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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
If you lived in Central Florida, (or if I lived where you do) I'd definitely be your buddy! :hug:
Ah, too bad. I live way west of you... Can we be long distance buddies? :cheese:

Random factoid #2 (and I've kind of said this already, but this is a long thread, so it bears repeating):




A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
TO ALL WHO DISLIKE ESTJS BECAUSE THEY "FORCE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS"


We don't think of them as our "opinions". We think of them as "the way things are supposed to be". Black and white, you know?

THEREFORE...

We are NOT as arrogant as you think!

IN ADDITION...

If your way is more efficient, and you PROVE it to us (thereby introducing a gray into our black/white color scheme), WE CAN BE CONVINCED. It is WAY easier to convince us of things than you might think. Just because we SEEM immovable in our positions, doesn't mean an article from the New York Times, or a study done at the National Institute of Health, won't change our minds.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME




.... are there any more questions for this ESTJ? :)
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
MBTI Type
ISTJ
How do we know if we have successfully convinced you though? It's not like you actually ADMIT that you were wrong! :rofl1:

For instance, if you are trying to figure out how to fix something, and the idea that has worked for you before isn't working, and someone comes along and fixes it using his or her own idea. Then what? From my experience the ESTJ sheepishly says "thanks". IF that even. Otherwise they skip the "thanks" and go straight to the "Wow do you know how long I've been trying to fix this?" etc.. :laugh:
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
^^ Well, it sounds like you've got it down. You know the phrases :) Some other ones are:
"All right." (begins fixing it like you said to do)
"...Okay, we'll do that, then." (if it's a work situation)
etc. etc. etc.

You really know that they've been convinced when they actually DO what you suggested to do. After that, it doesn't matter - you can sit in satisfaction knowing that you beat them. :)

One (potentially) good way to know that you've convinced them is when they start to look embarrassed... 'cause that's why we don't (generally) admit when we're wrong. We feel like we look stupid ('cause we hold ourselves to high standards, often), and we're humiliated. So if, by any chance, you see physical signs of those emotions (e.g. blushing...), that could work, too.
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
TO ALL WHO DISLIKE ESTJS BECAUSE THEY "FORCE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS"


We don't think of them as our "opinions". We think of them as "the way things are supposed to be". Black and white, you know?

THEREFORE...

We are NOT as arrogant as you think!

IN ADDITION...

If your way is more efficient, and you PROVE it to us (thereby introducing a gray into our black/white color scheme), WE CAN BE CONVINCED. It is WAY easier to convince us of things than you might think. Just because we SEEM immovable in our positions, doesn't mean an article from the New York Times, or a study done at the National Institute of Health, won't change our minds.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME




.... are there any more questions for this ESTJ? :)

Firstly, love the above. :D

I have a question for you. How different are ESTJ and ESFJ? Its only 1 letter off.
Would you obsess over Bejeweled (in the arcade) for over an hour to try and get in the top 3?
Can you stop thinking? I think from the moment i wake until the moment i sleep. Even playing that game i was thinking all the way through. Mostly its crappy stuff, occasionally i am getting deep with myself.

What are your thoughts?
 

NewEra

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
3,104
MBTI Type
I
Ah, too bad. I live way west of you... Can we be long distance buddies? :cheese:

Random factoid #2 (and I've kind of said this already, but this is a long thread, so it bears repeating):




A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
TO ALL WHO DISLIKE ESTJS BECAUSE THEY "FORCE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS"


We don't think of them as our "opinions". We think of them as "the way things are supposed to be". Black and white, you know?

THEREFORE...

We are NOT as arrogant as you think!

IN ADDITION...

If your way is more efficient, and you PROVE it to us (thereby introducing a gray into our black/white color scheme), WE CAN BE CONVINCED. It is WAY easier to convince us of things than you might think. Just because we SEEM immovable in our positions, doesn't mean an article from the New York Times, or a study done at the National Institute of Health, won't change our minds.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME

Haha this reminds me of a public sign or flyer or something with important announcements.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Haha this reminds me of a public sign or flyer or something with important announcements.
Firstly, love the above. :D
Thanks! I was feeling random :) Also, it needed to be said! :soapbox:

I have a question for you. How different are ESTJ and ESFJ? Its only 1 letter off.
Well, there's the dominant function difference (me=Te, you=Fe), which is one of the biggest things, technically speaking. But speaking anecdotally, based on my experience with my two ESFJ friends... if you guys are the stereotypical "mom" (I'm sure you've heard that one once or twice... I don't need to elaborate), ESTJs are the stereotypical "dad". We're almost never afraid of conflict, we're bossy in an impersonal way (managers even outside of work), and instead of wanting to be the maternal figure in our group of friends/family, we want to be the strong, unwavering guardian, protecting them from all harm - like a father figure. (Of course, this is NOT gender-specific, and I know that it isn't politically correct, but I'm talkin' about 1950's-esque stereotypes here.)

Would you obsess over Bejeweled (in the arcade) for over an hour to try and get in the top 3?
Oh, totally, if I thought I had a chance. If I was just a beginner at it, then no way. (I'd do that with Dance Dance Revolution, though :cheese:)

Can you stop thinking? I think from the moment i wake until the moment i sleep. Even playing that game i was thinking all the way through. Mostly its crappy stuff, occasionally i am getting deep with myself.
Yeah, I can stop thinking. Or, at least, I can get myself to think incredibly single-mindedly, which can be very zen and relaxing, especially if I have a lot of things that I could be worrying about at any given time. Some of my favorite activities for that are knitting, working out, and cleaning. However, with pretty much any task that I'm given (that I'm serious about), I can shove all else out of my mind and throw all my energy into that particular task. Sometimes when I'm in passionate conversation, I have no idea if I'm thinking. Occasionally I've succeeded in meditating (it helps me fall asleep sometimes). When I'm tired, I space out, which, I suppose, means that I'm not thinking.

What are your thoughts?
It varies. "I need to call that one guy..." "What was I about to do, again?", "Five times two, carry the one...", "OMG I'M WORRIED ABOUT THIS DEADLINE", etc. etc. etc.
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Well, there's the dominant function difference (me=Te, you=Fe), which is one of the biggest things, technically speaking. But speaking anecdotally, based on my experience with my two ESFJ friends... if you guys are the stereotypical "mom" (I'm sure you've heard that one once or twice... I don't need to elaborate), ESTJs are the stereotypical "dad". We're almost never afraid of conflict, we're bossy in an impersonal way (managers even outside of work), and instead of wanting to be the maternal figure in our group of friends/family, we want to be the strong, unwavering guardian, protecting them from all harm - like a father figure. (Of course, this is NOT gender-specific, and I know that it isn't politically correct, but I'm talkin' about 1950's-esque stereotypes here.)

OK, granted people have told me i am a great mom. I won't lie, it is true. However, when you use this analogy of mom and dad. It doesn't quite fit with me. I don't like conflict unless i am fighting someone's cause then i am in knee deep. Bossy, yes. If people just listen to my way of doing things, then you'll see its a win win situation (although i am open to other suggestions). I do in the workplace find people who won't stick up for themselves and i'll jump in and protect them. You say this is down to Te and Fe. I have looked into it but i need to find a test or something that tells me i am this percentage of this and that percentage of that. Does a test of these sorts actually exist?

I don't feel like i fit the box so i must find more information to make it concrete. Do you think like that at all?


Yeah, I can stop thinking. Or, at least, I can get myself to think incredibly single-mindedly, which can be very zen and relaxing, especially if I have a lot of things that I could be worrying about at any given time. Some of my favorite activities for that are knitting, working out, and cleaning. However, with pretty much any task that I'm given (that I'm serious about), I can shove all else out of my mind and throw all my energy into that particular task. Sometimes when I'm in passionate conversation, I have no idea if I'm thinking. Occasionally I've succeeded in meditating (it helps me fall asleep sometimes). When I'm tired, I space out, which, I suppose, means that I'm not thinking.

I do the same with tasks, 100% dedication and done to the best of my abilities. I just zone in and forget everything else.
When i am having a passionate conversation, i find i just reel stuff off and sound bloody intelligent sometimes. Its later when i am thinking of what was said that i start thinking about it and how i came to that conclusion. I have to put the pieces together after but never during or i lose my concentration.
When i space out in bed, i find my thinking process becomes more intense even though i am not thinking of anyway. Think clouds just drifting across the sky, thats my brain all the time.

Thank you for this.
Much appreciated.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
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Instinctual Variant
sp/so
OK, granted people have told me i am a great mom. I won't lie, it is true. However, when you use this analogy of mom and dad. It doesn't quite fit with me. I don't like conflict unless i am fighting someone's cause then i am in knee deep. Bossy, yes. If people just listen to my way of doing things, then you'll see its a win win situation (although i am open to other suggestions). I do in the workplace find people who won't stick up for themselves and i'll jump in and protect them. You say this is down to Te and Fe. I have looked into it but i need to find a test or something that tells me i am this percentage of this and that percentage of that. Does a test of these sorts actually exist?
I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't as clear as I wanted. When I said "we", I meant "ESTJs", so no, of course you don't like conflict - ESTJs are fine with it, and ESFJs aren't. And when I was talking about wanting to protect your friends... well, what you described - sort of a freeing-the-oppressed INFJ-stereotype-esque thing - is very different from what I was talking about. Although ESTJs will do exactly what you described (often, if they can, and if they're nice), the motivation behind it is different. Even though a stereotypical mom and a stereotypical dad are equally protective, it's a different sort of protectiveness. Do you know what I mean?

Based on what you just said in this paragraph, you sound like you fit with your type description. To clarify about the function thing, since I'm not sure if I understand it well enough to explain it, I'll direct you to the pages I was looking at. (I believe there's a test as to which functions you use most? or something like that? but each type has a definite function order, too. When I took the test, my result was not even close to my function order, but that's perfectly normal.)
ESTJ Profile
ESFJ Profile

I don't feel like i fit the box so i must find more information to make it concrete. Do you think like that at all?
Of course. No one is exactly like their Myers-Briggs profile. For instance, I'm not a natural leader (in many ways), I'm liberal politically, and I would NEVER join the military... contrary to what some websites may say. But it's nothing to worry about. :hug:
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
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ESFJ
Thank you for that. ;)

When i saw the profiles, i just thought 'Oh no'. There isn't much difference between us after reading them, i am surprised, well thats what i got from it anyway.

I just have to admit i will never get the concrete facts. Never mind.
I refuse to buy more books on the subject.
 

T-Guy

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
43
MBTI Type
ESTJ
First of all, good work on making this interesting thread EJCC. One thing that I don't quite approve is the fact that you seem like you're speaking for all ESTJs when you probably don't know every single one.

Anyways, since I'm on this topic I want to ask the following:
1. How do you spend your free time
2. How well do you deal with new people or strangers
3. How organized are you (Home, workspace, life)
4. How do you spend money and is money important
5. Is anger the only emotion that you show (and no I do not have an anger management problem, haha)
6. How laid back are you at home, at work, and with friends
7. How much pressure or workload can or did you handle at work

Geez...Do I ever love making lists...Well, that's all for now.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Ah, too bad. I live way west of you... Can we be long distance buddies? :cheese:

Random factoid #2 (and I've kind of said this already, but this is a long thread, so it bears repeating):




A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
TO ALL WHO DISLIKE ESTJS BECAUSE THEY "FORCE THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS"


We don't think of them as our "opinions". We think of them as "the way things are supposed to be". Black and white, you know?

THEREFORE...

We are NOT as arrogant as you think!

IN ADDITION...

If your way is more efficient, and you PROVE it to us (thereby introducing a gray into our black/white color scheme), WE CAN BE CONVINCED. It is WAY easier to convince us of things than you might think. Just because we SEEM immovable in our positions, doesn't mean an article from the New York Times, or a study done at the National Institute of Health, won't change our minds.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME




.... are there any more questions for this ESTJ? :)

Yea, regarding the arrogant part: I always knew you are pussies :)
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
First of all, good work on making this interesting thread EJCC. One thing that I don't quite approve is the fact that you seem like you're speaking for all ESTJs when you probably don't know every single one.
Firstly, good to see another ESTJ! There need to be more of us here. After all, there are only two of us that are really well known around here.

Secondly, in the first post of this thread I asked all other ESTJs on the forum to answer questions with me if they so chose. I've just taken charge because only one other ESTJ (WickedQueen) has helped me out on the thread, and she's not here very often. So, if it'll make you feel any better, join me! Good to have a comrade :cheers:

Thirdly, the way you phrased your objection wasn't exactly fair (no one can ever know ALL of one personality type), but I doubt you meant it like that. I realize that I'm mostly (though by NO means entirely*) speaking of myself. However, I've told people that, in many of my posts. You'll see some disclaimers in older posts such as "This may just be me, but..."

1. How do you spend your free time
On the computer, cleaning, reading, hanging out with friends, knitting, watching TV, doing craft projects, going to clubs, taking classes, etc.
2. How well do you deal with new people or strangers
I'm polite. New people like me, if/when they understand my sense of humor. I don't open up to them right away, but I think I deal with new people pretty well. When I'm in a big group of new people, and many of the new people know each other, I can be shy, but I'm not socially awkward in any stretch of the imagination.
3. How organized are you (Home, workspace, life)
My home and workspace vary from being reasonably clean to being an organized mess, but never get worse than that. In life, I do okay, but I'm still young, and that's something you (usually) get better at with age.
4. How do you spend money and is money important
Money is necessary for survival. Better to have more money to live more comfortably. I mostly use money for necessities, but I have some vices, including CDs, and sometimes I splurge in order to get the best possible quality product. (One example: I just bought a laptop, and chose to get a Macbook Pro, because, even though it was much more expensive, it was rated higher by Consumer Reports, and I tested it in a store and it worked much better than its less expensive PC counterparts.
5. Is anger the only emotion that you show (and no I do not have an anger management problem, haha)
Oh no. I'm incredibly expressive. I show pretty much every positive emotion I have, when I have it. I think that, in the past, I've hidden almost every negative emotion I can have EXCEPT for anger (for various reasons, including the need to not look weak). I'm guessing you're the same in this; when I get really angry, it just bursts out, and I feel like there's nothing I can do to stop it.

6. How laid back are you at home, at work, and with friends
I can be pretty laid back at home and with friends, but it really depends on who I'm with. If I'm with laid back people, I'm more obsessive, to counterbalance them, and vice versa. At work, though, I'm almost never laid back.
7. How much pressure or workload can or did you handle at work
I think I can handle a lot. There's always a stage, when I have a ton of work to do, in which I worry to death about my work quality, and/or whether I can get it all done on time, but once I get past that (and I always do), I handle it all just fine.

Geez...Do I ever love making lists...
:happy:



*I know ESTJs irl; I've read many, MANY ESTJ type descriptions online; I've done a lot of introspection about those type descriptions and realized that even if not all them fit me, I understand how they might have the potential of fitting considering how I think; and I have MANY anecdotes from fellow TypeC members at my disposal.
 

T-Guy

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
43
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Fair enough, I should say I have not read all your posts regarding ESTJ behaviours, etc...and you do seem pretty knowledgeable with the MBTI.

Well, it's interesting to see that we are very similar and I'd like to see WickedQueen's answers as well.

I'm not around too often, but I'll make some contributions when I am. That means ask away if you have any questions people, I won't be here too long tonight.
 

stellar renegade

PEST that STEPs on PETS
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
1,446
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ESTP
For awhile I thought my friend was an ESTP but I think he just acted that way because of a lack of discipline in his life possibly. I've been wondering about it lately, and I now think from reading this thread (and from thinking about the ESTJ type earlier tonight) that he's probably actually that type. That would explain the big differences between us. He's much more about commitment and keeping to your word than I am. I tend to think that my word is flexible because the future is unpredictable. He's all about organizing everything according to some rigid thought pattern. For some reason it didn't strike me before that this is probably his type.

It all seemed to change after he got into the military. And wonder of wonders, he's now dating a girl who seems to definitely be an INFP.

And, yeah, he never, ever admits that he's wrong and always thinks he's right about everything. It gets on my nerves so much.

Would you ESTJs attest that if you hadn't had a proper authority structure growing up (especially a dad) that you wouldn't have acted as disciplined as you do? Or maybe you didn't have that and you didn't act that way before? It could just be his particular case, but I'm just searching for some validation on this idea.

Also, he had an abusive dad for awhile.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
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sp/so
I suppose it's possible. However, being an ESTJ with an INTP dad and an INFJ mom, I certainly wasn't raised in as structured an environment as some. I think I created the structure for myself. (For example, when I was a little kid, if I did something bad, my parents hardly had to discipline me at all (except to say "I'm disappointed in you") before I would feel terrible and apologize and not do it again.) But, of course, everything changes when you grow up in an effed-up household with an abusive parent.

I will say, though, based on what little I know about ESTPs, that I relate to what they do a WHOLE lot. If I didn't put so much emphasis on authority, and if I had the guts to stick it to the man whenever I felt so inclined, I might act like an ESTP. So, I suppose, hypothetically, if I were raised in an environment where everyone questioned authority, I would disrespect it too (and, in so doing, follow authority by questioning a different authority, if you understand what I mean), and if my peers/family weren't organized, I wouldn't be organized either. The behaviors of ESTJs are REALLY shaped by the people around them,* and that can't be emphasized enough.

That was a very interesting profile/question! Thank you for asking. I think that was the first question I've had from an ESTP. :)


*which is why, in my opinion, ESTJs are such an incredibly diverse group of people, compared with other types.
 

stellar renegade

PEST that STEPs on PETS
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
1,446
MBTI Type
ESTP
Wow, thanks for the insight! That makes perfect sense.

For a little more info, he was raised by his mom alone until probably first grade age. His mom's kind of a funny creature, I guess her personality's been shaped alot by her now-husband, and I never knew her before he came along. I heard she's alot stricter now than she was, though, and that she was more easygoing before. I'm not entirely sure if she's an ESTJ or ESFJ. (She does very well as a project manager for Chase Bank and is now a vice president, whereas she started from very humble roots.)

By the way, I've heard that the behavior of all Guardian types (SJs) are shaped by the people around them. That makes even more sense to me in regards to SFJs, actually, but I guess as a group that's true. That's from the mouth of Keirsey's son himself, btw.

Anyways, at about that early age is when he got an abusive stepdad. When he was about middle-school age is when I met him and his current stepdad started dating his mom. He's alot better person, though very strict.

My friend always hated the strictness, and he hated the military because of their BS, but strangely enough he wants to get back in it because of how well they take care of their people.

He definitely can tolerate it much better than I would ever be able to. I've always been extremely high on the P scale, I think testing 100% or close to before. He tried to encourage me to join, but pretty much always gets a big "NO". hahaha.

Of course, he did have a penchant for questioning authority whenever he could and calling them out on their violation of rules when he was in the Navy. He wasn't afraid of anybody or anything.
 
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