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[MBTI General] NTs/NFs on SJs

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
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iSFj
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2
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sx/so
I've been dating an ESTJ for some years now, and I think she's awesome. We don't really conflict much at all, don't have many fights, basically because our internal systems and life expectations are aligned, which she follows to a T, and pushes me through my days. It's funny how it works, as if what she expects is ahead of her and she follows the path she trusts is right, while what motivates me is behind me and pushing me forward. I think because of that alignment it gives us an equal platform on which to share our lives, though I know if our expectations were different, we wouldn't really get along at all.

She is great to me. She is really everything I want in a partner and romantic relationship. She's honestly my best friend and has grown to appreciate my quirky sides and humour. She makes me laugh, and she is the only person I feel safe with. I feel like there is no pressure from me to do anything but be devoted to her and our lives, and I love that. It's very refreshing to feel that someone is that devoted to me, that loyal to me, so much that all of my self-doubt is removed.

I actually like going out to bars with her. I enjoy being out in public with her. She almost acts like my buffer between my guarded internal world and the terrifying social world around me. The strength of her personality is also refreshing. She won't ever pull any punches with me, and I love that honesty with her feelings that I can't really seem to pull off, and makes it easier for me to display. If something is wrong, she tells me [or her demeanor makes it so painfully obvious I ask until she spills], she never hides what she is thinking from me.

She's just the best. Not sure how much of it is type related. I don't really think it's that important to be honest. It helps explain how she thinks sometimes, but it doesn't explain our connection and compatibility. That's all us, I think. I could be delusional, because this is an arena of my feelings that I don't really understand at all. But I don't really care if it's a delusion, because I'm having such a great time and so happy.

I think I've reached my gushiness quota for the year with this post.

Thank you for answering. I know it's not an easy thing to answer like this so I really appreciate it. :)
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
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ESFP
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9w8
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sx/sp
Thanks for the explanation. I can certainly see where you're coming from. My response to your example would have been the same(barring the reproduction part). That wouldn't stop me from asking what your own thoughts were though out of geniune curiousity.

I have no issue answering questions, but it gets annoying when it seems the conversation is one sided.
 

blanclait

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
305
MBTI Type
ENTP
INFP loves everyone. and everyone loves INFP.

and besides. its ok if most NTs and NFs hates SJs guts. There' still more SJs than NT and NF put together.
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
MBTI Type
ISTJ
INFP loves everyone. and everyone loves INFP.

and besides. its ok if most NTs and NFs hates SJs guts. There' still more SJs than NT and NF put together.

^ I'm not so sure about that. I always thought there were more NF's than SJ's? There certainly are on these forums! :doh:

And why must we "love" the INFP's? Even the ISTJ's? :huh:
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
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INFP loves everyone. and everyone loves INFP.

and besides. its ok if most NTs and NFs hates SJs guts. There' still more SJs than NT and NF put together.

Yeah, I used to think that because the only INFPs I knew were already friends of mine with whom I happened to get along very well, but I've learned a little since then.

INFPs have a nasty habit of being so incredibly conflict-avoidant that they'd rather let problems fester over months and months than actually bring them up and resolve them. Eventually they boil over and the result is far, far worse than it would have been if they'd simply had the balls to say there was a problem in the first place. God forbid they ever get into a confrontation about anything!


At least you'll never get an entire year's worth of frustration/anger all condensed into one 30-minute argument with an ESTJ! This is one thing that I do appreciate about all ExTx types--you always know where you stand with them. If shit's not working out, they're gonna let you know up front so you can either resolve it or move on and stop wasting your time.

INFPs also seem to have a nasty habit of assuming that everyone else understands feelings and emotional motivations just as well as they do. This can combine with their hilariously anti-confrontational personalities to result in some pretty ridiculous situations, where they've been bottling up problems for god knows how long and ludicrously expect you to have "just known" it was a problem. Oh, please! We're not all emotional empaths.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
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ESFP
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9w8
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Unhealthy INFPs tend to make a mess with their lives. Find a healthy one, they will talk stuff through with you and they will realize that it won't fix itself. I always talk things out with people, because I realize it will get worse like a wound that is unattended for.

Okay, *tries to re-rail this thread* do you SJs want to ask us anything? Maybe you have having trouble bonding with an N type or something. Just ask away, we're here for a reason. ;)
 

Amira

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
199
MBTI Type
ISTJ
I have no issue answering questions, but it gets annoying when it seems the conversation is one sided.

One thing that I don't like about being an SJ is how much slower my thoughts organize into words. I know often I listen to N's talking about things, either with me or with other people, and it sets off all kinds of tangents in my head. But before I can say anything it automatically has to go through a filter of "Would they be interested in this? Is this an inanely obvious thing to say? And I should also include this..." etc. etc. It's frustrating! It's also irritating because I KNOW my face and eyes do not give away my thoughts and emotions well so people would have a hard time knowing how busy my brain is constantly.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Nov 19, 2008
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ESFP
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One thing that I don't like about being an SJ is how much slower my thoughts organize into words. I know often I listen to N's talking about things, either with me or with other people, and it sets off all kinds of tangents in my head. But before I can say anything it automatically has to go through a filter of "Would they be interested in this? Is this an inanely obvious thing to say? And I should also include this..." etc. etc. It's frustrating! It's also irritating because I KNOW my face and eyes do not give away my thoughts and emotions well so people would have a hard time knowing how busy my brain is constantly.

I never really looked at it that way, my mind is always racing with ideas and linking things together. :thinking: If you went ahead and spoke your mind then you would be participating in the conversation, even if it's obvious us intuitives often miss what is right in front of our noses because we have our heads up in the clouds. Most of my little problems come from someone leaving some detail out.

The worst that could happen if it was inanely obvious would be us saying this: "Well yeah, obviously." But I'd say in a much less blunt way, I'm sure you get what I mean. I honestly like someone who I know is listening, so even if you mention something that is inanely obvious then I will be happy in knowing you are listening. If it isn't so obvious then it will give us one of those "Aha!" moments when we realize our missing piece from the idea.
 

Habba

New member
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Jul 22, 2008
Messages
988
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ISTJ
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1w9
One thing that I don't like about being an SJ is how much slower my thoughts organize into words. I know often I listen to N's talking about things, either with me or with other people, and it sets off all kinds of tangents in my head. But before I can say anything it automatically has to go through a filter of "Would they be interested in this? Is this an inanely obvious thing to say? And I should also include this..." etc. etc. It's frustrating! It's also irritating because I KNOW my face and eyes do not give away my thoughts and emotions well so people would have a hard time knowing how busy my brain is constantly.

What Amira said. :D

And why must we "love" the INFP's? Even the ISTJ's? :huh:

Because they are the deeper and more complex part of the unholy xNFP-twins. Plus they are cute. :blush:
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
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Oct 24, 2008
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5w4
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sx/sp
One thing that I don't like about being an SJ is how much slower my thoughts organize into words. I know often I listen to N's talking about things, either with me or with other people, and it sets off all kinds of tangents in my head. But before I can say anything it automatically has to go through a filter of "Would they be interested in this? Is this an inanely obvious thing to say? And I should also include this..." etc. etc. It's frustrating! It's also irritating because I KNOW my face and eyes do not give away my thoughts and emotions well so people would have a hard time knowing how busy my brain is constantly.
Sometimes I really don't see the inanely obvious:huh:, I can't really speak for any other N's here, but that's why you guys seriously save my butt time and time again at work. It's a bit embarrassing sometimes.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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One thing that I don't like about being an SJ is how much slower my thoughts organize into words. I know often I listen to N's talking about things, either with me or with other people, and it sets off all kinds of tangents in my head. But before I can say anything it automatically has to go through a filter of "Would they be interested in this? Is this an inanely obvious thing to say? And I should also include this..." etc. etc. It's frustrating! It's also irritating because I KNOW my face and eyes do not give away my thoughts and emotions well so people would have a hard time knowing how busy my brain is constantly.

That sounds more related to I than to S or J. Most Es tend to have these same thought processes out loud, which is sometimes helpful and sometimes not.
 

Shaula

Te > Fi > Ni
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Messages
608
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INTJ
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4w5
What do you like about your SJ?

I am curious because, beyond liking the SJ loyalty and sense of responsibility, it's hard for me to identify how Ns relate to SJs. I can see how SJs could like Ns but I can't see how the opposite works. Please help enlighten me.
I just like how they think and I find their different point of view interesting. The SJ ability to keep things down to earth is refreshing after listening to some wacko N going on about something morbidly abstract to the point of nonsense (more so if it's an NF). And sometimes this same quality that an SJ has will drive me nuts as I don't think they are considering the hypothetical aspects of a situation to derive their solution. Not to mention, I could not live a happy existence without an SJ reminding me to stop worrying about the big picture so much and enjoy the details every once in a while.

On a side note: ISTJs are very useful to me. When I come up with some project and want to impliment it I usually convince an ISTJ into helping me carrying it out. I create the system and give direction then they fill in the blanks is basically what happens. It almost always works out very well.

A good example of why I don't think it's too fulfilling past the friendship level is this (typical conversation with an SJ friend):

Me: So why do you think we are even here? Why are we alive on this planet?
My ISTJ friend: Well we are here to live our human lives and to reproduce.
Me: :doh:
When conversing with an SJ I feel a lack of depth in the conversation too. But I find Si to be an adorable function. When I see it in action I have this feeling of "Oh how cute!" It's one of the few things that make me feel warm and fuzzy inside... :wubbie: which is weird. :huh: So it's excusable. I know that doesn't make much sense...
 

MacGuffin

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I am curious because, beyond liking the SJ loyalty and sense of responsibility, it's hard for me to identify how Ns relate to SJs. I can see how SJs could like Ns but I can't see how the opposite works. Please help enlighten me.

Loyalty and responsibility are nothing to sneeze at. Particularly if you've been with someone in your past that had neither.

My SJ grounds me in ways that I really need at times. She can provide me with a clarity of vision that I can lose if left to my own devices. I admire her will and strength, and it inspires me to be a better person.

What I most like about my SJ is that she realizes that MBTI type can be a trap. You don't want to be the stereotype of your MBTI. You want to become well-rounded in all your attributes. So she does recognize she can be unusually rigid or conservative and tries to keep an open mind to other alternatives.

Anyone that thinks SJs are only capable of being those horrid SJs we NTs rail about (including myself) is severely underestimating the enlightened ones. A great SJ can be a more interesting and spectacular person than the average NT. Often we refuse to even believe they are SJs, trying to push another type on them.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
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Anyone that thinks SJs are only capable of being those horrid SJs we NTs rail about (including myself) is severely underestimating the enlightened ones. A great SJ can be a more interesting and spectacular person than the average NT. Often we refuse to even believe they are SJs, trying to push another type on them.

I completely agree with that.
 

d@v3

Perfect Gentleman! =D
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,830
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ISTJ
Because they are the deeper and more complex part of the unholy xNFP-twins. Plus they are cute. :blush:

^ Yes, Habba, you DO have a point there! ;)

I also agree with what Amira said. :yes:

Good post MacGuffin. :)
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Jan 7, 2009
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I always thought there were more NF's than SJ's? There certainly are on these forums! :doh:

Just on the forums ... at least we outnumber you somewhere!

And why must we "love" the INFP's? Even the ISTJ's? :huh:

Why not? We are fun too, ya know! And we sense your every mood and want to make it better.

Loyalty and responsibility are nothing to sneeze at. Particularly if you've been with someone in your past that had neither.

Agree 1000% with this statement. It's a quality I highly admire and deeply appreciate.

My SJ grounds me in ways that I really need at times. She can provide me with a clarity of vision that I can lose if left to my own devices. I admire her will and strength, and it inspires me to be a better person..

Yes, and as much as I need time to reflect on issues in my own head, I occasionally need the SJ figurative "kick in the butt" to help me take action and be in the "real world."

... MBTI type can be a trap. You don't want to be the stereotype of your MBTI.

Again, well said. Life is about growing and becoming a 360 degree person. A life partner with opposite strengths to you can be a continual source of energy and inspiration.

*aside: I love your avatar btw - Clive Owen is awesome, an actor with great depth*

On a side note: ISTJs are very useful to me. When I come up with some project and want to impliment it I usually convince an ISTJ into helping me carrying it out. I create the system and give direction then they fill in the blanks is basically what happens. It almost always works out very well.

Here's a typical Saturday morning convo at our house (I'm married to an ESTJ btw):

Hubby: What do you want to do today?
Me: I don't know, what do you want to do?
Hubby: Well, is there anything you need me to do?
Me: I was thinking about planting some more flowers in the garden today.
Hubby: I wasn't thinking about doing that today (grumbles for 5 seconds then cheers up) ... where do you want the holes in the garden? Do you need me to buy some mulch? How deep will you need the bed to be?
Me: *answers questions, hubby then proceeds to execute plan*

What is not to love about that? Honestly, it took me a few years to figure out that if I provide the plan, he will always be a partner in it. He's happy, I'm happy, we're all happy! (Please note though my hubby is not a robot and he CERTAINLY has an opinion about almost everything!)

I love my SJ. He's not the most romantic guy, and we don't have daily deep or profound conversations, but he is always there for me - loyal, honest, straightforward, hard-working and dedicated.

That's why I love you guys! I have many SJ friends too and I love that they are straight-shooters who say what they mean and mean what they say!

So there!
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
577
MBTI Type
INTP
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5
I love my ISFJ because she has the ability to know exactly what I'm thinking without me having to say anything. It's amazing how in-tune she is to (my) body language. From something as obvious to me throwing a cushion on the floor, to the subtle fiddling of a pencil. She's like a personal decoder.

I also love the way she organizes all the finicky stuff when we plan to meet up, like the time, date and ideal place to meet. I'm incredibly indecisive when it comes to that, so it's helpful that she has it all covered. Although, I hope she isn't irked by having that responsibility.

The fact that not only does she understand my warped sense of humour, she dishes it back as well. It's hard to find someone who enjoys feigning bigotry. I love the mutual making-eachother-laugh thing we have.

She's seen my "morning after" look, and hasn't ran a mile.

There are hundreds more, but I can't think of any more right now. She's just amazing. :wubbie:
 

pippi

New member
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Sep 6, 2008
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xxxx
Some of what others have said I echo. I'm an N so I'm spacey sometimes, my SJ is a reality check. He likes to do projects, so I enable that and we are both happy, he does the project and I read a book. I think Si complements my Ni very well, when I talk through something with him we can cover all the bases.

As an S he experiences things differently and allows me to see it through his eyes. I like that, it's like getting two for one, I get to see both sides of everything. He's also an F so he fills me up with his feelings. Sometimes it feels like we are at opposite ends of a teetertotter. But it is amazing when we balance it. I wouldn't have that balance with a similar type and wouldn't have grown as a person the way I have.

63579-teetertotter.gif
 
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