[ISTJ] Unhealthy ISTJ (question)

[esfpmary]

I have a good friend who is an ISTJ. Last month he was very stressed and in chaos mode and acted very irrational towards me. He had stress at work and it seemed I really saw his raw shadow side coming out after work. He even told me a few nasty lies and basically told me off. He clearly was not himself. I somehow understand him and forgive him. We haven't spoken for a long time. I just let him be so he can put his life back in order. I have asked him in an email if he wishes our friendship to stop or if he likes to go on as I do not know if he appreciates my input. I never received a reply. Lately he is trying to contact me as I missed a few calls but he seems elusive when I call him since he does not pick up the phone and it goes to voicemail. I do not want to communicate through voicemail. After a few days this happens again and when I pick up the phone he hangs up. Is it that hard for an ISTJ to say sorry? Has anybody got a clue what is going on? I believe he is not a player and he is a gentle person except when stressed. I am a bit lost on this one.
Mary
isfp

 

[Take Five]

tell him it's his duty to talk.

 

[Eagle]

I have a good friend who is an ISTJ. Last month he was very stressed and in chaos mode and acted very irrational towards me. He had stress at work and it seemed I really saw his raw shadow side coming out after work. He even told me a few nasty lies and basically told me off. He clearly was not himself. I somehow understand him and forgive him. We haven't spoken for a long time. I just let him be so he can put his life back in order. I have asked him in an email if he wishes our friendship to stop or if he likes to go on as I do not know if he appreciates my input. I never received a reply. Lately he is trying to contact me as I missed a few calls but he seems elusive when I call him since he does not pick up the phone and it goes to voicemail. I do not want to communicate through voicemail. After a few days this happens again and when I pick up the phone he hangs up. Is it that hard for an ISTJ to say sorry? Has anybody got a clue what is going on? I believe he is not a player and he is a gentle person except when stressed. I am a bit lost on this one.
Mary
isfp

I personally don't have a trouble apologizing when I care. Hmmm, I would have to give this some thought.. Do you have any more facts of the situation?

 

[esfpmary]

Thanks. One of the facts is that the lies were pretty severe. They were even slightly threatening to me when he was out of control. I let him know that I found his approach to me very difficult to deal with at the same time reassuring him. He had some job changes going on and didn't want to share with me about it which was was okay for me. He has a need to deal with such things on his own and recreate structure and order. He is a person with high morals and is often preoccupied with what is right and wrong. Therfore it surprises me why he cannot come forward with some kind of apology. Maybe he does not need my friendship anymore and is afraid to tell? On the other hand I know he likes me.

 

[BlackCat]

He was probably just very stressed out and didn't want to deal with anything when he said all of that to you. You were just the easiest target for his frustrations at that very moment. He is probably very sorry.

I HIGHLY doubt an ISTJ would end a friendship because they "didn't need" it. They seem too loyal to their friends to be that way.

He will probably tell you the details of this later on while apologizing. Don't jump to conclusions and suspect that he doesn't like you anymore, that's a big no no. Just wait it out, he will come out when he's ready to talk to you again.

 

[NewEra]

I have a good friend who is an ISTJ. Last month he was very stressed and in chaos mode and acted very irrational towards me. He had stress at work and it seemed I really saw his raw shadow side coming out after work. He even told me a few nasty lies and basically told me off. He clearly was not himself. I somehow understand him and forgive him. We haven't spoken for a long time. I just let him be so he can put his life back in order. I have asked him in an email if he wishes our friendship to stop or if he likes to go on as I do not know if he appreciates my input. I never received a reply. Lately he is trying to contact me as I missed a few calls but he seems elusive when I call him since he does not pick up the phone and it goes to voicemail. I do not want to communicate through voicemail. After a few days this happens again and when I pick up the phone he hangs up. Is it that hard for an ISTJ to say sorry? Has anybody got a clue what is going on? I believe he is not a player and he is a gentle person except when stressed. I am a bit lost on this one.
Mary
isfp

Many times, I have difficulty apologizing for some reason. Maybe he's still stressed, I would just give him some time, or maybe tell him that you can't understand what's going wrong if he doesn't talk to you. You'll have to be more direct. Does he have email? Send him an email telling you what's wrong.

 

[Eagle]

Thanks. One of the facts is that the lies were pretty severe. They were even slightly threatening to me when he was out of control. I let him know that I found his approach to me very difficult to deal with at the same time reassuring him. He had some job changes going on and didn't want to share with me about it which was was okay for me. He has a need to deal with such things on his own and recreate structure and order. He is a person with high morals and is often preoccupied with what is right and wrong. Therfore it surprises me why he cannot come forward with some kind of apology. Maybe he does not need my friendship anymore and is afraid to tell? On the other hand I know he likes me.

Don't worry about the friendship.. not yet. We like to deal with things ourselves. ISTJs have trouble opening up. When frustrated we do indeed become irritable. Based on the fact of the lies the friendship is either unsalvagable or he was extremely irritated. I get the feeling that it's a bit of both in his mind but more the second (1%:99%).

 

[esfpmary]

Thanks very much. I feel much better, sigh**. Yes, i did send him an email asking whether he likes to continue our friendship or not and if we were to go on that I thought it would be best to make some adjustments and perhaps communicate/discuss these. I also have a slight feeling that he wants me to initiate contact again by keeping on phoning him and showing that I still care. He likes to be pursued somehow. But since this last situation was kind of erratic I feel it is his duty to come to me first as I do have self respect. I can't make it too easy everytime, can I?

 

[esfpmary]

Eagle and others, thank you very much. It helps.
Eagle, I believe he wasn't feeling irritable towards me but it was more like he got overwhelmed with stress and started to act irrational hence some irrational made up lies came out in the picture. I somehow felt he needed me but at the same time could not justify that for himself and wanted me out as to deal with things all by himself. Then a while later he told me off with a lie made up.

 

[d@v3]

-Is this a romantic relationship or just a friendship? If it's just a "friendship" he may have developed feelings for you and knows you don't feel the same way, making it diffcult for him to talk to you for fear of you finding out.

-He could be so upset with himself for how he acted toward you that he is afraid to talk to you and feels that he shouldn't talk to you in order for him not to do it again.

As blackcat said, I doubt he wanted to ditch the friendship, it's just that, in his mind, he was forced to (or is being forced to).

What can you do? Well, firstly, I wouldn't be trying to contact him. Why? Because if he sees you are not trying to contact him he we realize two things: 1) You are giving him time to deal with what he has to deal with, and 2) He will become curious as to why you stopped trying to contact you and *eventually* try to contact you again. Be aware, we are very patient and #2 could take a VERY long time. This also depends on how strong your "friendship" bond was/is.

As for telling you off, how did you feel about that? Did it hurt your feelings or did you just kind of ignore it and resist it? If you felt bad, tell him that in one of your e-mails if you havn't. Be straightforward with your feelings/thoughts. Don't expect him to write back immediately though.

 

[Eagle]

Eagle and others, thank you very much. It helps.
Eagle, I believe he wasn't feeling irritable towards me but it was more like he got overwhelmed with stress and started to act irrational hence some irrational made up lies came out in the picture. I somehow felt he needed me but at the same time could not justify that for himself and wanted me out as to deal with things all by himself. Then a while later he told me off with a lie made up.

I don't think it was irritability towards you. Just irritation of you and irritability at everything.

 

[esfpmary]

Thanks for all your advice. The insights on the ISTJ perspective have been very helpful. I did write him a while ago asking what was going on and that things had been so quiet. And if there was something wrong like you said worth mentioning. I also clearly explained that by no means I did want to put any pressure on him. I also asked him in case he would like to discontinue our friendship to let me know as I would understand this then and be at peace with it.
After having been quiet a long time I received his reply. It said: indeed, would like to cut off contact. I hope things go well for you. greetings

I am very sad. No explanation, nothing. Just boom.
Can anybody offer me some insights? Is this an istj way of just cutting off a friendship?
Is it best to just let go and not write again? I suppose I have no choice.

 

[d@v3]

I think it comes down to this: either you did something terrible and unforgivable (in his eyes), or he is a moron.

 

[esfpmary]

I was thinking about that if I had done something terrible lol. I hope not lol.The only thing I could come up with is that I have always been straight forward to him though in a gentle way as he easily could see it as a personal attack. I tried to be non confrontational yet at the same time wanted to bring my way of feeling and perceiving things across. Perhaps things were too confrontational but then I cannot weigh every word. But in the end I think he liked our differences and me being more outgoing and enthousiastic. But no, I don't think I did something terrible.

 

[d@v3]

I was thinking about that if I had done something terrible lol. I hope not lol.The only thing I could come up with is that I have always been straight forward to him though in a gentle way as he easily could see it as a personal attack. I tried to be non confrontational yet at the same time wanted to bring my way of feeling and perceiving things across. Perhaps things were too confrontational but then I cannot weigh every word. But in the end I think he liked our differences and me being more outgoing and enthousiastic. But no, I don't think I did something terrible.

Sounds like he's a moron then! Well, given the information you have given us about him, it seems like he needs to try to be more understanding. But, you said he was under a lot of stress and things like that so maybe he just doesn't want to be distracted.

 

[d@v3]

I was thinking about that if I had done something terrible lol. I hope not lol.The only thing I could come up with is that I have always been straight forward to him though in a gentle way as he easily could see it as a personal attack. I tried to be non confrontational yet at the same time wanted to bring my way of feeling and perceiving things across. Perhaps things were too confrontational but then I cannot weigh every word. But in the end I think he liked our differences and me being more outgoing and enthousiastic. But no, I don't think I did something terrible.

Sounds like he's a moron then! Well, I don't know about moron, but given the information you have given us about him, it seems like he needs to try to be more understanding. But, you said he was under a lot of stress and things like that so maybe he just doesn't want to be distracted.

You're conforming a little bit to make him comfortable, now he needs to do his part and conform a little bit to make you comfortable. You meet halfway and everyone is happy. It becomes a win/win situation. But it sounds like he is unwilling to do that. Sorry, but don't waste your time with him as time is the only thing you cannot replace!

 

[browneyes94]

I have a good friend who is an ISTJ. Last month he was very stressed and in chaos mode and acted very irrational towards me. He had stress at work and it seemed I really saw his raw shadow side coming out after work. He even told me a few nasty lies and basically told me off. He clearly was not himself. I somehow understand him and forgive him. We haven't spoken for a long time. I just let him be so he can put his life back in order. I have asked him in an email if he wishes our friendship to stop or if he likes to go on as I do not know if he appreciates my input. I never received a reply. Lately he is trying to contact me as I missed a few calls but he seems elusive when I call him since he does not pick up the phone and it goes to voicemail. I do not want to communicate through voicemail. After a few days this happens again and when I pick up the phone he hangs up. Is it that hard for an ISTJ to say sorry? Has anybody got a clue what is going on? I believe he is not a player and he is a gentle person except when stressed. I am a bit lost on this one.
Mary
isfp

Well i know that it's hard for me to apologize for something, even when i am wrong. I dont like apologizing :/

 

[esfpmary]

Thank you very much for your replies. All of your answers were true as after many weeks he got back to me and I could feel insecurity whether I had given up on the friendship. The difficult part for me is that he is reluctant to talk about it which I would very much like but I realise I cannot force this and don't want to put pressure. He always seems to be a bit ambivalent in his mind and seems easily triggered by my comments so I stopped rocking the boat. Right now for instance he seems to be in the push/pull mode and has stress at work so I will just play it by the ear for now and let him be in control hee hee.
But your comments certainly helped a lot.
Mary
isfp

 

[Slickness]

I have a good friend who is an ISTJ. Last month he was very stressed and in chaos mode and acted very irrational towards me. He had stress at work and it seemed I really saw his raw shadow side coming out after work. He even told me a few nasty lies and basically told me off. He clearly was not himself. I somehow understand him and forgive him. We haven't spoken for a long time. I just let him be so he can put his life back in order. I have asked him in an email if he wishes our friendship to stop or if he likes to go on as I do not know if he appreciates my input. I never received a reply. Lately he is trying to contact me as I missed a few calls but he seems elusive when I call him since he does not pick up the phone and it goes to voicemail. I do not want to communicate through voicemail. After a few days this happens again and when I pick up the phone he hangs up. Is it that hard for an ISTJ to say sorry? Has anybody got a clue what is going on? I believe he is not a player and he is a gentle person except when stressed. I am a bit lost on this one.
Mary
isfp

He is clearly in catastrophe mode. It is hard to say sorry for us ISTJs sometimes. And, I don't know about other ISTJs, but I know about myself, and I often change my mind at the last minute. So he could be wanting to talk to you when he calls, and then just as you pick up he changes his mind. I hate communicating through voicemail as well. Personally, I would just give him time. If he really wants to get in contact with you, he will. But if you don't listen to that, at least listen to this: WAIT UNTIL HE IS OUT OF CATASTROPHE MODE. HE WILL RETURN TO HIS NORMAL SELF.

Another thing you could try is leaving him a voicemail saying that you can help him deal with some stress. ISTJs don't like getting help, but will if the situation demands it.

Yet another suggestion: You could, as the second post states, tell him it's his duty to talk to you. Tell him that it's his duty to let you know whether you want your friendship to keep going or not, so that you can move on if need be. I know if I were faced with that situation, I would take the friendship

Just some suggestions.

 

[swordpath]

I can be weird and I guess a bit greedy about communicating on my own terms when it comes to things going sour within a relationship. I come around though, as I suspect your friend will too. I'd wait it out.