[MBTI General] I need to do this.

[welshlass]

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyMCG0dWeQA"]xD[/YOUTUBE]

Near the end of this, it looks like the big monster thingy is giving John Cleese one from behind.

 

[Giggly]

There was that poker show on television yesterday. Some prominent people played a game and someone commented on it.

Concerning Poker I do understand that you have to watch the little things, to get something to know about your opponent. Then again besides watching closely, you can have hunches about relations in pattern of the game your opponents play. This is like you draw a road map to your opponents style within your own soul and you do not recognize it. It can get this far that you start mimicking your opponents gameplay, without even noticing it.

Of course from a logical standpoint, you will always try to grasp your opponents gameplay through analysis. This of course can kill you, if he is haphazard.

BUT and that was the frustrating thing. The commentator commented on every move someone made. He even recognized that the girl on the table was pushing her breast, when she bluffs and picking her nose, when she had good cards.

The thing is, detailed observation is necessary in Poker. But I found it embarassing and I sometimes felt ashamed by what the commentator said. That's because I do not watch myself that closely, focussed on the visible details I mean. I try to forge sense out of actions and build a relational concept of a person that is accompanied by a warm feeling, cold feeling or hopeful feeling.

But this sort of detailed mockery, because someone throws a chip to the ground, to be interpreted as he is being nervous that really ashamed me.

I lack that knack for observation of detail (most of the times).

Guess that's about it what I hate of SJ's.

Do you think that only SJ's read and interpret body language or play poker for that matter?

 

[entropie]

No of course not, I am sorry, if that came out wrong. I know a very good estp, who also can go into detailed inquiry, even my own father an entj has the knack for doing it. It is maybe a general sensing phenomena and I have to grow to live with it.

 

[EcK]

that girl, she always wants me to shave, I'm not a thing

 

[BerberElla]

Similar to TakeFive.

To others it may seem as if we're following a rule for the sake of it. However most SJs actually operate on:

"If it ain't broke, then let it be"
"Most things exist for a reason (usually for our benefit)"
"Society is running, Therefore the rules are working."
"We'll continue to follow the rules unless there's a better method"

SJs are defined as being reluctant to change, therefore you'd need to have pretty damn good evidence and reasoning for them to try a different method. Why do we dislike change? No idea. Personally I think it's a manifestation of Si.

I think I have had many successes with my SJ friend on changing her mind with the things in bold.

When i read all the type description on ISFJ I sometimes find it hard to believe she is an SJ, but then I look at how she surrounds herself and I see an SJ.

Of course there are things she won't change her mind no matter how much we "debate" it, and then I do get irritated, but in general I LOVE her way of looking at the world.

She is realistic, she is down to earth, she is a functioning member of the world and she is an anchor for me because I am none of those things.

She is also insightful and scarily intuitive when it comes to people, what is not to love about that?

 

[Chimerical]

hmmmm....

You can hang around here more often. We'd be glad to talk with you.

Has reading some of these threads helped understand us?

Um, you could start by throwing out your depressing definition of what it means to be an SJ? And then how about finding people who fit the SJ type pattern but who don't think all rules make sense simply because they exist (hint: not all SJs are rulemongers). And you could also find ones who don't think social status is a necessary goal to pursue.

Seriously, there are wonderful SJs out there, who are generous and kind and non-materialistic, but you're probably not even recognizing them as SJs because you have such a negative view of what it means to have that temperament. May I suggest you start by being friendly with some of the people here in this group, and asking them what it's like to be them rather than telling them that their temperament is so awful?

HAHA....*snicker*...hmhmhm

Similar to TakeFive.

To others it may seem as if we're following a rule for the sake of it. However most SJs actually operate on:

"If it ain't broke, then let it be"
"Most things exist for a reason (usually for our benefit)"
"Society is running, Therefore the rules are working."
"We'll continue to follow the rules unless there's a better method"

SJs are defined as being reluctant to change, therefore you'd need to have pretty damn good evidence and reasoning for them to try a different method. Why do we dislike change? No idea. Personally I think it's a manifestation of Si.

*yawn*, O.K. So I really don't have a problem with SJ's, I just don't understand them very well. But I've grasped the concept that just about any SJ I have met, if you tell them you have a negative view of them they're likely to illistrate very clearly why you're wrong.

OR: It's easier to see the best in an SJ when they're showing you they're not bad people at all, which helps me understand them better.

ISTJ's are pretty cool.

 

[Snow Turtle]

hmmmm....
HAHA....*snicker*...hmhmhm

*yawn*, O.K. So I really don't have a problem with SJ's, I just don't understand them very well. But I've grasped the concept that just about any SJ I have met, if you tell them you have a negative view of them they're likely to illistrate very clearly why you're wrong.

OR: It's easier to see the best in an SJ when they're showing you they're not bad people at all, which helps me understand them better.

ISTJ's are pretty cool.

 

[sarah]

hmmmm....

*yawn*, O.K. So I really don't have a problem with SJ's, I just don't understand them very well. But I've grasped the concept that just about any SJ I have met, if you tell them you have a negative view of them they're likely to illistrate very clearly why you're wrong.

What planet did you say you live on again? 'Cause on Earth, there are a number of non-arrogant SJs who don't believe they're always right, and who don't like arguing, and who would be hurt rather than confrontational if you told them you had a negative opinion of them. Just saying...

 

[Giggly]

Sarah

 

[EJCC]

You are giving me the creeps.

the ESTJ is pretty open to change.

the ISTJ needs to find out for himself.

the ISFJ I dont understand.

and the ESFJ is the changeinator ever. My boss is one, he always corrects my work, when I am done and he could have told me from the beginning how he wanted it, but its ok. I like his style

The "change" referred to in this post is fairly different from the "change" mentioned in the post you're responding to. Correcting people's work is a type of change that SJs (well, all Js, really) are very well suited to, but changes in ROUTINE are a whole different matter. We're a little OCD in that respect.

Rules can be questioned only if the logical validity of them hangs in the balance. Otherwise, they exist for a reason. I was telling someone yesterday, "I usually don't follow the rules if they don't make sense."

EXACTLY!

 

[EJCC]

*yawn*, O.K. So I really don't have a problem with SJ's, I just don't understand them very well. But I've grasped the concept that just about any SJ I have met, if you tell them you have a negative view of them they're likely to illistrate very clearly why you're wrong.

OR: It's easier to see the best in an SJ when they're showing you they're not bad people at all, which helps me understand them better.

ISTJ's are pretty cool.

You're being a little vague. After all, doesn't everyone want to argue their point? Don't sugarcoat. We can handle it.

Also, "illustrate" only has one "i".

 

[raz]

SJ's are even annoying as a fellow SJ. I'm rigid enough on my own. For you to impose your rigidity on top of mine is just overwhelming, and I think you're being inconsiderate.

 

[EJCC]

SJ's are even annoying as a fellow SJ. I'm rigid enough on my own. For you to impose your rigidity on top of mine is just overwhelming, and I think you're being inconsiderate.

This post really freaked me out at first, because I thought you were referring to me specifically!!! I was like "What did I say?? "

I agree, only for a different reason. Meeting other SJs makes me realize my own flaws... they irritate me for a little while, and then I realize "Oh wait, I do that too..."

 

[entropie]

the "change" referred to in THIS post, is that I didnt wanted to criticize you, but to enlighten you, for the lower peoples views on life

 

[oasispaw]

sarah hits the nail on the head here.

to chimerical: yet another ignorant post by someone bent on stereotyping at least 1/4 of the human population. bravo. :rolli:
we're all different and i'll bet you're madly in love with an SJ who you're certain is an SP.

in conclusion, open your mind, dude.

 

[raz]

This post really freaked me out at first, because I thought you were referring to me specifically!!! I was like "What did I say?? "

I agree, only for a different reason. Meeting other SJs makes me realize my own flaws... they irritate me for a little while, and then I realize "Oh wait, I do that too..."

That's part of the reason why I don't like running into another SJ. I can take it sometimes, but other times....just no.

 

[Giggly]

I agree, only for a different reason. Meeting other SJs makes me realize my own flaws... they irritate me for a little while, and then I realize "Oh wait, I do that too..."

lol yes.