[MBTI General] SJs with NT parents

[CJ99]

Hello!
I have a question for you SJs. Did any of you have NT parents? and if so what sort of relationship did you have with them?

 

[Amira]

My mom is an INTJ. She is one of my best friends, and I hers. Why?

 

[CJ99]

Because a lot of NTs here, including myself, seem to have SJ parents with whom they have had a lot of conflict and problems so i was interested to see if SJs had problems with NTs as parents.
I'm intrested in the difference as often the difficulties between NT kids and SJ parents come from the SJs reliance and NTs distrust of authority. So NTs rebel causing their SJ parents grief.
I figured in reversed positions their may be a problem a lack of authority or tradition annoying the SJ. Then again it could make the SJ more open to new things and new ideas making them healthier.

 

[Amira]

Well, I do credit both my parents, but especially my mom, with cultivating a strong love of books and learning in me. I am very grateful for that. Sometimes I do wish she had been more focused on steering us like other moms do, specifically in the romantic area. She doesn't care much about girly type things and I need all the help I can get in that area, being an ISTJ. I already look, think, and talk a bit too much like a guy and it would have been nice if she had done more along those lines when I was young.

Probably clear as mud, I know! Anyway, I admit to being a nerd in my personality and having a nerd for a mom doesn't help... other than that she's really cool, though.

 

[raz]

My father is INTJ. We're both computer geeks, so we connect on that easily. He's always telling me ways I can do something better, so it makes me feel like the things I do aren't ever good enough. Having him growing up helped me a lot to not be closed minded toward N type things because his level of abstraction kind of became my norm, and then as I got further into computer geekdom, I just got used to dealing with NTs.

Like for instance, he was helping me make a spreadsheet once, and we got most of it done, but then he started going on about how to visually modify it so that it was aesthetically pleasing. I asked him why, and he said I could at least get into the habit of doing it now so that in the future if I make a spreadsheet for someone else, it's versatile and not only understandable by me. I tried asking him, "But, if I just need it to do certain things, why do I need to worry if it looks pretty?"

He was telling me about some redundancy mistakes people made in a news article last night. I told him, "Ok, that's such a stupid thing to comment out loud about, can't you keep it to yourself? It's so stupid to even warrant spending your time thinking that much about." Apparently I got to him, because then a few minutes later, he asked me if someone else was worth commenting about.

 

[NewEra]

My dad is ENTJ, and we constantly get into fights (arguments). He loves to tell me what to do and he thinks he can do it, but I'm not having it, I usually do what I want to do, so I argue back. Also, he loves to lecture me, and argue with me, but I'm always trying to have the last word haha, and so we're both trying to speak over each other, and it ends up as constant yelling. My INFJ mom gets frustrated by this, but I tell her to not take it so seriously. Because my dad takes EVERYTHING seriously. He can't take a joke, and if he sees I'm having fun or something, he'll ask me what the hell I'm doing.

Also, what I don't like is that my parents, mainly my dad, have super high expectations for me. I do better when my expectations are lower. If I do something well, I like to be appreciated for it yet I don't get any recognition from my dad. My mom gets in arguments with my dad too, we're a dysfunctional family altogether although I will say I get along a lot better with my mom. I think this is because she's not as demanding, and she just encourages me in a nice way to do things, which I prefer.

And on top of all that, my dad complains about me to my mom because of who knows why, and my mom then gets angry at me, telling me I should do what my dad wants, but I don't want to do that because he works me too hard.

 

[Saslou]

In the 7 years i was with my husband, INTJ, my son ISTJ never once got into an arguement with him. There seemed to be a mutual respect between them. Cool.

I think my father is an INTx (possibly P) .. Pfft. Apparantly i was daddy's little girl. When my parenst divorced, i was the one to take it bad and rebelled big time during my teenage years. We only saw my father at the weekend and that was spent in front of the TV whilst he did improvements to the house. We did occasionally go on holidays with him which was cool. He lacked emotion which i couldn't understand.

On one occasion he came to my mums house and i told him straight out "you don't love us". He cried and so did me and my brother. I must of been around 10 or 11 yrs old and that was the first time i had seen him emotional.

My father only used to see me 4 times a year to drop off birthday or xmas cards. It wasn't until i returned from Canada that he got intouch and we went for a drive and a chat. I respect his honesty but he thought i might try to commit suicide as my marriage had just ended along with my new life in Canada. We sat and talked for about 2 hours. For the first time ever, he opened up and let me into his world. He cried and told me he never told his parents (his father recently passed away) about me having children at 16 and 18 as he was ashamed of me. *sigh*. He told me so such personal stuff and to be honest although we went out a week later for a drink and he brought pictures of me as a little girl. I was kind of disappointed, turns out he is just a human being afterall. Who had very high expectations for me.

Since i moved into my new place 3 weeks ago i have seen him 3 times. I actually saw him laughing (scared the shite out of me seriously, i was amazed) last time he was here. I now know not to do emotional stuff with him. So he has helped me by taking Canadian DVD's and converting them for UK DVD players. I am taking my driving test next month and he has offered (more insisted) that he comes and helps me pick a car and he has also been looking at my son's Xbox 360 as the kid wants to do the internet thing on it. My father now emails me all these technological stuff that i may or may not need. *again sigh*. I am just grateful and say thanks.

It is not the relationship i had wanted but we don't get perfection in life so i am grateful for what i do have with him.

Lmao .. i saw him a few days ago, he thinks i should work for his company 'severn trent water', but they are only offering jobs in Coventry. I told him i was looking at going into a caring role. He said 'you have to have patience for that', very monotone. Said just like a statement. I just laughed in my head.

 

[Eiddy]

Wow Saslou, my father my whole life was very detached and unemotional unless he was angry. I was really surprised about the feeling of disappointed when you started to see his human side. I guess that would be a big shock for me too.

Now I have to wonder if my dad was S or N. He was very extroverted around people, but I believe he was really introverted. He just had a good way of hiding it. Actually I don't even know my dad well enough to say who he is.

My mom is Infj, I know the thread is about NT so I didn't reply when I first read it. Since there could be a big difference between the two.??

 

[Saslou]

I don't ever remember my dad being angry.


It is funny as i mentioned in another thread that unless you are able to see and put into perspective your parents actions/personality types etc i find you tend to carry them forward in your life in a negative light. So i am/was very observant of my parents behaviour as i don't want to continue a bad cycle thats benefits noone.

I have just had a shit few hours and mentioned in another thread but my head space (dreams) and i think because i am being reflective at the moment, maybe i am trying to be in some ways just like my father. I don't know.

Like he told me in February, he has feelings, but he will not show them, feelings cause pain to him so he doesn't go there in the first place. I now realise thats what i do.

 

[simulatedworld]

I would think this would depend heavily on whether the parent is NTP or NTJ.

NTP parents may not consistently provide the structured, disciplined environment that SJ children tend to prefer. NTJ parents seem much more likely to get along well with SJ children, so much more so that I don't think it's accurate to categorize them with NTP parents in this particular comparison.

Come to think of it, my father's (INTJ) relationship with my sister (ESTJ) is relevant here.

They agree on many things involving principles of process. (I assume Jungian functions would explain this similarity as Te.) Their fundamental beliefs about personal responsibility and respect for planning for the future give them many things in common; the only disagreements they seem to get in are rooted in perceptual N vs. S conceptualization differences. My father is experienced enough with her at this point to recognize places where he cannot overcome this perceptual difference and thus he avoids these situations/allows her dominance if they come up. She, however, has tremendous respect for his impeccable moral consistency and so when he really stands up for himself on a particular moral opinion, she tends to yield. INTJ's ability to articulate longer-term implications of plans seems to grant him credibility in the ESTJ's eyes.

She's had trouble with him being late to things now and again--I suppose NJs, while not nearly as bad as NPs, are a little more susceptible to this than SJs. (My ESFJ mother thinks he uses this as a way of asserting control, which is not necessarily a bad theory...)

Anyway, their fundamental life direction attitudes fit each other pretty well--she's an academic overachiever and my dad loves that. I get along well with my dad for entirely different reasons (NT thing), but NP vs. SJ becomes a serious issue when it comes to me and my sister...so I'd expect that to have all sorts of implications in a parent-child relationship that just wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue for NTJ-SJ. Nah mean?

 

[pure_mercury]

I did not really want a super-structured environment as a child.

 

[FDG]

I have two SJ parents. I'm totally cool with both of them, I very rarely get into argument with (they're ISFJ mom and ISTJ dad). Sometimes - maybe twice a year - I will argue with my dad because we will be both very convinced about being right about something and unwilling to back off.

 

[ehastin1]

my dads an entp...my opposite. he is a great guy and extremely witty and funny. him and i are just completely different people though. we both love each other very much but i find our relationship to be more of a "respectful of our differences" kinda thing.

 

[EJCC]

Because a lot of NTs here, including myself, seem to have SJ parents with whom they have had a lot of conflict and problems so i was interested to see if SJs had problems with NTs as parents.

I have/had no real issues with my INTP dad. His sense of humor was embarrassing sometimes (LOADS of bad puns), and even though he's easygoing and friendly 90% of the time, when he gets angry, he's terrifying. That was an issue as a kid - I became the deer in the headlights whenever he was mad. And whenever we'd confront him about it, he'd say things like "All I wanted was an answer to my question! I have a RIGHT to be angry!" (which, I guess, is typical of both our types - you let go of the emotion barrier only to be slammed down, and you feel hurt by that).

I'm intrested in the difference as often the difficulties between NT kids and SJ parents come from the SJs reliance and NTs distrust of authority. So NTs rebel causing their SJ parents grief.
I figured in reversed positions their may be a problem a lack of authority or tradition annoying the SJ. Then again it could make the SJ more open to new things and new ideas making them healthier.

I was a very trustworthy and reliable kid. Often my parents would ENCOURAGE me to go out and have fun and stay up late (which is really funny when you think about it). I was never grounded. They never had to punish me, because for me, the guilt of doing something wrong was enough (the phrase "I'm disappointed in you" was one of the worst things they could say to me).

Many aspects of my relationship with my dad are typical of what you pointed out - almost a reversal. Instead of him making rules for me, I'll make rules for myself. Instead of forcing me to stay home, he'd want me to socialize. For example, here's one interchange we had when I was younger (that REALLY irritated me at the time):

Dad: Hey, do you want to go fishing?
Me: ...Not really. It's hot out, and I'd rather stay inside and read or something.
Dad: *gives me the look*
Me: *continuing to make excuses, without realizing that they're excuses* Nobody else in this house wants to go fishing! I don't even like fishing that much... Why wasn't this planned in advance???
Dad: Oh, c'mon. It'll be fun.
Me: Why do you REALLY want me to go?
Dad: It's out of your comfort zone. It'll be good for you.
Me: *not wanting to displease him; realizing that he's the boss* Oh, fine. Let's go.

Overall, though, we're good friends, and always have been. I remember talking to him about random facts about music and science and math even when I was a little kid. We have similar interests, we understand each other, etc, etc. The times that he annoys me are generally not related to type. And everybody can be annoying sometimes.

EDIT: Just found this quote:

NTP parents may not consistently provide the structured, disciplined environment that SJ children tend to prefer.

Yeah, when I think of my dad, "structured" isn't the first word that comes to mind. I didn't really have much of a need for it, like pure_mercury said. I pretty much made my structured environment myself. My parents had no say in it.

 

[CJ99]

hmm its interesting how SJs seem to be fine with NT parents but NTs seem to have a lot of problems with SJ parents.

Not sure if i'm suprised or not but its definatly interesting.

 

[NewEra]

hmm its interesting how SJs seem to be fine with NT parents but NTs seem to have a lot of problems with SJ parents.

Not all SJs are fine with NT parents.

 

[jenocyde]

He was telling me about some redundancy mistakes people made in a news article last night. I told him, "Ok, that's such a stupid thing to comment out loud about, can't you keep it to yourself? It's so stupid to even warrant spending your time thinking that much about." Apparently I got to him, because then a few minutes later, he asked me if someone else was worth commenting about.

Not many things strike a chord in me, but this comment would actually make me deeply sad if I heard it from a loved one. It would actually break me for some reason... I would probably dwell on it for weeks. hmmm...

 

[Qre:us]

Not many things strike a chord in me, but this comment would actually make me deeply sad if I heard it from a loved one. It would actually break me for some reason... I would probably dwell on it for weeks. hmmm...

YES! My thoughts are my most cherished, intimate 'things'. And, to have such a comment thrown at me, would be like someone telling me, "I'm stupid for thinking/my thoughts"....

If the response was poking holes in how/why they are stupid, I'd be okay, and actually appreciate the critical inquiry...but, to just have a statement that my thoughts are stupid and NOT to THINK about them, coming from a loved one.... It's like, telling me to give up oxygen...

************************************************

One common theme did appear from the responses: that SJ children feel the brunt of 'high expectations' from their NT parents and feeling the pressure to meet them.

Funnily enough, I (ENTP) felt the same from my ESTJ dad. Esp. with school, academia.

 

[jenocyde]

YES! My thoughts are my most cherished, intimate 'things'. And, to have such a comment thrown at me, would be like someone telling me, "I'm stupid for thinking/my thoughts"....

Yes!! And we take careful steps never to insult a person's character or intelligence - we merely debate the argument at hand. So to have someone so callously insult my intelligence because they don't like the conversation... I don't know. I never say things that I don't mean. So if someone I love calls me an idiot, I believe that they mean it. And I will believe that they always mean it deep down inside somewhere. The word 'stupid' is extremely hurtful coming from someone that I care about (but only someone I care about). I don't know why by I really got hurt reading that comment!! Funny, right??

I had SJ parents that were relentless that things were done the "right" way. Who the hell cares about the order in which I wash the fucking dishes, but it was always glasses first, then plates, etc...

 

[Amira]

Interesting, b/c I would hate to have somebody carelessly say something like that to me too. I might be able to brush it off easier, though, if I thought the person was just in a bad mood or something. I hope IRL I never accidentally say things like that to people, I try to be tactful but it's not natural for me...

I had SJ parents that were relentless that things were done the "right" way. Who the hell cares about the order in which I wash the dishes, but it was always glasses first, then plates, etc...

One of my parents was quite irritating that way. I could not understand why the method matters as much as the final results and we had a lot of arguments about that. (And yes, I am definitely an SJ despite that. Partly I hated doing other people's methods because I thought mine were better.)