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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
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yupp
dear ESTJ
I need advice, if i don't like i will discard it, that is all
ok so what do you do if you have a room mate who has quit going to class, and you know you can get her kicked out for it, and that's fine whatever i don't give a shit about that. the issue is she's here all the time talking loudly on the phone, to the point that i can't really study or sleep. do you tell on her? or do you let it go?

I prefer not to tell because I'm a bit worried she's planted drugs in my room and I've searched but they could be really hidden but i need away to deal
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Question for other ESTJs and for people who know ESTJs: Would you describe ESTJs as being moody and volatile?

We have a reputation as being very emotionally stable and reliable, but my image/impression of myself is that the opposite is frequently true. And because strong and negative emotions can seem so foreign to us, we react to them as if it's the end of the world, even when it really isn't. It feels dramatic, and probably looks dramatic, especially to Feelers, who are used to dealing with those sorts of emotions on a more regular basis.

Yes to both. Both are exacerbated by stress.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
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INFJ
I would agree as well. However, I would also agree with Hard that it doesn't come out in quite as recognizable a way as it does with some types, so it sometimes doesn't occur to the onlooker that it is stress induced. It's nice to have EJCC be able to express what that feels like from an insider's point of view. Any ideas for how to ease the stress part for them? I mean, usually talking about things helps, but for them, that seems to open up a whole other can of worms. They also can be kind of difficult to do something nice for under those circumstances, as the more upset they are, the more they tend to isolate themselves. Or do those around the ESTJ that are witnessing that side of them just need to become thicker skinned and not take it as being meant personally, but rather as a more generalized frustration and treat them like they will be fine (kind of a fake it till you make it thing?) and maybe make them something tasty etc? I can imagine that having to deal with the emotions of other people on top of whatever it is bothering them doesn't help. What happens when the person becomes stuck in that stress-induced state? Is there a way to help them out of that loop?
 

PeaceBaby

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This might sound a bit ... babyish, but I do what I call soothing. I basically mirror him - when he's grumpy, I make a grumpy face, he seems sad, everything about me is a mirror to that and I can then find out what's bothering him. I'll even say, "awww my poor baby, what's wrong, why are you sad?" What comes next is often, "I don't know" and then the investigation works out from there to track the emotional space and the things fueling the emotions. Doing this is something that comes pretty naturally to me and it seems to work well with Te dominants in my inner circle. I have a long and proven track record of being a safe person to open up to, so it happens often. Of course, my husband being the closest relationship, he is so open about how he feels it can be a bit overwhelming at times since he has no concept of the level of emotional absorption I experience. But ultimately, this is part of how I'm wired and I consider it a strength, so it makes no sense to withhold. I can process a lot for the both of us.

This mirroring is 100% genuine concern to help the emotional space seem "safe". Fe dominants need similar assistance, different purview.
 

kirkland

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
3
1. Is it a requirement that you communicate with your SO daily, in some way (phone, email, in person)?
2. How do you console a sad/stressed ESTJ?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Apologies in advance for this barrage of follow-up questions.

I would agree as well. However, I would also agree with Hard that it doesn't come out in quite as recognizable a way as it does with some types, so it sometimes doesn't occur to the onlooker that it is stress induced.
What's a more recognizable way? How does it register to people, if not as stress-related?

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] ?

It's nice to have EJCC be able to express what that feels like from an insider's point of view. Any ideas for how to ease the stress part for them?
I agree with [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] for the most part, though her method may be too spouse-specific. It'd take a LOT of trust for me to go through my Fi brainstorming process with someone like that, in the open. (It's different on the forum, because I can take time to collect myself between posts.) But yes, what works well for me is that same style of interaction: expressing empathy, but with a goal in mind -- giving me suggestions for what I can do now (not next time), helping me reframe my perspective so I can have a better attitude, or if things are really shitty and nothing can be fixed, then just being there. Like PB said, the important thing is to create a safe space. Even if the ESTJ can't express themselves in that space right away, they'll be grateful that the space was established, and will most likely take advantage of that space later.

I mean, usually talking about things helps, but for them, that seems to open up a whole other can of worms.
What do you mean? That it's so hard for them to talk it out?

They also can be kind of difficult to do something nice for under those circumstances, as the more upset they are, the more they tend to isolate themselves.
This is actually something I've wondered for a while. If ESTJs are easy to read, and everyone can tell that they're self-isolating due to stress, then why not try to end the isolation and confront us directly about it? Asking us if we're okay?

It's validating that you bring it up, because that means it's not just me. I love it when friends surprise each other with fun things when they're down -- but besides my parents, no one's ever done that for me.

Or do those around the ESTJ that are witnessing that side of them just need to become thicker skinned and not take it as being meant personally, but rather as a more generalized frustration and treat them like they will be fine (kind of a fake it till you make it thing?) and maybe make them something tasty etc?
"Become thicker skinned" -- does that mean we scare people when we're stressed, by exuding so many directionless feelings? Either way, when we're stressed, it's definitely not personal, but I don't know if I'd recommend treating it as if nothing is going on. Some little gesture of recognition is always nice. Cooking them something would be one example, yes, as would doing the dishes for them, or something like that.

I can imagine that having to deal with the emotions of other people on top of whatever it is bothering them doesn't help. What happens when the person becomes stuck in that stress-induced state? Is there a way to help them out of that loop?
if we're stressed about people's feelings, most likely it's because we don't understand them or know how to deal with them. So the best way to help would probably be to help us understand the situation in more ESTJ-friendly terms -- helping us see it as less overwhelming and easier to deal with. If we're just in a mess of emotions and are not sure what's what, then the best thing would probably be to either do what PB suggested, or just be receptive and helpful however you can, while we try to work it out internally.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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1. Is it a requirement that you communicate with your SO daily, in some way (phone, email, in person)?
2. How do you console a sad/stressed ESTJ?
1) Not really.
2) See my previous post, and PeaceBaby's. :)
 
Joined
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How do you tell an ESTJ to pull themselves together, and to stop stressing using their Ne?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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How do you tell an ESTJ to pull themselves together, and to stop stressing using their Ne?
Appealing to their Si is probably the best bet, as ESTJs only fall into the NeFi trap when they cease to be "grounded" by TeSi as per usual. For example: "You ALWAYS do well at this, so this time shouldn't be any different." And if the worst case scenario isn't even that bad, maybe follow up the Si appeal with "Even if the worst thing happens, you could still do ___ which would be relatively painless and everything would turn out fine."
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Question for anyone who knows an ESTJ who is either a 7 or has a 7 fix ( [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] come to mind right away for obvious reasons): Do those ESTJs have even more of a tendency to fall into their dom-tert loop than other ESTJs would? ESTJs already have a tendency to become unproductive -- or, more accurately, very productive about very unimportant things -- but it seems like that tendency would be magnified in an ESTJ who has a strong need to seek out distractions.

In my case, I tend to get VERY into side projects, when I have at least a day or two in a row that are very stressful or would create some other kind of painful emotion. On weekend days when I have nothing planned with friends, I can be almost manic in my need to get things done. When my ISTJ roommate would come home and see that the house was especially clean, he used to joke to me: "You must have been bored today." :laugh:
 

Olm the Water King

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The other day, I saw a chart showing how common certain MBTI/Enneagram combinations are. Apparently the least common are ESFP 5 and ESTJ 4. hehe
 

EJCC

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The other day, I saw a chart showing how common certain MBTI/Enneagram combinations are. Apparently the least common are ESFP 5 and ESTJ 4. hehe
Makes sense to me -- those combinations would make absolutely no intuitive sense (and they're associated with the inferior function of each type, i.e. Ni and Fi).

Actually, I think I know an ESFP 4 and an ENTJ 5. But I think there are actually a lot of ENTJ 5s in the world.
 

Olm the Water King

across the universe
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Makes sense to me -- those combinations would make absolutely no intuitive sense (and they're associated with the inferior function of each type, i.e. Ni and Fi).

Actually, I think I know an ESFP 4 and an ENTJ 5. But I think there are actually a lot of ENTJ 5s in the world.

Well, here's the chart in case you're interested:

percentagenounknown-2.png


I think it's taken from an internet survey of some sort so the general shares of the various Enneagram types (the % at the bottom) are probably not a good indicator of how it is in the general population (I highly doubt type 5 is the most common, and type 4 the second most common). But
the divisions of the MBTI types into Enneagram shares is probably quite accurate.

Either way, very strong correlations seem to be INTP 5 (by far the strongest), INTJ 5 (second strongest), ESTP 7, ENTP 7, ISTP 5, INFP 4, ENFJ 2, ENTJ 8, ESFJ 2, ENFP 7, ISTJ 6, ...

And the weakest correlations, as I said ESTJ 4 and ESFP 5 (zero matches in the survey), INFP 8, ENFP 1, ISFJ 7, ISFJ 8, ISFP 8, ISTJ 7, INTJ 7, ...
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
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Makes sense to me -- those combinations would make absolutely no intuitive sense (and they're associated with the inferior function of each type, i.e. Ni and Fi).

Actually, I think I know an ESFP 4 and an ENTJ 5. But I think there are actually a lot of ENTJ 5s in the world.


What makes you think this is the case ?
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
Question for anyone who knows an ESTJ who is either a 7 or has a 7 fix ( [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] come to mind right away for obvious reasons): Do those ESTJs have even more of a tendency to fall into their dom-tert loop than other ESTJs would? ESTJs already have a tendency to become unproductive -- or, more accurately, very productive about very unimportant things -- but it seems like that tendency would be magnified in an ESTJ who has a strong need to seek out distractions.

In my case, I tend to get VERY into side projects, when I have at least a day or two in a row that are very stressful or would create some other kind of painful emotion. On weekend days when I have nothing planned with friends, I can be almost manic in my need to get things done. When my ISTJ roommate would come home and see that the house was especially clean, he used to joke to me: "You must have been bored today." :laugh:

Hmm. I've never thought of this in the context of my father before (173).

There's been periods of his life where he's put himself into really crappy situations. They've been born more of stubbornness and a sort of rose colored glasses "I AM GONNA MAKE THIS WORK DAMNIT" kind of thing. The biggest is when he married, then divorced, then remarried 8 months later, then divorced again a woman with 7 children. It was a dark period of his, and by extension my life.

My dad has done an excellent job (much to my frustration) at hiding his failures and shortcomings from me. I have never actually seen him get hyper focused on projects that don't have much impact. It could be that he's ALWAYS got a project going on. He doesn't function without them. He's super focused on work though and always does a "good job" no matter what. If he falls into Dom-Tert loops (which I honestly don't subscribe to all that much) his aggression goes up and he seems like he's being hyper productive and moving forward with things, but takes such a bulldozer approach that things are done really poorly. Though this occurs more in social arenas.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Makes sense to me -- those combinations would make absolutely no intuitive sense (and they're associated with the inferior function of each type, i.e. Ni and Fi).

Actually, I think I know an ESFP 4 and an ENTJ 5. But I think there are actually a lot of ENTJ 5s in the world.




What makes you think this is the case ?



I am sorry if I am annoying but I would really like to have this answered if that is still possible !?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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I didn't answer because I wanted to avoid having to take it back. I really only know one ENTJ 5. It makes intuitive sense to me because of how 8 integrates to 5 (IIRC). But I have nothing else to back it up.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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I didn't answer because I wanted to avoid having to take it back. I really only know one ENTJ 5. It makes intuitive sense to me because of how 8 integrates to 5 (IIRC). But I have nothing else to back it up.


Ok.
I am a person that could in theory fit in the profile of a ENTJ 5 and therefore I was just curious since ENTJ 5 is unlikely combination in my opinion.
 

andresimon

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Apr 11, 2015
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Hey all! I made this thread in response to a few things:

1. My experience with the rampant misconceptions about ESTJs that so many members have here (based on very limited personal experience, if any),
2. Loads of random people on TypoC asking me questions about the ESTJs in their lives, because I'm one of the only semi-actively-posting ESTJs here, and
3. All the people who want me (and the other ESTJs here) to try to make a difference on this site.

Here's the idea: if anybody has any questions that only an ESTJ can answer (and please, no spamming!), do so here. I'll do my best to help you out. Also, I reqest that other ESTJs help out on this thread here too. This doesn't have to be a one-woman battle! But you obviously shouldn't feel obligated to help out if you don't want to. I can do this on my own if necessary.

EDIT: Don't be afraid to post here! I won't bite. :)

So here I am. Questions, anyone?

Do you get pleasure at times when you see others in pain or when you cause others pain?
How do you view emotional people?
Do you see yourself as emotional?
Do you ever fake positive emotions, because you have noticed it gets better results?
Do you resent that fact?
Are you very neat and organized?
 
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