[MBTI General] ISFJ vs. ISTJ?

[mbeerti]

I have a friend who is definitely an IS_J. I see her profession and decision making style being more 'T' but personally, she seems to be touched/moved by things in a very 'F' way; she has more empathy than most T's I know and she can also be overly sensitive at times.

Coming from people who identify with one type or the other, what would you say the major difference is between an ISFJ and an ISTJ?

 

[raz]

The SJ temperament makes an ISxJ put a lot of structure on their life by default. It's just...effortless for them. The thing with an ISTJ, is they take it a step further. An ISTJ approaches the world with Extraverted Thinking, making them impersonal in decision making and even more "obsessed" with routine and and structure. An ISFJ, however, approaches their world with Extraverted Feeling. They make their decisions based on how it will affect the people around them, and in the process place an emphasis on harmonious relationships, rather than a logical analysis of the external world.

ISFJs can come across as extraverted because of the Extraverted Feeling they use when interacting with the world. They want to treat people right and have a higher sense of moral values. ISTJs are more cold than ISFJs, not because they're mean, but because of the Extraverted Thinking they use. When making a decision, they detach themselves from the situation.

 

[Grungemouse]

Haha. I was best friends with both an ISTJ and ISFJ.

If I'm honest, I never really observed their behaviour that much. But from what I do remember, the ISTJ was a lot more reclusive, while the ISFJ was more relational. While I was free to socialise with other people when I was around the ISTJ, who was okay with it (or just indifferent), I would find the ISFJ would slip into a jealous sulk. I believe her catchphrase was, "Oh, welcome back".

In terms of conflict, I always had to be the one to approach the ISTJ; never the reverse. Whilst with the ISFJ, she would try to patch things up fairly soon, probably due to having a need for harmony. The ISTJ had more of a masculine appearance, too, while the ISFJ gave off a more 'soft' vibe. The ISFJ often complained about some of the jokes I told, but the ISTJ would crack up and add something, much to the ISFJ's disapproval.

There was this girl in our class who had no friends. ISTJ would make snickering comments about her, and the ISFJ would feel bad and invite her to our table. So ISFJs are a lot more compassionate in comparison. ISTJs seem to have that 'cold' vibe to them, in a way. ISFJs are more mammalian.

 

[mbeerti]

Well, this is good. Thanks for the opinions and insight.

P.s. Grunge, I replied to your comment in the "Least Favorite Type" thread.

 

[Grungemouse]

I posted there? Fair enough.

 

[Snow Turtle]

IStJ (Couldn't believe he was TJ rather than FJ)
- Polite around others. There didn't seem much need to connect with people on a deeper level with simple friends.

ISFJ
- Even when it comes to strangers, he'll try to initiate conversation on a more sort of friendly level rather than polite level. Having said that he's worked in a pub for a long time.

ISTJ
- A huge difference between me and my mother. She's constantly stressed out by comparison but she seems to push herself forward in those situations, working under competitive environments.

"Look towards the good person"

Whereas I hate working with that belief. That doesn't motivate me at all to work harder, in fact it just sends me into a negative spiral of failure to do so.

Then again it could just be an individual thing rather than type. There was a personality page that once mentioned how people operate in reaction to failure:

ISTJs - Berate themselves.
ISFJs - End up feeling like failures.

 

[King sns]

Many of my friends are ISTJ's and ISFJs. I have to agree with Grungemouse. The ISFJ's are more socially aware, more warm and fuzzy, and more emotional. If I want to whine to someone I'll go to them because of their true empathy and listening skills.

ISTJ's are cool headed but sometimes distant. If you try to talk to them they listen, but aren't as ready with answers, and don't get all caught up in your problems. ISTJ's in my life are very goal-oriented and work oriented.

ISFJ's are more people-oriented.
ISFJ's tend to worry more often, IMO. The ISFJ's in my life actually worry a lot. The ISTJ's aren't as bothered by stress and attack it and move through it.
ISFJ's are motherly to me, offering hugs and warmth and kind words. The males are less obvious about being affectionate, but I still get a feeling of comfort and empathy from them.
ISTJ's are fatherly. (whether male or female) offering money and time and services, always the ones there when your car is broken down on the side of the road, or "tsk tsking" you if you've done something out of line.

 

[Cimarron]

If you're looking at the emotional situation:

I have a hard time giving words of empathy, as has been said. Even when I want to tell my friends who are feeling bad that I "feel for them", it sounds factual and kind of empty. It's just more difficult to convey my emotion.

 

[Grungemouse]

OP: Seeing as you're an INTP, I think you'll find relating to the friend more if they were an ISTJ. I got on better with the ISTJ friend outside of work situations, and approached emotional situations very much the same as Cimarron does.

 

[Giggly]

Many of my friends are ISTJ's and ISFJs. I have to agree with Grungemouse. The ISFJ's are more socially aware, more warm and fuzzy, and more emotional. If I want to whine to someone I'll go to them because of their true empathy and listening skills.

ISTJ's are cool headed but sometimes distant. If you try to talk to them they listen, but aren't as ready with answers, and don't get all caught up in your problems. ISTJ's in my life are very goal-oriented and work oriented.

ISFJ's are more people-oriented.
ISFJ's tend to worry more often, IMO. The ISFJ's in my life actually worry a lot. The ISTJ's aren't as bothered by stress and attack it and move through it.
ISFJ's are motherly to me, offering hugs and warmth and kind words. The males are less obvious about being affectionate, but I still get a feeling of comfort and empathy from them.
ISTJ's are fatherly. (whether male or female) offering money and time and services, always the ones there when your car is broken down on the side of the road, or "tsk tsking" you if you've done something out of line.

I think this is pretty accurate.

 

[Krwheel]

One thing to keep in mind is that the type is just the dominant traits of the person. Some people are very borderline and have a trait that is barely dominant. So it is possible that your friend is that way.

On another note, I'm an ISFJ, but due to the influence of some of my close relationships in my life, l've been told that I possess more logic than a typical F, but my emotions still dominate my logic, so I'm still true to my personality.

 

[d@v3]

I think I can show empathy better than I can show sympathy even if it seems empty like Cimarron said. Don't get me wrong, when I say something I mean it, it is just that there is no emotion attached to the words. Did I explain that right?

 

[Grungemouse]

I think I can show empathy better than I can show sympathy even if it seems empty like Cimarron said. Don't get me wrong, when I say something I mean it, it is just that there is no emotion attached to the words. Did I explain that right?

I can relate to that. When I'm verbalising my feelings I tend to sound all monotone, like I'm reading off a script. Even when I am being sincere, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic because of my flat tone. It's probably an IT thing?

 

[d@v3]

Well, maybe I am borderline T/F? Because I would NEVER make jokes about someone in class who didn't have any friends. In fact, I would feel bad (possibly obligated?) and probably try to talk to them and "be a friend" (depending on the reason why the didn't have friends in the first place).

But if someone (a friend or a family member) gets in a MINOR (where they are un-injured) car incident and slides off the road because they were speeding, and they call for help, of course I'm going to say something sarcastic like "good job! how many points on your liscense now?" but I would leave it at that, I would not keep saying things to make the person irritated or uncomfortable. And, I would NEVER turn them down from any help I could offer I would help them as fast as I could.

If it was a stranger calling for help in the above scenario, I would keep my snide remarks to myself and just help them the best I could.

 

[Cimarron]

I'm closer to Dave on this one. But in your example, I wouldn't go out of my way to make friends with the lonely student, because I'm bad at that kind of thing. But I would feel bad for not trying.

And yet, this is how I met all of my best friends. No one else wanted to keep them company, and I was a lonely student as well, so when they happened to sit next to me, I continued whatever conversation they started.

 

[d@v3]

Yes I agree with Cimarron, if I DIDN'T go to the person lonely person, I would feel guilty for not trying. How guilty? I don't know and it depends on the situation. It also depends on why the person doesn't have friends in the first place. I like to know a little (or alot) about a person before I start to talk to them, not sure why, it just makes me a little more comfortable to know who I am talking to.