starting to doodle or biting my cheek - just a temporary reminding my brain that I can think of something besides the overpowering emotions I am feeling, thus getting back in control again. My ISTJ older brother seems like his emotions are a lot farther under the surface, but I'm guessing the process is similar just a lot less conscious? C'mon guys, we know you love talking about E.M.O.T.I.O.N.S. so please come tell us! :hug: :wubbie: :cry:


Yes, I'm sassy sometimes. :devil:
 

Matthew_Z

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Since Amira pretty much hit the nail on the head for ISTJs and sadness, I'm going to go off a side tangent.

One emotion I've never really been able to understand is anger, especially when it manifests itself as rage. It has the remarkable ability to allow a person to ignore all repercussions of a situation. For instance, the feeling of wanting to kill the woman(I only use a woman to make a slight point about sexism in the criminal justice system, as well as a point about the idea that sexual bias that men are murderers.) who takes the life of someone dear to you. In this situation, killing the woman will likely result in you going to jail. In addition, inducing anger is a very effective interrogation technique. In short, judgment-clouding emotions never seemed useful to me. I don't believe anyone in my circle of friends has ever seen me angry.
 

LadyJaye

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The ISTJ's in my life seem to care for me deeply, but the emotions portion does make them visibly uncomfortable. My ISTJ sister goes a bit rigid every time I hug her, though she doesn't make a move to get away, and she doesn't seem upset by the display of affection. It's just not her style, I guess. Not to say that I go around hanging off of her like a monkey, but you get the idea.

I've also been told by my ESTJ parent that high states, like anger and weeping, make her feel helpless, like she doesn't know what to do to make it stop. A loved one is in distress, and she feels a bit frozen up by the emotional component.
 

INTPness

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Interesting. Thanks for your responses. Amira, it was interesting that at the beginning of your explanation you mentioned that people might be trying to manipulate. I could be wrong, but I think that's possibly where some STJ's go wrong. I know that some people do use crying to get their way, but it seems that STJ's almost see the situation as someone maybe trying to get them out of their normal ways. Almost like the STJ's first thought is "I can't lose my composure here, no matter how upset they get." Instead of stepping out of themselves for a moment to think, "what is really at the heart of the issue here. How can I help this person?" I'm not trying to criticize, it's more just an observation. It appears "cold" and maybe uncaring to others, but your explanations have helped me understand better.

Matthew, I agree with your inability to understand rage. Being an NT (logical by nature), I always check myself when I get angry to make sure that I don't do anything that I would later regret. I think you're probably better at that than me though, because when I'm living in "N" world, I can overlook details and be really caught up in the moment. Examples that come to mind are when someone has done something really horrible to someone in my family. Someone VERY close to me was struck square in the face for NO REASON at all (it was a total misunderstanding on the other person's part) and when it was pointed out that the person completely handled it wrong, they were still malicious and defending their actions with harsh words. It was a complete and blantant violation of another human being that means the world to me. In those situations, 50% of me is thinking like you - don't do anything stupid, let the authorities handle it, etc. The other 50% of me is thinking, "I want to show this person what it feels like to have that same thing happen to them."

Looking back, I still feel bad for the way I handled it. I told the person (an adult), that I was going to beat the crap out of their nerdy son (who was my age - about 10 at the time) for no reason at all so they could see their loved one hurt for no reason. It was wrong - I don't believe in returning evil for evil, but at the moment, I was definitely experiencing rage for the violation of my family member.

Correction: I said "that might be where some STJ's go WRONG". Wrong verbage. It's not about being "right or wrong". I was just trying to understand and also trying to explain why some people might see the reaction as "cold". My bad, my bad - cut me some slack.
 

d@v3

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It really depends on who it is. If it's someone I know is doing it for attention I just get the "get me out of here, anywhere but here!" panic feeling. :peepwall: But if it's someone who is truly hurting, I could never turn away unless it was someone I didn't care about or someone who didn't deserve the sympathy. :devil:

But by default, I try to make the person feel better using words. (In other words, I do NOT give out free bear hugs unless it is someone I'm "close" to.) :) But yeah, I try to make the person feel better. If I do feel actions are necessary, I use indirect actions, like taking the person out for dinner or something or getting them a small gift or even just doing something nice for them like helping them with a project or something. It's my way of making someone feel better without the instigating any more "emotional" responses from the individual. ;)
 

Fidelia

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I've noticed several STJs refer to having no sympathy for people who cry to get attention. Is this really common in your experience? I don't think I could even fill up one hand with people I have known who do that. Is there some kind of inherent suspicion about cry-ers trying to manipulate you? (I tried spelling it the other way, but that looked like town criers.) Perhaps there is a general misunderstanding of the real reason the person is crying.

What kind of emotional responses do you feel that you may instigate by using more direct actions? In my parents' case, my dad will just empty the garbage way more and do the dishes when they've had a misunderstanding. This feels like trying to pay for something at the gas station with a side of beef. Beef is great, it's worth money, it's certainly better than driving away without paying anything, and there's nothing like a good roast, but they don't take that currency there. Some people will be willing to accept that you tried to make them feel better, but in some cases, something more direct is needed and you may instigate more emotional responses using the indirect manner.

I'm not saying that indirect actions are not appreciated and noted. I just wonder if sometimes something more needs to happen.
 
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d@v3

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Your certainly right in that, I have definitley had my indirect actions backfire on me! It sucks. But after it happens, I am forced to use the direct actions approach and doll out a bear hug (usually against my will) with a smile on my face.

Have you really not met someone who cried to get attention? When you say "cry" I mean "whine,cry,gripe,complain" and all of the above. There is definitely a significant different between crying out of sadness and crying out of self-pity and attention.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have compassion, because you should. But if you are too compassionate, people WILL take advantage of you. I have seen it too many times as my family is full of NF's and I catch an awful lot of people who try to take advantage of how "nice" they are. And the NF's don't even realize what's happening until it's too late! :doh:

It's not really about paying for something, it's about doing what's right vs. what's wrong, being selfless rather than selfish. And xSTJ's have an inate tendency to be keen on right and wrong. ;)
 

Amira

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Interesting. Thanks for your responses. Amira, it was interesting that at the beginning of your explanation you mentioned that people might be trying to manipulate. I could be wrong, but I think that's possibly where some STJ's go wrong. I know that some people do use crying to get their way, but it seems that STJ's almost see the situation as someone maybe trying to get them out of their normal ways. Almost like the STJ's first thought is "I can't lose my composure here, no matter how upset they get." Instead of stepping out of themselves for a moment to think, "what is really at the heart of the issue here. How can I help this person?" I'm not trying to criticize, it's more just an observation. It appears "cold" and maybe uncaring to others, but your explanations have helped me understand better.

You have good points here. I should probably clarify that I was thinking of one specific person I know and used to work with. She did not really want to be working and would do things such as call people and say in a really pitiful voice that she had to go to the emergency room and could we cover her hours today? Later we would discover she went for a splinter in her finger (literally) and it was really irritating. She did this sort of thing more than a dozen times while I worked with her and I eventually stopped saying "hi, how's it going" when she called. In self defense I had to instead say something like "hi, how are you, I'm sooo busy today, but did you need something?" Everyone got tired of it. I rarely run into people like that, though.
 

Fidelia

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Some do stuff for attention, but usually because some bigger need of theirs isn't being taken care of. If that gets looked at, they quit doing it as much.

Yes, you are right that some NFs have a tendancy to not draw boundaries clearly and therefore are taken advantage of. I probably tend to give people the benefit of the doubt a little more than some of my SJ friends, but I have learned that it is also very important to have strong boundaries and pull back or call it what it is when they are crossed.

NFs tend to make more distinction between a bad behaviour and what is motivating it, rather than seeing it in clearcut terms of right and wrong. If they think that the motivation was fine, but the way of handling it wasn't, they'll cut the person more slack. They will give the other person a chance to modify their behaviour once the person understands what they are doing and how it is perceived. If this is warning is ignored, then they are cut off. I think SJs go directly to that point more quickly because they take the behaviour more at face value.

Sometimes F types do need to get rid of their excess feelings because those are what is experienced first. This may come out in a form that SJs perceive to be "crying". In reality, it is a way to get done with those feelings so that they can get on with actively solving the problem. It's sort of like a tree fell in their pathway and they have to clear the road before they can continue on. When an SJ sees this as self-pity and attention getting behaviour, it feels like not only are they standing there watching you try to move the tree off the road by yourself, but they are also felling more of them for you to clear.
 

d@v3

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Yeah, I guess it is more between taking things at face value and feeling that if someone is "crying" for attention, then they are naive and need to get over it. My compassion extends to those who really need it. Otherwise, I may say a few words of encouragement, but then I will just leave. I know it's kind of mean but... that's how I am I guess. :-/
 

Fidelia

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I want to be sure that I am understanding this accurately. Would you mind giving an example of crying for attention and a situation worthy of compassion? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I would like to know what your perception is of both.
 

NewEra

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I have a grandfather and a very good friend who are ISTJ's. I don't think my friend has ever seen me show any sort of feelings/emotions (and I get the sense if I ever did show much emotion he wouldn't know what to do), but my grandfather has - when I've been in very difficult situations in life or when we've been at the bedside of an ill family member, etc. Whenever I, or another family member has cried in front of him, he seems to look the other way as if to say, "Oh jeez. What do I do now?" In the case of the ill family member in the hospital, I could tell by looking at him that he was very much affected and feeling something, but he remained very composed.

Also, with a couple of ESTJ family members, they also seem a bit uncomfortable when someone in the family cries or gets upset. Come to think of it, I've seen my ISTJ grandfather cry one time in my life, that I can remember, and the ESTJ male family member twice (both instances involved someone passing away). I only remember my ESTJ sister crying once when I told her that I really cared about her more than she knows. Even in these rare instance, the crying/emotions were very controlled.

What is the thought process when someone cries or in heavy situations? Is it the "get me outta here - anywhere but here" type of feeling? Or is it more like, "look at this panzy - can't he control himself?" Or something entirely different?

Are there any guy STJs out there who are willing to explain their side of the story?

Yes. INTPness, if I were in that situation, I would have done exactly what your grandfather did. I'm pretty uncomfortable if it's a really emotional environment. I would not want to be there.
 

Amira

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I want to be sure that I am understanding this accurately. Would you mind giving an example of crying for attention and a situation worthy of compassion? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I would like to know what your perception is of both.

Well, above I gave an example of crying simply for getting their way. Most of the time when someone is crying it means they need compassion, even if it's not something that would make me even close to crying. I might not be able to be as obvious and outspoken about it as some people but I do try to "hear" their feelings and wait before trying to fix it. I honestly don't run into many of these situations so it's hard for me to say.
 

Cimarron

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If I don't really care about the person, I just want to get out of there.

If I do care about the person, it's a mix of that, and the desire to help but feeling useless because I don't know how to help.

So the more I care about the person, the more conflicted I am, and determined to do something...
 

d@v3

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If I don't really care about the person, I just want to get out of there.

If I do care about the person, it's a mix of that, and the desire to help but feeling useless because I don't know how to help.

So the more I care about the person, the more conflicted I am, and determined to do something...

EXACTLY! :yes:
 
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